I'm really negative about the hobby right now. Thinking about getting out completely.

RonBurgundy

I don't think I've ever been so down on the hobby than I am right now. A number of things have driven me to this point, and I wonder if I shouldn't bail entirely. Where to start? In no particular order.........


The market

Ebay - is there anything good about it? Higher fees, more dishonest sellers, transactions tilted heavily towards sellers (not always bad), etc.

Greed amongst collectors, dealers, etc. seems to be at an all time high. Yeah, that's a general statement but several here will know what I mean.

More trimmed cards getting into holders, nothing being done about it.

Putting up with insufferable dealers and other collectors' arrogance, tactics, etc.

The rapid decline of shows

And on and on and on. Meanwhile, I look at the vintage automobile market (my "other" hobby) and think, "I could get more into that and have a lot less hassle." Yeah, some of this S exists in that market too, but it's not a day to day thing. You buy a car, drive it or show it (or both), and that's it.

I gave a card away recently to a guy to complete his '67 set, and got a lot of compliments for that. While I (greatly) appreciated them, to me it was no big deal. That's what the hobby is to me. It's what it should be about. It's not about grinding someone for every last penny.

I'm just in a real bad way right now about the hobby.





Ron

CDsNuts

Yeah, the only thing that keeps me in is how much I enjoy the cards (or pursuit of the cards). The people suck more than ever.

reading the Dmitri Young article in SMR was cool because that's probably close to what I would do if I was making 5 mil a year, but you can really tell he's doing it because he loves the cards and not because he's trying to be a bigshot.

fattymacs

Back away from the ledge, grab a sixer and watch Major League, all will be well.

yankeeno7

It's all what you make of it. I still do it because I get enjoyment. Our society overall has declined so do what makes you happy whether it be cards, cars, or both. It's suppose to be fun so its up to you to keep it that way for yourself.

perkdog

If your collecting and your primary goal is to just have fun- nothing more- then why not just go after non graded VG cards and enjoy it that way? I would think that would cut out the hassles of haggling over prices and greed. Seems there would be much less stress involved and you would still get to enjoy the cards without much worry.

Just my 2 cents- good luck either way.

summerof68

I too have harboured many of your same sentiments. At least someone can't counterfeit or trim a classic car and you don't have to worry about someone putting a '57 chevy into a bogus psa slab made in China!!

gameusedhoop

Do it, just box it all up and mail it to.....



Just kidding, we've all been there. It will pass like it probably has before. Step away for a couple weeks, don't submit anything etc.. Maybe even take August off completely. You'll be better off for it. Come Sept. you'll either really start to miss it, or be really ready to give it all up. At least your decision won't be done it the heat of the moment, or the heat of July.

fattymacs

perkdog - I've went that route (VG cards) and I always end up upgrading. I started a 51 Bowman set looking for (and buying) VG, Now it's became an EX - EXMT endeavor.

baseballjeff

I agree withy ou on the greed part. That's what's so tough about collecting a master player set. I know I'll never be #1 in the set I am working on, and if I am lucky I'll find something new I need. Sadly, a lot people who are in this hobby for the most part are money monger penny pinchers.

Give the hobby a break, we'll still be here when your ready! But don't unload your wonderful collection, let it collect a little dust! And when you get that feeling to surf ebay to find a good score do it, and let us know what you found!

All the best,
Jeff

Allen

If you stress over your hobby, you need a new hobby. My old hobby was building ships in bottles and one day I realized that it had driven me to chain smoking and a valium addiction so I switched to cards. There are people out to screw you in anything that will make money. People talk a big game about honesty, ethics, morals but when the chips are down, they'll eat each other.

jimq112

<< <i>I too have harboured many of your same sentiments. At least someone can't counterfeit or trim a classic car and you don't have to worry about someone putting a '57 chevy into a bogus psa slab made in China!! >>



There are WAYYY more late 60s early 70s Z28s than they ever made. Changing trim tags, regrinding stamp pads on blocks, etc is more common than you would believe also.

I used to spend my $ on camaros and corvettes, and the fraud and dishonesty is just as bad. One of my car buddies lost about $40K in one of those nigerian scams when they first started.

It's not the card world, it's society.

Stingray

I felt this same way right aroung 1990. I really felt burned by the hobby companies. Upper Deck opened the presses on their BB sets as compared to 1989, at least it seemed back then. Score cranked out the 1990 football sets after producing a nice somewhat limited set. I felt like these companies really took advantage of collectors and I really was ready to quit the hobby.

julen23

that dmitri young article was total bull -ish anyway.

are you kidding me????

trying to lament his pursuit of psa 10 everything w/ an unlimited budget?

yea, making phone calls & telling people you have the pockets to pay more than anyone else... the tears are welling up as i type for dmitri & his buying agent d-bag.

J

Blackborder

You can't go wrong quitting the hobby.

fattymacs

That's it, now I'm quitting the hobby, after my auctions go off and I get some A&G to rip, and my next BBCE order comes in, and . . . . .

summerof68

Your absolutely right. I was just trying to be somewhat humorous with my response. No matter what the hobby is, if it involves money there will unfortunately be dishonesty--the vintage car industry is no exception. Just for the mentioning in 2004 I parted out a 1982 Delorean on ebay and it went exceptionally well and I met the nicest class of people. I sold every part even down to a small box of left over nuts and boltts I accumulated during the endeavor....

dizzle

<< <i>

<< <i>I too have harboured many of your same sentiments. At least someone can't counterfeit or trim a classic car and you don't have to worry about someone putting a '57 chevy into a bogus psa slab made in China!! >>



There are WAYYY more late 60s early 70s Z28s than they ever made. Changing trim tags, regrinding stamp pads on blocks, etc is more common than you would believe also.

I used to spend my $ on camaros and corvettes, and the fraud and dishonesty is just as bad. One of my car buddies lost about $40K in one of those nigerian scams when they first started.

It's not the card world, it's society. >>



I agree there's alot of that goes on with the classic car world.

originalisbest

Sorry to hear that Ron! FWIW I've really enjoyed our few dealings. The vintage car market is a fun area too -- about which I know little -- having no storage space for a vehicle! But I do subscribe to the mags and enjoy them. I hope you're able to find good reasons to enjoy cards again soon! :-)

lsutigers1973

If you want a perspective from ten years down the road, I quit the hobby in 1991 when the market was flooded with junk. I was only 18 yrs old and had amassed a monster collection that would make many grown men envious in today's market. I sold it all for $10,000 to a local collector. Today's market value is probably close to $250-300k in value (had a ton of NRMT vintage commons and semis from 1948-1979). Got back into the hobby in 2001 and regretted every day I had missed collecting in the previous 10 years. After seeing prices on eBay for EX condition 1952 Topps commons (I had about 2500 or so at one time), I wanted to just shoot myself.

The urge to quit the hobby will either pass or you will quit and come back for the love of the game and the hobby and regret the time you missed away from the hobby.

jfkheat

I don't collect cards like I used to 6 or 7 years ago. I can't remember the last time I went to a card show. I used to go to one almost every weekend. Like Ron, I got into classic cars and attending car shows. I enjoy the cars more than i did the cards.
James

Allen

<< <i>If you want a perspective from ten years down the road, I quit the hobby in 1991 when the market was flooded with junk. I was only 18 yrs old and had amassed a monster collection that would make many grown men envious in today's market. I sold it all for $10,000 to a local collector. Today's market value is probably close to $250-300k in value (had a ton of NRMT vintage commons and semis from 1948-1979). Got back into the hobby in 2001 and regretted every day I had missed collecting in the previous 10 years. After seeing prices on eBay for EX condition 1952 Topps commons (I had about 2500 or so at one time), I wanted to just shoot myself. >>



Correct me if your wrong, but arn't you the one who got all the cards for free from someones garage and havn't all the guys who collected 52's back in the early 1990's shot your story full of holes? If you are someone else, sorry my mistake.

lsutigers1973

Allen, the bulk of my vintage collection at the time was given to me. The market for 1952 commons in 1991 was limited to large collectors, usually ones with their own shops, who had large amounts of commons. The only board member that questioned me about it stated the 1952 commons were already worth a few bucks a piece at worst at that time. At the time, they did have a much higher "book value" but no one was buying them. So, yes I could have probably gotten more for the entire collection but all I was interested in at the time was a new car.

Brian48

I still frequent these boards, but in reality, I unofficially left the hobby about six months ago. Sure, I've bought a few inexpensive cards of my childhood hero Fred Lynn since, but these were few, very cheap, and in passing. Just not motivated any more.

mosaic

When money enters into one's hobby, so comes stress and mental effort and lots of baggage.

But it's so tough to not focus on the money, the "I had that card, I should've kept it!" or the "ooh, maybe I can submit that and get a 9 or 10" or the "I'll buy a case of this and sell my big pulls to recoup and then..."

I could list a thousand examples.

For me, sometime back in 1992, the money angle eclipsed the hobby angle. I was no longer collecting the cards of players I actually liked, but those of players that were blazing the league or commanding top dollar. And I, like many people, were ripping open that year's Upper Deck hoping for the next Griffey rookie... and that was before grading and eBay.

I got out cold turkey then and I never regretted it. Yes, cards have grown in value since then. Sure, I know I could've made out like a bandit if I bought more Griffeys back in the day or went nuts buying A-Rods in 1994.

Hey, life is full of woulda, coulda, shoulda...

I got back in around 2006 thanks to a combination of events, finding old Nolan Ryan cards I forgot I had, discovering Allen & Ginter at the local shop while seeking supplies, and then getting my Nolan Ryan collection graded...

Today, I buy what I like and I mostly ignore the money stuff unless it comes part-and-parcel with what I'm buying. For example, I love the Allen & Ginter set. I get jazzed when I pull money cards out of it, and I do sometimes sell them on eBay, but I don't focus on that angle. I don't care about chrome this or triple that, though I do occasionally buy a single or two if the people on the cards happen to be Ichiro, Nolan Ryan, Edgar Martinez, or Ken Griffey Jr.

I dunno... taking a break is never a bad idea. It helps to regain focus.

At the very least, figure out why you're in the hobby in the first place. Which aspects are still rewarding and hobby like to you, and which are downright work? A hobby should never be stressful.

bigfische

Read some baseball history books. It always gets me wanting to buy cards of historic players again.

ndleo

I'm not getting out, but I am scaling down a lot. I will keep my 1955 Topps All-American set and my key rookie card, but the rest are going to be sold over the next few months.

I have a 1976-77 Topps Basketball box that I am debating on. I was thinking about opening it and grading, but I think it will hold the value better as a box.

RonBurgundy

See what, lsutigers said is what I'm afraid of. I quit the hobby in the mid 90's and didn't come back until about 2003. I didn't have a big vintage collection like he did, but I regret all those years that I could have been amassing one. I feel like if I quit now, I better never come back because a day out of the hobby is a missed opportunity.



Ron

TJMAC

I hear what your saying Ron. It seems like you are caught between it being a hobby and a business. Most of us care about the business end somewhat - I know I do. I have a bundle in my collection, but I never buy looking to resell nor do I have own the highest grade stuff. I still consider myself primarily a collector more than an investor and most likely always will. I was one of the guys upset about the PSA half grade ordeal and I regret it. Even though I am very happy with PSA's solution to the issue. The hobby should be enjoyable when and if stops being so then it is time to take a break.

I recommend holding off on selling your stuff until you know you are ready to quit.

Good luck with your decision.

11235813

Ron,

Sorry to hear that you are feeling that way.

My suggestion would be to simply focus on collecting what you love and are passionate about, be it a team, player, set, or specific cards that you like. You will never go wrong with that approach.

It's the people who are focused on $$$ who are all stressed out.

I've been collecting for 30 years now, and the way I have kept myself sane is by setting collecting goals and focusing on them.

For years I've been working on just two sets (my uncracked 1971 Kellogg's set which I just finished and my 1977 Topps Mexican football set), as well as a small list of about twenty-five cards to add to my collection which I put together when I graduated from college sixteen years ago (down to just two: 1952 Bowman Mantle, 1954 Topps Gordie Howe). Now I'm working on a 1961 Fleer basketball set.

Collect with a purpose and a passion and you'll never get too unhappy....

TNTonPMS

"Sorry to hear that Ron! FWIW I've really enjoyed our few dealings"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right there sums it all up for me . . .

Maybe not walk away completely maybe just deal with the group of people that never screwed ya over and maybe simplify your system a little bit ?

Not sayin this love of ours is not like carrying a bag full of bricks either sometimes . . .just sayin .

But you'll know when it's time to lay em down , that is for sure .

StanTheManMusial

Ron,

When collecting is focused mainly on money, it's not really a hobby or fun anymore. Money is the root of all evil, and where there is money and people involved, there will be the same problems you are having right now. It's not just sportscards, it's everything in the world.

Collect what you like, not what you think will make you a buck down the road, and you should be able to enjoy things again.

Greed for the almighty dollar can only ruin people, and our hobby is seeing plenty of that right now. Sadly..

storm888

The ONLY thing that has allowed me to continue being a "collector" is the fact that
I am a VERY broad generalist. I "collect" all things of value/interest; when I get tired
of one kind of collectible, I move to another.

I never think about abandoning "collecting," BUT I change the kind of collectible that
interests me MOST, very frequently.

rexvos

<< <i>Yeah, the only thing that keeps me in is how much I enjoy the cards (or pursuit of the cards). The people suck more than ever.

reading the Dmitri Young article in SMR was cool because that's probably close to what I would do if I was making 5 mil a year, but you can really tell he's doing it because he loves the cards and not because he's trying to be a bigshot. >>



I truly love the cards too. I have met some great people in this hobby and some slime balls. I do not let it bother me, because it is the same way at work and everywhere else.

I enjoy it, if I did not I would sell out, because it is definitely not the most sound investment out there.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

I hope you can find reasons to stay. I used to get bothered by scammers (not scamming me but other people) and all the other shady things in the hobby but remembered (as previously mentioned) it's everywhere. All hobbies have issues and if your positives dont outweight the negatives....I hardly sell anything and choose my battles with scammers more wisely and I'm happy. *said Donovan as he kicks his dog*

Happy Hunting.

Stone193

Hi Ron

My advice is to get with a good friend who's got a hobby - since IMO it doesn't matter what - and talk about your feelings.

I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way - and yes - we've all had a degree of aggrevation.

This is too complicated to even try to put in a few words.

BTW, that's why I collect less cards and more items that don't cost a ton but give me fun and entertainment.

Good luck and since you're one who brings something here of value - I'ld hate to see you go.

mike

bobbybakeriv

Come on. Stop being so dramatic. Do what you like and take the time to enjoy it.

Take a break if you wish but this is not a life or death decision. This is supposed to be fun. I hope you stay with it and find your groove back. If not, I hope you find something that you truly enjoy.

themetalsign

Take a break for awhile. You'll get the bug back at some point. I've enjoyed it more since I started being a collector again instead of a seller/collector.


By the way, I'll buy you out at 5% of market value...




Dave D.

chaz43

<< <i>I don't think I've ever been so down on the hobby than I am right now. A number of things have driven me to this point, and I wonder if I shouldn't bail entirely. Where to start? In no particular order.........


The market

Ebay - is there anything good about it? Higher fees, more dishonest sellers, transactions tilted heavily towards sellers (not always bad), etc.

Greed amongst collectors, dealers, etc. seems to be at an all time high. Yeah, that's a general statement but several here will know what I mean.

More trimmed cards getting into holders, nothing being done about it.

Putting up with insufferable dealers and other collectors' arrogance, tactics, etc.

The rapid decline of shows

And on and on and on. Meanwhile, I look at the vintage automobile market (my "other" hobby) and think, "I could get more into that and have a lot less hassle." Yeah, some of this S exists in that market too, but it's not a day to day thing. You buy a car, drive it or show it (or both), and that's it.

I gave a card away recently to a guy to complete his '67 set, and got a lot of compliments for that. While I (greatly) appreciated them, to me it was no big deal. That's what the hobby is to me. It's what it should be about. It's not about grinding someone for every last penny.

I'm just in a real bad way right now about the hobby.





Ron >>




It's business, don't take it personally. This hobby/business lost it's virginity a long time ago but it is still a lot of fun to me. As I always said if it stops being fun then it's time to get out. chaz

chaz43

People talk a big game about honesty, ethics, morals but when the chips are down, they'll eat each other. >>




Very good point Iverson. chaz

storm888

"...when the chips are down, they'll eat each other."

////////////////////////

dude

Well I certainly share your frustration Ron. I've sold off most of my collection for many of the reasons you stated in your initial post. I'm still trying to rebuild one set with NM or NM-Mint cards with minimal expense.

Interestingly enough, before I got back into cards as an adult, my passion was classic cars and I owned serveral and still own a '68 Mustang convertible. There are indeed scammers in that hobby too as several have pointed out. I think the biggest problem is that old cars require a lot of upkeep unless you find a car where just about everything has been replaced. A 30 or 40 year old part will go bad at any time.

One person mentioned baseball books. I was a big proponent of collecting sports books and bought several hundred (and read just about all of them) over a 5 year period. I even wrote an article for the Houston Chronicle about it in the mid-90s. Many of the books I got new at clearance tables for 40 to 70% off. It's a bargain compared to cards and has great entertainment and educational value. Best of all, there's really no way to get scammed.

perkdog

<< <i>
One person mentioned baseball books. I was a big proponent of collecting sports books and bought several hundred (and read just about all of them) over a 5 year period. I even wrote an article for the Houston Chronicle about it in the mid-90s. Many of the books I got new at clearance tables for 40 to 70% off. It's a bargain compared to cards and has great entertainment and educational value. Best of all, there's really no way to get scammed. >>




One of the BEST Books!

EchoCanyon

Ron (or dare I say Tom),

Read The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho.

All the answers to the universe are in there.

-- Gregg

vintagechris

Actually money is not the root of all evil, it is the love of money that is the root of all evil. If you get down about the hobby, just take a break and don't sell your stuff. I can almost guarantee that you will regret it.

meuandthelot

Find some vintage

then happily pay

all is well.

Hope things turn around, Things could always be worse!
I've been in a health related funk for awhile now, so the hobby is but a thought for me.



My best,
Rich

metalmike

I have never really quit the hobby, from buying packs in 1969 to finding a box of beat up old cards at the local dump in the early 70's to selling most of my cards in 1977 before bootcamp, to buying a Reds team set at Dodger stadium in 1985 to selling at the Flea market and shows until the players strike. Then I quit buying baseball and started buying wrasslin and non sports stuff. Then I got a puter and found stuff I had only heard of. I have seperated most of my junk into 3 piles dump-sell if the price is right, and keep. The dump junk is gone and as soon as it cools down phase 2 goes into effect- sell off the if the price is right stuff, then I plan on quitting buying packs boxes ect and concentrating on errors/freaks ect and a Reds team set for my Reds collection.............................

Boopotts

Every man marches to his own beat, Ron, so you have to do what you have to do. But I couldn't help but notice that this post seems to come on the heels of your Maris RC debacle, and as a man who has been torched in any number of card deals (many ranging into the many hundreds of dollars) I can at least say this: Your chances of getting burned on a deal go down exponentially if you don't try to turn a buck flipping cards.

Almost all of my horrible deals-- and there have been many-- one thing in common, and that's the fact that I intended to sell the cards that were involved in the deal. When I look back on deals I made for the purpose of expanding my PC almost none of those turned out badly.

PROMETHIUS88

I think we have all gone thru the same thing at one time or another. I got away from cards for about 20 years and just came back about 5-6 years ago... maybe a little longer. Anyway, I started to hate it because my father owns a coin shop and in the 80's and mid 90's was huuuuge into cards; it was all about the money. I still remember the day the local distributor delivered 550 cases of 1987 Donruss wax to our garage at our house! Anyhow, deep down, I always collected cards because I liked the players... Pete Rose was my fave and I had every regular card of his by the time I was 12 in 1982. When I came back, I started working on a 70 Topps basketall set in all PSA 8.....and I really don't even like basketball. Now that I've bout got that wrapped up, I'm going to start a 53 Topps set. You know why??? Because the cards are cool looking and it's what I want to do! My point thru all this garbage I've typed is that deep down, do what your heart tells you to do! Your hobby is supposed to be something that makes you happy and you enjoy doing. If it wasn't, it would be called a "job". And dang... who needs more than one of those?
Best of luck to you no matter what you do. Looks like you have lots of well-wishers either way!

Tim

Estil

<< <i>

<< <i>
One person mentioned baseball books. I was a big proponent of collecting sports books and bought several hundred (and read just about all of them) over a 5 year period. I even wrote an article for the Houston Chronicle about it in the mid-90s. Many of the books I got new at clearance tables for 40 to 70% off. It's a bargain compared to cards and has great entertainment and educational value. Best of all, there's really no way to get scammed. >>




One of the BEST Books!


>>



I agree! I have a copy of that book myself! Now I just need to get the football one and that other book someone once showed me that has pics of all the major pre-war cards/sets.

TheCARDKid

The last 5-10 years things have changed alot. Even the last 3 years.

-Sports have changed alot since I was collecting as a kid in the 80's. That's one of the factors that's driven me out of collecting new cards. The only cards I'm interested, post '93 are basketball, the NBA has made kind of a resurgence. The Lakers, Celtics finals was genuinely exciting and interesting. If thats the direction basketball takes (which I hope it does), it'll be fun to collect some of those players.

Baseball, hockey, I don't follow much. The steroid scandal, Bonds, seems to be no point in putting yourself through agony.

The NFL I follow some, but I'm always going to think the 85 to early 90's era was better.

-The hobby in general, it's more informal. The ebay-ization, I don't know. The "record breaking prices" by the auction co's, I dont know.

-The economy, the general trend of the world, esp the last 3 years, 5 years. The culture in the last 10 years.

I've gotten more focused in the last 5 years. It's cool to get stuff you've always wanted. Just don't get run over by the scammers and theives. Don't sell anything you can't replace or would regret in a few years. And there are still deals even through all the junk.

easydoesit

Ron, I feel and have felt exactly what you feel. I have sold out and bought in three times in the last 15 years. In 1998, I sold including about 3200 1963 topps that were just absurd. Still to this day I have not seen a group of 63s in greater condition. Then the bug hit me 2 years later. I bought a small estate sale, made a little cash, but most importantly kept several tough cards, a set, and some early sports illustrated. Then three months later a huge collection just basically falls in my lap. And so it goes... Currently I am having fun again. For the first time in a while I have put the $$ on hold and enjoyed making 1968-1979 topps nrmt sets. I absolutely still sell cards but at this point I use the money for only two things - truck payment and more cards to fill those sets.

With all that said, I would not blame anyone for jumping right now. Gas, market, ebay, life in general, are all factors that are in flux right now. If I had any interest at all in gold coins, I would think that is a good place to be. Fun to collect and pretty stable right now. But I couldn't care less about coin collecting. I have never seen a single one of those presidents hit a 440 foot homer to win a game in the ninth or run for 200 yards at the only game I saw in person that year.