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I admit...I laugh when I see things like this in coin auctions on ebay...
Bochiman
Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
"Optional insurance. If you choose not to buy Insurance - Item is your responsibility once I deliver it to the Post Office. "
Especially when I see something like this on ebay with paypal as the option.
Seeing what all goes on here, and being a seller as well as a buyer on ebay, it really makes me wonder how much these guys know about ebay/paypal and actually making sure something is delivered.
This is why, when I sell, I include insurance in the shipping price, or don't charge for insurance but "self-insure" (unless the buyer wants USPS insurance and pays for it).
Especially when I see something like this on ebay with paypal as the option.
Seeing what all goes on here, and being a seller as well as a buyer on ebay, it really makes me wonder how much these guys know about ebay/paypal and actually making sure something is delivered.
This is why, when I sell, I include insurance in the shipping price, or don't charge for insurance but "self-insure" (unless the buyer wants USPS insurance and pays for it).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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Some don't know any better, AND some do it to try to get the buyer to spring for the insurance cost.
<< <i>"Optional insurance. If you choose not to buy Insurance - Item is your responsibility once I deliver it to the Post Office. "
Especially when I see something like this on ebay with paypal as the option.
Seeing what all goes on here, and being a seller as well as a buyer on ebay, it really makes me wonder how much these guys know about ebay/paypal and actually making sure something is delivered. >>
Maybe they think the buyer will have the integrity to not insist on being compensated for a loss if they decline to buy insurance?
I know- it's a stretch, but stranger things have happened.
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"It is my fault for not buying insurance," is a common buyer-sentiment on the EBAY boards.
Sometimes, once they are set straight on the PayPal scheme, they change their minds.
I know- it's a stretch, but stranger things have happened. "
It is not always a question of the integrity of the buyer, but also trust in an unkown person (the seller). Coins not received will usually result in the buyer not believing that the seller sent the coin, so in that case it is the buyer questioning the integrity of the seller. Even at times receiving damaged coins/packages the buyer may question if this was not a scam by the seller.
And yes there are buyers out there that are scamming and there is an element of trust the seller must in the buyer as well. The best way for sellers to help build trust is have the items insured.
The sad side effect is that scammers can take advantage of any system, but the insurance ends helping protect the seller to some degree against the scammer.
I know this is probably not the way lots of people would deal with this situation, but I don't care. What's legal or what's doable within the framework of PayPal's terms of use would be irrelevant to me- if I chose not to purchase insurance in the situation described, I would not hold the seller responsible if the item didn't show up.
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I tend to agree, somewhat.
But, if I bid on such a listing I would pay for the insurance.
I usually pass on any listing that has terms I don't like; or,
I might adjust my bid downward.
As a seller, I use "Free Insured Shipping." This prevents me
from EVER having to discuss the issue with the buyer, AND
allows me to collect all of the fees inside of the sale-price.
In a world where every person can trust one another this should be and would be what surely occurs. But just as there are buyers that scam so there are sellers that would too. Some sellers that decide to scam may count on the above view.
Just as a footnote I do purchase insurance if not included, if a seller does not offer it I do not purchase.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>My WAG is that a majority of sellers include the goofey lingo about insurance.
Some don't know any better, AND some do it to try to get the buyer to spring for the insurance cost. >>
If I have made enough profit off of an item, I will "spring" for insurance but I prefer that the buyer do the "springing" since insurance will often times exceed the costs to ship an item. Especially if it is over $200. ($4.60)
The name is LEE!
<< <i>But just as there are buyers that scam so there are sellers that would too. Some sellers that decide to scam may count on the above view. >>
I understand that. It doesn't change my opinion on the topic, though.
<< <i>If I don't get the coin, I'll just do a chargeback on the credit card. I feel it is the responsibility of the seller to get the coin to the buyer's doorstep. >>
Just curious... what is your responsibility regarding bidding in auctions where you intend to ignore the seller's terms?
143,000 times to laugh I guess. Too many people cheap out on the insurance and hide behind paypal
up to the buyer, as this protects both me and them.
JMHO,
Brian
Why should the seller pay to insure something? Signature confirmation is all I think is necessary on items over $250 paid through PayPal, insurance is not something I feel the need to get. I know what I am shipping and I know it is secure when I ship it, what happens along the way is something I can't control. If the buyer wants to protect their item while it is in the hands of a third party, they should have to pay for it. I surely wouldn't expect a seller to compensate me for an item I bought, didn't buy insurance on and then did not receive. Sometimes you just have to trust who you are buying from is not going to send you an empty box. And buying insurance has nothing at all to do with something being delivered; it has everything to do with getting compensated when it is NOT delivered.
And besides, if someone wants to screw you over, they are going to screw you over.
<< <i>Some people want it, some do not. I have shipped lots of packages and have only had one problem with a lost item. Some people put insurance on stuff that costs $20 when others do not on items that cost $2,000.
Why should the seller pay to insure something? Signature confirmation is all I think is necessary on items over $250 paid through PayPal, insurance is not something I feel the need to get. I know what I am shipping and I know it is secure when I ship it, what happens along the way is something I can't control. If the buyer wants to protect their item while it is in the hands of a third party, they should have to pay for it. I surely wouldn't expect a seller to compensate me for an item I bought, didn't buy insurance on and then did not receive. Sometimes you just have to trust who you are buying from is not going to send you an empty box. And buying insurance has nothing at all to do with something being delivered; it has everything to do with getting compensated when it is NOT delivered.
And besides, if someone wants to screw you over, they are going to screw you over. >>
The seller should pay because they are going to be the ones out if the buyer files a charge back because the item was received damaged.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>Why should the seller pay to insure something? >>
The seller should pay because they are going to be the ones out if the buyer files a charge back because the item was received damaged. >>
Correct. And that applies to loss, as well. Once the seller accepts money, the buyer must receive the item in good order (and within time limits to boot), or the seller is obligated to refund in full. In this regard, PayPal is only complying with FTC rules, which are of long standing in mail order, since extended to Internet sales.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
<< <i>I clearly state that my shipping charge DOES include the insurance. I prefer not to leave it up to the buyer, as this protects both me and them. JMHO, Brian >>
USPS insurance is overpriced and as a buyer I hate it when I am forced to buy it. --Jerry
<< <i>"Optional insurance. If you choose not to buy Insurance - Item is your responsibility once I deliver it to the Post Office. " >>
Reminds me of the signs you see on dump trucks "Stay back 7 gazillion feet. Not responsible for damage caused by rocks falling from load."
In business, which is what this is, the terms can be either FOB Shipping Point, or FOB Destination. The responsibility for the item at the point of ownership transfer is always set by the seller, and the buyer must decide whether or not the terms are acceptable.
If a buyer doesn't choose my *optional* insurance, then I always buy signature guarantee - or I might go ahead and insure the shipment anyway. The name of the game is to reduce the amount of trivial hassles. On ebay, chiseling a profit margin from shipping costs doesn't seem to have much utility for me.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>On ebay, chiseling a profit margin from shipping costs doesn't seem to have much utility for me. >>
Sometimes I buy insurance simply because you cannot be screwed if you have bought it. In fact, when something turns up "missing" the inconvenience falls upon the buyer who says that they never received the package.
The first thing is that they must wait 30 days before I can even file a claim, while I hold onto the money for the whole time. The second thing is that a postal inspector will show up for the investigation phase, which can be quite uncomfortable if the investigator also brings a signature of the recipient along with him.
Insured packages do require a signature, even though the shipper is not buying a signature guarantee or a delivery confirmation.
In my mind, USPS Insured is the way to go. If the package is high-dollar, then you can send it Registered Mail Insured, and save on the insurance rate as well.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Insurance is to protect the seller and not the buyer. It's the seller's responsibility to get the merchandise to the buyer. >>
Insurance is included in shipping for my auctions. Insurance protects me, the seller, from lost or damaged product.
As a buyer I expect the seller to get the product to me safely, if they do not include insurance that is their choice.
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<< <i>I clearly state that my shipping charge DOES include the insurance. I prefer not to leave it up to the buyer, as this protects both me and them. JMHO, Brian >>
USPS insurance is overpriced and as a buyer I hate it when I am forced to buy it. --Jerry >>
If the item is over $50 I require insurance. Sorry Jerry, that's the way it is.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I clearly state that my shipping charge DOES include the insurance. I prefer not to leave it up to the buyer, as this protects both me and them. JMHO, Brian >>
USPS insurance is overpriced and as a buyer I hate it when I am forced to buy it. --Jerry >>
If the item is over $50 I require insurance. Sorry Jerry, that's the way it is. >>
Over $50 is reasonable but still overpriced. I'm not charging insurance on anything that I don't send registered unless they WANT to pay for it just to try to keep my stars up.
I bought some lug nuts last week for $2.99. Shipping was $1.99 and insurance was $1.50... That's what I don't like if they are really buying insurance. I have no problem with the total price of $7.50 since the price at the autoparts store was $8 and it wasn't exactly what I wanted. If they want a $1.50 handling fee I'd rather see that. As you can probably tell, statisticly I believe I'm better off without insurance. And you would be too. --Jerry