NGC vs. PCGS for World Coins

sturmgrenadier

Most collectors and dealers that I know claim that (with a few notable exceptions) PCGS coins are worth about a half grade more than NGC coins of the same listed grade. Is it also true that this paradigm does not hold true for world coins? That is to say, NGC and PCGS graded coins are at about price parity? Thanks.

7Jaguars

Most non-US world coin collectors don't care. Those in the US try to give a little cache to "P" graded coins. I do not think it overly important and the wait time at PCGS is pretty crazy too.

JCMhouston

I've got a few PCGS and mostly NGC in my world collection, and I don't really see a difference. I could argue the grades up or down with either service, but overall I see them as being equal.

I have two submissions in to NGC now because the turnaround times are running 5-12 working days, and PCGS was running at up to 50 days a few months ago. I wouldn't mind using PCGS, I'm just not willing to wait that long.

tonyhar

I am getting increasingly fedup with the long turn around times at PCGS and am turning to NGC .
It is a shame but as I intend to start trading full time in september I need my stock and not waiting for some grader to think about looking at a submission some time in the next few months.

bidask

I am willing to wait for pcgs graded coins, the perception that pcgs coins bring more is true so.

7Jaguars

Please see my above comment. I also have noted some rather egregious errors with "P" when it comes to Brit coins, although I have always corrected the most obvious. Not sure who is doing the grading of them these days or if there has been a change, but I would be more than glad to give them a run for grading or authentication of bits from the last 200 years. Will not mention the upgrade that Ihad to push to the order of FIVE points (on an unc.) on a quite rare piece not so very long ago...

Still like them, but def. not the end all, and if you do not agree with my assessment on the Brits, then do ask several of the major London dealers if they may not agree.

MrEureka

It seems like PCGS-graded Canadian coins are the only ones that bring a premium over NGC.

As for the actual grading, the two services seem comparable.

With respect to detailed attributions, NGC wins.

And with respect to turnaround time, PCGS loses by a wide margin.

Silvereagle82

With world gold ... I'd say there is no difference. You could argue that since NGC has graded many more world coins that they should have a better reference data for grading standards. My gold coins are graded by NGC- 78%, PCGS-15% & ANACS (old small holders) - 7%.
Regarding price premiums on PCGS graded coins .... that is purely market driven and strictly a perception IMHO. I have not found this to be true in world gold, of course my circle of reference is very very small!!!
It appears to me that all the larger, highly publicised collections that have come out since I have been collecting (2004) have been graded by NGC ... that's good enough for me !!

coinkat

I think one really nees to look carefully at the coins in the plastic regardless of whether it was graded by NGC, PCGS or even the older ANACs slabs

TwoKopeiki

<< <i>I think one really nees to look carefully at the coins in the plastic regardless of whether it was graded by NGC, PCGS or even the older ANACs slabs >>



I agree with that statement. For me, it doesn't really matter what the plastic is when I'm buying the coin. However I will try to get it into PCGS slab once it's mine, because I am not a big fan of NGC's white background. I would send more coins to NGC if there was an option of them encapsulating them in NCS slabs (yes, i know, i'm weird).

Silvereagle82

<< <i>I think one really nees to look carefully at the coins in the plastic regardless of whether it was graded by NGC, PCGS or even the older ANACs slabs >>



I agree ...... This should always be Step 1

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Most non-US world coin collectors don't care. Those in the US try to give a little cache to "P" graded coins. I do not think it overly important >>



I would put myself in this majority. I give PCGS a tiny edge, but it's not that big a difference to me. I like PCGS' capsules better, and having the name of the #1 grading service on your holder is always nice, even if it really doesn't amount to any substantial difference when you're not discussing US coins.

coinkat

Okay... I will just say what I really think

The older ANACs graded coins in the 1992-2001 time frame are worth looking at. Unfortunately, there is some inconsistencies, but there are coins graded very conservatively during this time. The problem is that the news of afew dogs that where overgraded captured collectors attention more than the ones that were appropriately graded... bad news always travels faster than good news.

NGC does a decent job, however, I think they can be inconsistent with certain countries. I think case and point may be Canada as ICCS and PCGS appear to be more acceptable among Canadian Dealers. I don't know if the PCGS Registry set has an influence or not... personally, I tend to seriously doubt that it does but I tend under estimate the PCGS Registry.

PCGS seems to be doing alot things well, but Rome was not built in a day. I believe that the biggest problem is that the World coin market is different and the emphasis on condition rarity has not reached the maximum interest point among the majority of World collectors which is a sharp contrast to the US market. I suspect this will change for various reasons including but not limited to valuations, artistic and historic merit and at some point condition rarity.

OnlyBuffalos

I have found NGC and PCGS to have somewhat different standards in the grading of non-USA copper coins. This difference also exists in USA copper coins. PCGS appears to be about a point tougher particularly so in Red and RB designations.

PCGS is also quite a bit stricter in the grading of China and Hong Kong coins especially so for Panda silver and gold coins.

Turnaround times for World coins is a major problem for PCGS customer satisfaction which in my opinion costs PCGS a great deal of business. I beleive the two biggest areas of growth for TPGs are modern coinage and world coinage. Modern coinage would appear to be the easiest and quickest area to grade and perhaps PCGS is focusing on it as it as a result.

Have to agree that PCGS graded coins almost always sell for a premium versus similarly graded coins by its competitors.

Doogy

I think looking at market trends, the following has been seen over the past few years:

- PCGS and ICCS bring more money when talking about Canadian coins.

- The super rarities are almost exclusively in NGC plastic, and seem to be more accepted as such. Millennia bears this out especially, as many former PCGS 'top pop' coins were
cracked out and submitted to NGC for auctioning in Millennia

- only 3 PCGS world coins have sold for six figures in the last 5 years, compared to the majority of six figure coins that have been sold in NGC plastic, to include the only 7 figure
world coin ever sold, which resides in NGC plastic.

- The rarest Ancients ever sold at auction, and the ones which realized the highest prices in history, all were graded by NGC.

- PCGS does tend to lend a more strict eye to world copper it seems, than anyone else.

- NGC offers the multi-slab, will slab many medals and larger thalers. PCGS's slab is very good optical quality, and preferred by some, especially with small coins that seem to get lost in NGC's white background (although NGC is slated to introduce a new slab, with state-of-the-art anti-counterfeiting measures this fall).

- PCGS's turnaround time is pitiful, while NGC's is very quick service generally.

1jester

I don't know why it is exactly, but in Poland (can't speak for the rest of Europe), NGC is most definitely preferred over PCGS by dealers and collectors alike.

IloiloKano

I believe PCGS has been feeling the heat from it's long turn around times, but I also believe that might have caused them to speed up the process to the point of slapping low grades (just to be safe - from their perspective) or being too quick to state a coin has been cleaned (again, just to be safe), since I just received notification my eight coins are graded and being shipped, and I am extremely disappointed in the results. Perhaps sour grapes? Maybe, so I will wait until I have the coins back in hand before making any further speculative charges.

Here's one example. I sent in a coin that could have been a proof, but I wasn't sure, (strongly suspected - but not certain), so I put down the PCGS number for the regular issue, expecting that if it was a proof, they would simply slab it as such, (they are the experts, right?), and they have much better equipment to make the call. However, a silver proof's surface will be mirror-like (as this coin appeared to my eyes) but a regular strike in uncirculated condition should have a different appearance. While I could not say for certain the coin was a proof, my eyes are indeed good enough to notice hairlines indicating the coin was cleaned, and if I had any doubt whatsoever, I would not have wasted my time with submission of that coin. I would have submitted another coin as part of my 8 free certifications. Still, it was stated to be "cleaned". I suspect some junior grader didn't see frosty luster and labeled it cleaned in order to be safe, instead of investigating the proof alternative.

When I get it back, I will take the time to photograph it under various lighting conditions with a macro lens, and I'll spend whatever time it takes to get extremely good (and large - huge even) images, which I can then view on my computer, and if I still don't see any evidence of cleaning, I will send it in as a proof to NGC to see what they have to say.

My present thought is that I will get confirmation of my current suspicions, and I'll share whatever I discover, even if that means eating crow and admitting my own foolish error.

In the words of the theme song to Monk, "I could be wrong now, but I don't think so".

7Jaguars

IK - do be careful with PCGS and designations such as Proof or pattern status as they are not always the most reliable in this.

IstilllikeZARcoins

My thoughts, and I should add that I didn't read the above posts because I did not want to be influenced in any way, are that NGC can grade fairly widely of the mark. PCGS grades more consistently in my opinion.

Interestingly enough most ZAR collectors prefer NGC slabbed ZAR coins. I am not sure why this is maybe because XF grade coins have a chance of appearing with an AU label.

The thing to do of course is to buy the coin and not the slab. A lesson which I've learned through experience.

MyWorldCoinTypeSet

I buy PCGS exclusively. I don't like the white NGC backgrounds, and don't have the time / desire to cross coins. And, I've seen too many Canadian coins in NGC holders that I consider overgraded.

Yes, I know ... Buy the coin, not the holder. Well, this collector has chosen to buy coins in PCGS holders.

dizzlecc

If the ebay current auction numbers are any indication, NGC is preferred.

I do think the turn around times are a critical factor to consider when selected to services of similiar quality.

coinkat

I thought I should clearify my comment with respect to NGC and Canadian coins. I think NGC has been inconsistent undergrading and overgrading... mostly undergrading from what I have seen.

zeebob

I send all my coins to PCGS. I like the slab better. I think even for darkside coins, most of my buyers are in the US and I see PCGS bringing a slightly higher premium. But I have to say, objectively, I doubt it makes a difference. Both companies are very good.