Has PCGS changed its grading standards?

Monstavet

With all of these new, never before seen grades coming out of PCGS of late, I have to wonder....
1) Has PCGS changed (a.k.a. lowered) its standards for assigning grades? Will we start to see even more of these once unheard of grades? Will the coveted PCGS PR70DCAM again begin showing up?

-OR-

2) Are collectors / dealers getting better at choosing coins for submission? Obviously, Wondercoin has a great eye for coins, and if anyone could pick out a potential MS69 state quarter, it would be Mitch. Are people just submitting better quality stuff?

Lil ole me hasn't seen any of these new amazing coins - do they truly look better than their counterparts in one lower grade? If they do, great! Give them the higher grade! If not, one has to wonder about a change in grading standards. I personally suspect that #2 plays more of a role than #1, but it is fun to think about, in a mischievous, party-pooper sort of way.

keithdagen

Monstavet,

I subscribe to theory #2. For the most part, the killer coins are dated 2000 & 2001. The Mint changed their process in some way and the Mint set coins for both years were above the usual.

And, I have seen 2 MS-69 Lincoln cents, and to answer your question, yes, there is a difference.

Keith

dbldie55

I would think that Mint Sets would be the source of the best coins, and there are already 3 MS68 Tennesee quarters listed. What will these numbers do when the Mint Sets come out?

The second MS69 quarter looks to have been sitting in a MS68 holder a few days ago. Since this is the PCGS invitation week for dealers, I would think that is how it was made yesterday, and already for sale today.

keithdagen

dbldie55,

Hard to say what happened with that MS-68 number. A lot of times with moderns, the problem is that the proof coin is entered into the system with a MS number, causing the label to say MS-68 instead of PR-68DC. Seen this happen several times, once with a 1964 Kennedy that would have brought 4 or 5 figures had it really been MS.

Keith

dbldie55

Would be a huge coincidence that both numbers changed at the same time (at least within 1 hour of each other, which was the time between changes I saw)

keithdagen

Only way to know for sure would be to see what happened to the PR-68DC numbers as well.

Maybe we can get Mitch on one of these threads to find out if the coin is an original submission, a crackout, or an upgrade. I, too, am curious to which it is.

Keith

wondercoin

Monsta: I had mentioned on another thread that (2) PCGS-MS68FS nickels were graded this week, when only -1- had been ever graded in 15 years!! Well, I erred!! Actually -3- PCGS-MS68FS nickels were graded this week!! 1 in 15 years and 3 in one week!! Is this changing standards? Well, if you examine these nickels (I have 2/3 right here) you find that these coins are incredible specimens deserving of the MS68FS grade!! And, I understand the 3rd one they did this week (1941(d)) in 68FS is great as well. My sense of it is that the making of these (3) coins actually fueled interest and I suspect will result in HIGHER prices, imho. The second NY(p) quarter in PCGS-MS69 is a super coin as well and sold in a matter of hours. There is also a small waiting list of collectors for the PA(p) state quarter in PCGS-MS68 that was made yesterday.

Since I do not own either of the NY(p) quarters in PCGS-MS69 at this time, but both are owned by collectors who frequent this forum, I will leave it up to the new owners of the coins to discuss their pieces, the history surrounding them, etc. Wondercoin.

keithdagen

Mitch,

Do you know if the second MS-69 NY-P was a raw submission or was previously slabbed a MS-68 and upgraded? You had mentioned during the first one's offering that it was an original piece.

Thanks,
Keith

wondercoin

Keith: I know the story behind the 2nd MS69 NY coin, but, someone else owns the coin at this time and is a frequent visitor to this board. If the owner wants to make a statement to the board, that would be fine. If the owner wants me to post a scan of the coin right now, that would be fine too-I'd love to But, the collector who wrote the check for the coin today is "da man" who calls the shots on any further public information on this piece. Wondercoin. P.S. I retained book and movie rights to the drama "MS69"

CarlWohlforth

It looks like there is a new '39 proof Jefferson reverse of '40 also a new '40 reverse of '39 in highest grade PR 67. This makes the new pops 5 and 4.

Perhaps some collections are getting slabbed and sold?

supercoin

Nobody's answered the original question yet:

Has PCGS changed (a.k.a. lowered) its standards for assigning grades? Will we start to see even more of these once unheard of grades?

My answer is I don't have a clue if that has happened in the case of these two quarters.

But the more important fact is that PCGS standards have changed in the past, both explicitly and as a result of simply being human, and will certainly continue to change in the future.

So, if you're spending $10K on a low-pop condition-rare coin that is worth just a few bucks in readily obtained condition, it would behoove you to make sure that:

1. You really agree with the grade, and:
2. You'll still be happy with the coin if some other "unworthy" examples make it into the same holder as yours in the future (inflating the population and likely deflating the price), and:
3. You'll still be happy if PCGS goes out of business (because currently the same coin would bring a fraction of the price in any other services' holder)

OR,

1. You're filthy rich and just want that number, man.
2, 3, etc. N/A

braddick

I retain the movie and book rights to the "MS69" story...
Mitch, I just punched up MS69 and I'm taken to a porno site.

Dennisl

Is is true that PCGS was laying off graders over the last couple of months due to a slowing of business partly caused by their tighter and stricter standards while NGC was hiring more graders to keep up with their increasing submissions ? This is what a couple of PCGS dealers have verbalized to me. It wouldn't be the first time that the standards have changed.