Are the prices in the Big Auctions Houses real? Look.
SIRAMEDO
Posts: 80
While looking for some Toleteros prices, I found the following:
Leland's April 2008 Internet Auction
Lot #13: 1949-50 Toleteros Puerto Rican Card Rogelio Perez SGC 60
certificate: SG, LLC 1256044-006
Price: $119.50
Ebay's Auction July 05, 2008
1949-50 Toleteros Rogelio Perez Baeball Card SGC 60 EX
certificate: SG, LLC 1256044-006
Price: $34.67
Same card, same certificate, two very different prices , two months later.
Why buying this card and sell it two months later?
Is something wrong here or I'm wrong?
Siramedo
Leland's Auction
Ebay's Auction
Leland's April 2008 Internet Auction
Lot #13: 1949-50 Toleteros Puerto Rican Card Rogelio Perez SGC 60
certificate: SG, LLC 1256044-006
Price: $119.50
Ebay's Auction July 05, 2008
1949-50 Toleteros Rogelio Perez Baeball Card SGC 60 EX
certificate: SG, LLC 1256044-006
Price: $34.67
Same card, same certificate, two very different prices , two months later.
Why buying this card and sell it two months later?
Is something wrong here or I'm wrong?
Siramedo
Leland's Auction
Ebay's Auction
I am always buying 1972 Puerto Rican League Stickers, 1948-49 Toleteros, 1949-50 Toleteros and 1950-51 Toleteros. e-mail pajoyeros@coqui.net
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Comments
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
I am shocked that there is such apathy about this issue...on, of all places, this Board!
Whew.
Nick
Mickey71
there are a lot of rich people who either don't have the time to troll around on ebay or distrust ebay. they get a nice catalog from several companies maybe 20 times a year. they sign on put in their max bids and either win or lose. they write their check and move on. they don't worry about feedback, mysterious sellers, things getting lost in the mail etc. remember they are RICH. time is money and they convienience is more important to them.
theory two. a lot of this stuff is recylcled. i mean a LOT. stuff goes from one auction house to another, or onto ebay. many people trying to make a buck flipping. a lot of the big lots are broken up and dispersed on ebay.
<< <i>I have always wondered the same thing. I cant understand why the major auction chains get so much more "bang for the buck" than Ebay does.... >>
.........Ebay doesn't have the "relationships" to get flips changed to different cert #'s to make it seem like a different card when a buyer doesnt pay for a card.
<< <i>...Ebay doesn't have the "relationships" to get flips changed to different cert #'s to make it seem like a different card when a buyer doesnt pay for a card.
What might one be suggesting?
<< <i>i am not disputing anyone's theory, but how about these two.
there are a lot of rich people who either don't have the time to troll around on ebay or distrust ebay. they get a nice catalog from several companies maybe 20 times a year. they sign on put in their max bids and either win or lose. they write their check and move on. they don't worry about feedback, mysterious sellers, things getting lost in the mail etc. remember they are RICH. time is money and they convienience is more important to them.
theory two. a lot of this stuff is recylcled. i mean a LOT. stuff goes from one auction house to another, or onto ebay. many people trying to make a buck flipping. a lot of the big lots are broken up and dispersed on ebay. >>
exactly, just like the 1914 Cracker Jack Dent Keppel set....people buy huge lots or sets and then think they can sell them individually and make a profit...
Baseball cards are a very thinly traded commodity...
<< <i>theory two. a lot of this stuff is recylcled. i mean a LOT. stuff goes from one auction house to another, or onto ebay. many people trying to make a buck flipping. a lot of the big lots are broken up and dispersed on ebay. >> >>
Also keep in mind many eBay & auction house buyers flip cards, sets & lots
not so much to sell and make a huge profit, but to raise capital so they can
buy other cards which may interest them more at this time.
I've seen many collectors & dealers lose a few $ now & then to pick up stuff
that is more desirable.
Remember, we don't own these cards (& collectibles) we just hold them for awhile
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
that may be true, but once they become rich it's a different story. i don't think bill gates or warren buffet goes to sav-a-lot for their can goods or spends time clipping coupons.
when it comes to cards some people with a lot of money will spare nothing to get to the top in a hurry, and make some lucky sellers very happy doing do. this is just a hobby to them and they don't want to look for bargains. they want what they want-NOW, regardless of the price. they don't want to wait.
if anyone has tried to bid on a high grade 1966 cards in the past months you can see that mr. spence has come into that year like a hurricane and upset the staus quo.
check out one of his most recent purchases: the previous four went for the following $227.57, $217.50, $124.49 and $324.
This much for a 1/5 common.
if i had limitless resources i would probably be as care free as some of these buyers as well.
Then do it for different cards.
And see which tend to be higher (sometimes alot higher)...ebay or the auction co's...
<< <i>It's called shill bidding by auction house employees. >>
I know for a fact that this is a common practice and does happen. A friend put his entire collection up for sale, we are talking 6 figures here, and was invited to the auction house headquarters for the auction, airfare, limo, hotel all paid for. He was pulled aside by one of the "management", and given a bidder #, a list of item #s, and bid amounts to place, he was then shown an empty office with a phone. There were some big $$ bidders that had place some ceiling bids that they wanted to "maximize". They knew he would do it, as it was also being done to his items. An "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" moment.
With auction houses it is all about $$$, and when you are taking it from both the buyer and seller and there is no oversight, then games will be played.
you get your items puffed up plus a free trip. i hope it wasn't goodwins. i live a couple of miles from him and a trip to a st. louis suburb doesn't thrill me.
BTW, how would you like to be a bidder there?
'Nuff said.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
until i get more details other than a friend of mine.... i am not going to compare these people to bank embezzlars. what is the worst case scenario here? you get a card a for the max price that you put in. it may not be a bargain, but no one embezzled anything. if someone puts in their max bid early in an auction they aren't very concerned with money. if these allegations are true do i condone them? absolutely not, but no one has ever forced to me pay more than i wanted to at any auction house. i have won some items and lost many, many more.
another queston-do they only bid up people who have put in max bids or do they get into bidding wars with others and get stuck with the item?
You are not going to get the proof you are looking for. No one is watching over any of these businesses. Just to add, I have found that most high end collectors are very knowledgable and spend their money wisely. This is where I draw the line with a card such as the 62 Cepeda-Maris card in an 8 for 5,000--- high end collectors are not looking for that card. How does a card like that reach almost $5,000. It's not rare, not that popular, no spike in interest of either player, etc. Let me get very specific: I will use the Bill Gates theory that was brought up==== this card is the canned goods at the discount store. Major high end money guys are not buying that card for $5,000, they don't even want it. Lower end money guys are buying the one on ebay at the same time for $150. Another example is this===some people don't want to take a chance with the whole ebay thing because of alot of bad sellers etc. So this particular (bidders) remember it takes 2 to reach this level, would not buy on ebay for $150 because of the risk, but would put max bids of $5,000 and the other bidder bid up to $5,000 because he wanted to avoid the ebay risk also. Also, I just watched Elvis sing Suspicious Minds in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I hear he's probably going out on tour in the Fall.
my question is what kind of collector would put out such a bid of $5000 at 33 times its Ebay selling price? is the person drunk? did he type in a wrong amount?
they are concerned about having $150 problems on Ebay but they are willing to go $4850 more at an auction house. using the 33 x theory you could get ripped off 31 times on ebay and still be better off on if the 32nd time came out well.
when elvis comes to town i hope he doesn's sing in the ghetto. it always makes me cry.
I don't think you are getting what I'm trying to say. You mentioned Bill Gates and the Ebay theory and I gave my opinion on those theories. My answer to the question as to who bids the 5000 on the same card even if the transaction goes bad 33 times on ebay they still don't lose money===nobody. That's what I'm trying to say. I do not believe all of the bids are legit and that nobody regulates these type of businesses.
<< <i> no one has come on this board with names of auction houses, dates, names of people etc committing these acts.
>>
Frank
actually they have, the thread just goes poof so fast, no one has a chance to read it
Im surprised this thread hasnt suffered the same fate to be honest. Maybe everyones busy setting up at the national or something.
PM me and Ill give you some details and links.
thanks again for all the 78's and 79 topps man!!
joe
Steve
Bottom line no one forces people to put max bids in, however, if you go by the whole "have too much money too care rule" do you really think these guys are staying up to 2am or 6am when the auctions are into its 5th hour of extended action just to put their "final" bid in? Makes more sense that these guys say put a huge over the top bid in to be sure they get the item and get run up during this overtime.
By the way,Elvis is dead. An alien from Roswell told me so....
They just call it something else, such as "employees are allowed to bid", etc.
Because all the bids are hidden from the public, there is no way for you or me to know the difference.
That is why they never get any of my business.
Steve
Please.
Funny, on ebay, how many sellers consistently get as many "record breaking sales" and "record breaking prices"?
If you stand back from it, I don't even know what the word is, maybe you can't use it on a public forum....but let's see...
-On one side are the auction companies. And they consistently tout "record sales", prices.
-And Ebay, flat or incremental increases.
Hmmmmm.
Maybe all the millionaires only use auction companies and don't like ebay.
They have some great lots, I'll give them that (i.e. in the current Mastro auction). But have the auction co's ever explained why they consistently get higher prices than ebay. They seem to be in their own universe.
.....poof....
Even if they were shilling their auctions before, I doubt they'd be ballsy enough to do that sort of thing while the FBI was looking in. Of course, that doesn't mean a consignor can't have a friend bid up his stuff, just like people do on ebay, but that would be impossible for an auction house to prevent.