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Ottawa CNA 2008 report (long with photos)
1960NYGiants
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This year’s CNA convention in Ottawa celebrated the 150 years of Canadian decimal coinage, the 100th Anniversary of the opening of Canada’s 1st mint Ottawa, the 50th year of Canadian Municipal Trade tokens, and the 50th year of Canadian Tire Coupons.
For me the show started with the President’s Welcome Reception Wed evening. Many of Canada’s most well known dealers, collectors, and writers were in attendance. It was a pleasure to share (listen) in conversations about the coin collecting fraternity in Canada. Most were upbeat about the hobby.
All day Thursday was committed to attending the educational symposium. This was a series of 7 talks / presentations regarding numismatics in Canada. Subjects included a review of the just released, 2 volume set, of The Canadian Numismatic Bibliography. This work took about 12 years to complete and lists / indexes just about every written article, book, periodical, etc. known regarding Canadian numismatics. There is a wealth of info about Canadian colonial tokens that I did not know existed. Our own forum member Rob Turner (Bosox) presented his work on the Canadian 1859/8 large cents. One presentation discussed the recent influx of Chinese made copies (modern counterfeits) of Rare Canadian coins such as the 1921 5c and 50c, 1875H 25c, 1859 brass cents. The speaker had several samples. All were purchased as “copies” that is the photos in the listings showed the word “COPY” but none of the coins rec’d had been stamped. The speaker related a story about a well-known dealer being fooled by these modern fakes to the tune of several thousand $’s. The fakes do not have the correct die markers that the real coins do.
Thursday midday had a book fair. I was able to add 11 new titles (editions) to my library. I have lots of reading for the next few months.
Thursday evening I attended a reception at the Royal Canadian Mint. Tours of the mint were provided. Ottawa is only producing collector coins now. All regular business strikes are produced at the Winnipeg mint. And yes, the million dollar gold coin was on display – now worth about $3 million. So far all 7 or 9 coins produced have been sold with one in the museum. Word is one buyer bought two. Cliff Mishler and (a female ANA director whose name I’ve forgotten) presented the Mint master with an award from the ANA honoring the 100th Anniversary of the Mint.
Friday saw the opening of the bourse. There were 69 tables for 51 dealers in a very spacious room. There was plenty of room at each table for visitor chairs and wide aisles for the folks to walk by. Around the periphery were about 30 tables of exhibits which included the only known set of British Columbia $10 + $20 specimen strikes still in private hands (The Belzberg set). The Newfoundland club displayed a complete set decimal coinage. This set was made up of several members’ private collections and represented the finest known example of each date and mint for the issue. Talk about numismatic ecstasy! The MS67 + 68 Vickie halves are KILLERS. That set must have a value in excess of $5 million.
I bought several pre-confederation tokens to fill holes in my set. I also picked up a lead or pewter re-strike medal for The Battle of Lake Erie 1813 by Moritz Furst. The obverse depicts Oliver Hazard Perry, Commander of the American forces. The reverse has a scene of the Naval battle. It is 63+ mm and 120 grams.
Friday afternoon was the Newfoundland club meeting. A lively discussion ensued on the availability of EF-AU examples and how long it would take a collector to put a specific set of one denomination together. The major news from this meeting is that the club will be taking on the updating of the CCN Trends of Newfie coinage values. The when and how is yet to be determined but three prominent members, one Newfie specialist dealer, and the Trends editor will work together on updating pricing and possibly restructuring the data to include more varieties, grades and color designations (Red, RB, brown).
Friday evening I attended a reception at the Canadian Currency Museum hosted by the Bank of Canada. The museum was open for attendees. Its main display this year is relevant to milk tokens. However the heart and soul of the museum is the National Coin and Currency Collection. On display in special jewelers cases is at least one of every Canadian coin including the 1921 50c, lead strikes of the 1911 silver dollar, and examples of many rare tokens. All of the pieces are very high-grade examples but they were all “conserved” and lacquered. The lighting was poor so I was not able to get decent photos.
Saturday was split between the auction, CNA general meeting, the CATC meeting, and the bourse floor. For those of you that have the 6th edition of Charlton’s Canadian Colonial Tokens, on the bottom of page 189 there is a comment about a Taylor example of a token selling on eBay certified as silver-plated. Well, I bought that piece back in 2003. I brought it with me for the club meeting for show and tell. Immediately, two researchers asked to examine it. Their findings are incomplete at this time but they both agree that it is not what ICCS certified it to be. The weight is only 16.32g instead of 23+ and under a microscope the surface does not look plated. It rings OK but not like a plated piece would. It is also medal alignment vs. coinage. Instead they believe it to be a pewter example of the original striking and thus scarcer than originally thought. They will perform more research.
NEWS bulletin: The CNA has been granted the title of ROYAL per decree from QEII and is now to be known as The Royal Canadian Numismatic Association. The membership vote was approx 80% for vs. 10% against with only 2/3 needed to pass. I am now a life member in the RCNA, which I think is pretty cool. Imagine that: a Connecticut Yankee in Queen Liz’s court … eh-hum … well, you get the idea.
On the bourse, I was looking for 5c pieces to fill holes in my sets and came away with 6 purchases including this very pretty steel blue and rose toned 1888 fish-scale.
I won 6 lots in the auction including an R9 Lees 24 PEI Ships token and a nice EF40 1903 10c. I watched many scarce and rare tokens fetch some high prices. Full red copper also went for mucho bucks. An uncertified 2006 small cent, no logo, no mintmark, but still magnetic went for $600+ against a $200 estimate to an eBay bidder. But the MS64 1921 5c only pulled $27k against a $40k estimate.
I missed Cliff Mishler’s talk on collecting Canadian coins in the 1950’s + 1960’s from an American perspective. I also missed the banquet again … darn auction goes too long.
Sunday morning the bourse was a ghost town. By 11am most dealers were packed up. I was able to find a hanging sheep token from Lancashire Rochdale, D+H 140, in a half off box. Edge reads “Payable at the Warehouse of John Kershaw” Not bad for $10, eh?
All in all, this was a very good convention for me. I enjoyed meeting up with old friends and making a few new ones. And as usual shopping thru all of the dealers’ cases and realizing what is available for collectors of any means. Now that I have my newly acquired treasures at home, it’s time to catalog, study, read, and prepare for 2009 in Edmonton.
edit for spelling and to correct Mr. Perry's allegiance (thnaks Newsman)
For me the show started with the President’s Welcome Reception Wed evening. Many of Canada’s most well known dealers, collectors, and writers were in attendance. It was a pleasure to share (listen) in conversations about the coin collecting fraternity in Canada. Most were upbeat about the hobby.
All day Thursday was committed to attending the educational symposium. This was a series of 7 talks / presentations regarding numismatics in Canada. Subjects included a review of the just released, 2 volume set, of The Canadian Numismatic Bibliography. This work took about 12 years to complete and lists / indexes just about every written article, book, periodical, etc. known regarding Canadian numismatics. There is a wealth of info about Canadian colonial tokens that I did not know existed. Our own forum member Rob Turner (Bosox) presented his work on the Canadian 1859/8 large cents. One presentation discussed the recent influx of Chinese made copies (modern counterfeits) of Rare Canadian coins such as the 1921 5c and 50c, 1875H 25c, 1859 brass cents. The speaker had several samples. All were purchased as “copies” that is the photos in the listings showed the word “COPY” but none of the coins rec’d had been stamped. The speaker related a story about a well-known dealer being fooled by these modern fakes to the tune of several thousand $’s. The fakes do not have the correct die markers that the real coins do.
Thursday midday had a book fair. I was able to add 11 new titles (editions) to my library. I have lots of reading for the next few months.
Thursday evening I attended a reception at the Royal Canadian Mint. Tours of the mint were provided. Ottawa is only producing collector coins now. All regular business strikes are produced at the Winnipeg mint. And yes, the million dollar gold coin was on display – now worth about $3 million. So far all 7 or 9 coins produced have been sold with one in the museum. Word is one buyer bought two. Cliff Mishler and (a female ANA director whose name I’ve forgotten) presented the Mint master with an award from the ANA honoring the 100th Anniversary of the Mint.
Friday saw the opening of the bourse. There were 69 tables for 51 dealers in a very spacious room. There was plenty of room at each table for visitor chairs and wide aisles for the folks to walk by. Around the periphery were about 30 tables of exhibits which included the only known set of British Columbia $10 + $20 specimen strikes still in private hands (The Belzberg set). The Newfoundland club displayed a complete set decimal coinage. This set was made up of several members’ private collections and represented the finest known example of each date and mint for the issue. Talk about numismatic ecstasy! The MS67 + 68 Vickie halves are KILLERS. That set must have a value in excess of $5 million.
I bought several pre-confederation tokens to fill holes in my set. I also picked up a lead or pewter re-strike medal for The Battle of Lake Erie 1813 by Moritz Furst. The obverse depicts Oliver Hazard Perry, Commander of the American forces. The reverse has a scene of the Naval battle. It is 63+ mm and 120 grams.
Friday afternoon was the Newfoundland club meeting. A lively discussion ensued on the availability of EF-AU examples and how long it would take a collector to put a specific set of one denomination together. The major news from this meeting is that the club will be taking on the updating of the CCN Trends of Newfie coinage values. The when and how is yet to be determined but three prominent members, one Newfie specialist dealer, and the Trends editor will work together on updating pricing and possibly restructuring the data to include more varieties, grades and color designations (Red, RB, brown).
Friday evening I attended a reception at the Canadian Currency Museum hosted by the Bank of Canada. The museum was open for attendees. Its main display this year is relevant to milk tokens. However the heart and soul of the museum is the National Coin and Currency Collection. On display in special jewelers cases is at least one of every Canadian coin including the 1921 50c, lead strikes of the 1911 silver dollar, and examples of many rare tokens. All of the pieces are very high-grade examples but they were all “conserved” and lacquered. The lighting was poor so I was not able to get decent photos.
Saturday was split between the auction, CNA general meeting, the CATC meeting, and the bourse floor. For those of you that have the 6th edition of Charlton’s Canadian Colonial Tokens, on the bottom of page 189 there is a comment about a Taylor example of a token selling on eBay certified as silver-plated. Well, I bought that piece back in 2003. I brought it with me for the club meeting for show and tell. Immediately, two researchers asked to examine it. Their findings are incomplete at this time but they both agree that it is not what ICCS certified it to be. The weight is only 16.32g instead of 23+ and under a microscope the surface does not look plated. It rings OK but not like a plated piece would. It is also medal alignment vs. coinage. Instead they believe it to be a pewter example of the original striking and thus scarcer than originally thought. They will perform more research.
NEWS bulletin: The CNA has been granted the title of ROYAL per decree from QEII and is now to be known as The Royal Canadian Numismatic Association. The membership vote was approx 80% for vs. 10% against with only 2/3 needed to pass. I am now a life member in the RCNA, which I think is pretty cool. Imagine that: a Connecticut Yankee in Queen Liz’s court … eh-hum … well, you get the idea.
On the bourse, I was looking for 5c pieces to fill holes in my sets and came away with 6 purchases including this very pretty steel blue and rose toned 1888 fish-scale.
I won 6 lots in the auction including an R9 Lees 24 PEI Ships token and a nice EF40 1903 10c. I watched many scarce and rare tokens fetch some high prices. Full red copper also went for mucho bucks. An uncertified 2006 small cent, no logo, no mintmark, but still magnetic went for $600+ against a $200 estimate to an eBay bidder. But the MS64 1921 5c only pulled $27k against a $40k estimate.
I missed Cliff Mishler’s talk on collecting Canadian coins in the 1950’s + 1960’s from an American perspective. I also missed the banquet again … darn auction goes too long.
Sunday morning the bourse was a ghost town. By 11am most dealers were packed up. I was able to find a hanging sheep token from Lancashire Rochdale, D+H 140, in a half off box. Edge reads “Payable at the Warehouse of John Kershaw” Not bad for $10, eh?
All in all, this was a very good convention for me. I enjoyed meeting up with old friends and making a few new ones. And as usual shopping thru all of the dealers’ cases and realizing what is available for collectors of any means. Now that I have my newly acquired treasures at home, it’s time to catalog, study, read, and prepare for 2009 in Edmonton.
edit for spelling and to correct Mr. Perry's allegiance (thnaks Newsman)
Gene
Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
Member of Canadian Association of Token Collectors
Collector of:
Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
My Ebay
Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
Member of Canadian Association of Token Collectors
Collector of:
Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
My Ebay
0
Comments
I may need to get a newer copy of the Charlton token book as mine is only the 4th edition. It sounds like you have a VERY interesting token.
$10 on the Rochdale token was a good buy. Most dealers would list it in the $20-25 range.
Collecting:
Conder tokens
19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
I missed Cliff Mishler’s talk on collecting Canadian coins in the 1950’s + 1960’s from an American perspective. I also missed the banquet again … darn auction goes too long.
I would have loved to have heard that one. From what I have read, US dealers, speculators, and collectors bought bags of Canadian coins as they were buying rolls of BU US coins. I bought a bag each of 5 and 10 cent and dollar bags from 1960 from an estate, and the auctioner said the former owner bought bags of each denomination from the mid 1950s through 1964. A local dealer offered to sell me a bag of 6,000 1965 cents he bought ages ago, but then he couldn't find it. As mentioned in Striking Impressions, the bubble burst when the RCM made enough mint sets in 1965 to fill orders after they initially said they'd only make a fixed amount. Speculators rushed to order them with the hope of flipping them for a tidy profit, only to see that the market was flooded with them.
Obscurum per obscurius
BTW, Oliver Hazard Perry was the U.S. commander at Lake Erie, famous for his battle flag, which read "Don't Give Up the Ship."
My best piece is a 1964 Cent that's near flawless on the reverse, but has some scratches on the obverse. It's especially cool as I already had a 1964 cent that had some major problems-ie, moldy scuzz on it! I have quite a few Canadian freinds so I am going to give it to one of them to spend when he gets home, LOL!
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
No problems with French vs. English. I think all but a few dealers spoke excellent English. Those that didn't clearly understood "how much?"
Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
Member of Canadian Association of Token Collectors
Collector of:
Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
My Ebay