Shoplifting of coins.....what's been your experience.

DNADave · July 22, 2008 1:40AM

I sell a few coins at a local antique mall using typical coin cases. I have both a floor case with sliding doors in the back (pad locks on each door), and the flat, countertop cases like you see at shows.

I know there is risk involved in selling this way and also that dealers at shows get "lifted" right in front of their eyes, So I limit what is in the cases in terms of value.

Two months ago, someone broke into the floor case by breaking the hasp that the lock was on. I lost about $400 or so. It was captured on video but neither the local city police or our State Police would do anything other than take a theft report (Funny since I work in a forensic lab in our State Police Headquarters) and the shop has the ol' we are not responsible for loss or theft clause in the contract. Basically, it's my responsibility. Today, I find the countertop case with the lock feeling loose. When I checked the mint sets, the only thing there was the envelope, no coins inside for a lose of about $50.

Being a bit discouraged right now, I'm wonding about how much of this do you dealers put up with before you give up.

I'm not big enough to sell at shows. I don't want to sit all day at flea markets. Ebay has its own set of problems.

AARRrrrggg.

notwilight · July 22, 2008 1:43AM

Sounds like you need to get a rolling briefcase and take everything home with you at night. --Jerry

holeinone1972 · July 22, 2008 1:46AM

Sorry I have no experience with shoplifting, BUT if this economy keeps going south, I may send in an application for apprenticeship.

Sorry for your loss.

rhedden · July 22, 2008 2:07AM

Keep your eye on your coins at all times, or they will get stolen. That is my experience with theft. Coins are a magnet for thieves. I believe there are dozens of would-be thieves walking around at most major shows, waiting for their chance.

I left some coins on consignment at my trusted local shop in the 1990s. A married couple stole them. The husband distracted the dealer while the wife shoved coins up her sleeve. When I came in the next week, the coins were gone, and the assistant in the shop paid me for them - "must have sold them." The next week, the thieves were caught, and the extent of their shoplifting was discovered. They were forced to pay back a lot of people. These thieves were targeting consignment items due to the confusion that results when it isn't clear who is responsible for the coins. In other words, maybe the collector accuses the dealer of selling the coins and forgetting, or the dealer accuses the collector of taking his own coins back while he was distracted with other customers. Bad, bad stuff.

On another consignment I left with a different dealer, a customer bought all of my Morgan Dollars, and while the dealer was distracted, shoved two large cents into his pocket and walked out the door. I lost $120 as we did not recover the coins.

At a Baltimore show about 6-7 years ago, I recall an incident where a dealer was in a panic because someone graded an entire binder full of Morgan Dollars and got away with it (as far as I know). How you get something that large out the door at a major show is beyond me. Maybe someone else remembers this incident?

Ebay or the BST forum is the safest way to sell for a small-time seller. The reason is that you retain physical possession of the coins until they are paid for. That is the most important thing to me.

mrearlygold · July 22, 2008 2:10AM

Penalties range from cutting off a finger ( see illustration ) to a hand

Whitby · July 22, 2008 2:13AM

My local shop is pretty cool.

The door is secured so you have to knock and then you are buzzed in.

On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off and a very kind man looking throufgh a loop saying, hey, what can I help you find.

This was after they got hit bad a few yars ago.

dac076 · July 22, 2008 2:54AM

Shoplifting of coins.....what's been your experience.

I thought you were looking to hire someone!

Selling online is the safest way, I believe. Otherwise, I'd take Notwighlight's advice and take them home (and be careful doing that as well).

Steve27 · July 22, 2008 2:58AM

Rob (lordmarcovan) has the same setup and the same set of problems; he has been robbed a couple of times.

PerryHall · July 22, 2008 3:05AM

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety.

holeinone1972 · July 22, 2008 3:07AM

<< 

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

THUS the safety is OFF.

DNADave · July 22, 2008 3:16AM

<< Shoplifting of coins.....what's been your experience.

I thought you were looking to hire someone!

Selling online is the safest way, I believe. Otherwise, I'd take Notwighlight's advice and take them home (and be careful doing that as well). >>

Sounds good but this isn't happening at night....that and it wouldn't be condusive to remaining employed if I was at the antique mall every morning putting out coins.

chabot510 · July 22, 2008 3:21AM

<< 

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

beat me to it!

notwilight · July 22, 2008 3:23AM

<< 

<< 

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

THUS the safety is OFF.

>>

Never buy a weapon for protection that has a safety. Safeties are for hunting. --Jerry

PTVETTER · July 22, 2008 3:30AM

there are not too many coin shows where a dealer or dealers are not ripped off. I have been a victum a few times. Chances are that all coin collectors are not honest and there are a few dealers that have sticky fingers also. I don't know what can be done but something has to be done.

BECOKA · July 22, 2008 3:33AM

This maybe where you buy to keep and don't sell. Then you will not have these issues anymore.

MICHAELDIXON · July 22, 2008 3:41AM

I'm not big enough to sell at shows.

If you have enough merchandise to sell at an antique mall, you certainly have enough to sell at smaller shows. Both dealers and customers like to see new dealers and will help you be a success. Dump the antique mall and sell at a few shows. I'm sure you will be surprised at the outcome.

streeter · July 22, 2008 3:49AM

Selling at an antique mall venue has got to be a hard way to go.

Sell at some small shows and go to have some fun while you are selling. Show sellers that appear to enjoy it are always a pleasure to buy from.

Amigo · July 22, 2008 3:52AM

I've owned three Cash businesses with typically 100 employees. I can tell you without a doubt that most thefts are done by employees. I would instantly suspect the Mall employees.

zeebob · July 22, 2008 3:57AM

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

Bad mojo leaving a gun where a perp can see it. Just asking for some punk hop the counter grab the gun and shoot you with your own gun. Far better to keep it out of sight but with in reach.

mrearlygold · July 22, 2008 4:07AM

<< 

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

+ they are too small a weapon.

unknowncomic · July 22, 2008 4:21AM

Mrearlygold, a .22 is not to small if you can shoot it. But to the subject, never never trust anyone thats not family (and some of those are suspect) around your coins. I lost a lot of mine a few months ago and thanks to some super people on this forum I am on the road back. (If anyone wants an update on why I was at the Dr. that day , PM me and I will explain.) I would suspect someone that works at the mall.

BobGreene · July 22, 2008 4:53AM

Booby trap your cases.

morganbarber · July 22, 2008 6:37AM

At my first time at the Baltimore show, I was at a booth, looking at coins, and this rather spaced out hippyish looking dude comes up to the dealer and says in a grand dramatic way "How much would you pay... ... ... ... ... For THIS!". I didn't get a look at the coin in the slab. The dealer instantly shouted "Where did you get that!?!" and tried to grab the guy, who ran. Security grabbed him at the exit. I have no idea how the dealer knew by looking at the slab that it was stolen. It kind of freaked me out.

NHSBaseball · July 22, 2008 7:13AM

It's funny this came up- I was at a new coin shop (yay!) that opened up a few months ago today, just checking it out. The owner is a super guy- I think he opened the shop after he retired from his regular job and likes to talk coins. Anyway, I asked to see a seated half he had in his display case and he pulled the whole tray out, then left me to inspect the coins while he was helping another customer. I couldn't help thinking that it was a very trusting thing to do with someone he doesn't know that well.

mrearlygold · July 22, 2008 7:20AM

<< Mrearlygold, a .22 is not to small if you can shoot it. But to the subject, never never trust anyone thats not family (and some of those are suspect) around your coins. I lost a lot of mine a few months ago and thanks to some super people on this forum I am on the road back. (If anyone wants an update on why I was at the Dr. that day , PM me and I will explain.) I would suspect someone that works at the mall. >>

A .22 will likely annoy someone who is high on drugs like meth.

Would you want your Wife and Children or anyone elses for that matter to rely on a .22?

Not I.

I believe in knowing how to shoot and if necessary to do so, do it right.

That means a .45 which will stop anyone.

Whitby · July 22, 2008 7:25AM

<< 

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

However, to be clear, the man, with the gun stated, it was a 38 special. So you know what. I am going to go with what the man with the gun says. He could tell me its a grilled cheese sandwich and you know what? By God, its grilled cheese. Folks I am so sorry I am not as terse on this issue. Its sad to happen, I love my local shop and described what was told to me what I heard.

FORGIVE ME.

For the record, I gave my guns away and opted for a sledge hammer and razor wire. I have not used either yet.

Whitby · July 22, 2008 7:33AM

<< 

<< Mrearlygold, a .22 is not to small if you can shoot it. But to the subject, never never trust anyone thats not family (and some of those are suspect) around your coins. I lost a lot of mine a few months ago and thanks to some super people on this forum I am on the road back. (If anyone wants an update on why I was at the Dr. that day , PM me and I will explain.) I would suspect someone that works at the mall. >>

A .22 will likely annoy someone who is high on drugs like meth.

Would you want your Wife and Children or anyone elses for that matter to rely on a .22?

Not I.

I believe in knowing how to shoot and if necessary to do so, do it right.

That means a .45 which will stop anyone. >>

The .45 is the worst weapon you could use. Sure, it will stop the person, however the bullet will not stop. Walls, cars others folks houses.....Kind of major over kill. Thats like squirrel hunting with a SW50.

If you are at the point where you are relying on a gun....yeah well, you are no longer protected...just a thought. But, hey, go nuts. I think collecting and owning guns is swell, just not me. I am so very sorry I did not pick up the gun, look at it and then tell the shop owner, BY GOD SIR this is NOT a .38 special.....Oh well. Yeah man, that would show him and it surely would have saved me the huge embarassment about being wrong about the gun. Oh man.

ksteelheader · July 22, 2008 7:59AM

<< 

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

How wrong you are!!

S&W model 52: .38 Special Automatic

COLT COMBAT COMMANDER SERIES 70- 38 SPECIAL
.38 Special (pronounced "Thirty-eight Special") is a rimmed, centerfire cartridge designed by Smith & Wesson. It is most commonly used in revolvers, although semi-automatic pistols and some carbines also use this round. The .38 Special was the standard service cartridge of most police departments in the United States from the 1920s to the 1980s. In other parts of the world, particularly Europe, it is known by its metric designation 9x29mmR.

PerryHall · July 22, 2008 8:25AM

<< 

<< 

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

How wrong you are!!

S&W model 52: .38 Special Automatic

COLT COMBAT COMMANDER SERIES 70- 38 SPECIAL
.38 Special (pronounced "Thirty-eight Special") is a rimmed, centerfire cartridge designed by Smith & Wesson. It is most commonly used in revolvers, although semi-automatic pistols and some carbines also use this round. The .38 Special was the standard service cartridge of most police departments in the United States from the 1920s to the 1980s. In other parts of the world, particularly Europe, it is known by its metric designation 9x29mmR. >>

You are correct. There was also a Colt Gold Cup National Match automatic that shot 38 special wad cutters. In any event, automatic pistols that shoot the 38 special are fairly rare in the gun world and like any generalities, there are rare exceptions.

ksteelheader · July 22, 2008 8:33AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< On the counter is a loaded .38 special with the safety off >>

The 38 special is a revolver cartridge and revolvers don't have a safety. >>

How wrong you are!!

S&W model 52: .38 Special Automatic

COLT COMBAT COMMANDER SERIES 70- 38 SPECIAL
.38 Special (pronounced "Thirty-eight Special") is a rimmed, centerfire cartridge designed by Smith & Wesson. It is most commonly used in revolvers, although semi-automatic pistols and some carbines also use this round. The .38 Special was the standard service cartridge of most police departments in the United States from the 1920s to the 1980s. In other parts of the world, particularly Europe, it is known by its metric designation 9x29mmR. >>

You are correct. There was also a Colt Gold Cup National Match automatic that shot 38 special wad cutters. In any event, automatic pistols that shoot the 38 special are fairly rare in the gun world and like any generalities, there are rare exceptions. >>

Just like a lot of the coins I'd like to have.

JJM · July 22, 2008 9:58AM

generally dont do it ................

bushmaster8 · July 22, 2008 10:44AM

<< At a Baltimore show about 6-7 years ago, I recall an incident where a dealer was in a panic because someone graded an entire binder full of Morgan Dollars and got away with it (as far as I know). How you get something that large out the door at a major show is beyond me. Maybe someone else remembers this incident? >>

I wasn't there, but I know the dealer you are speaking of. He is a great guy . He generally has 2 tables and often works alone... unfortunately he can't watch all his goods at once. He has had his Morgan binder walk away twice!

My guess is that the binder goes into a briefcase before exiting the bourse.

PawPaul · July 22, 2008 11:41AM

you fellers sit at your shops and tables with your fingers wrapped around your six gun's all you want ......

there are enough people out there so good at sleight of hand and misdirection -

you'll be wondering how the barrel of your gun got stuck in your butt as they breeze past the security guard with their pockets full of your coins !

Whitby · July 22, 2008 1:10PM

So, I go to the shop for ome 2x2 holders and behold, the gun i indeed a 38 special and thans to the kind folks here, there was indeed no safety on the weapon, rather it was the trigger guard which was removed. WOW, I felt so much better knowing that.

Below is the link for the gun he uses. It the identical model.

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Charter-OffDuty/MVC-874F.jpg

I however, would not use a gun, thats my choice, others do, thats swell. Turns out, he collects guns as well.....

garsmith · July 23, 2008 12:08AM

I would say you need to invest in roll away cases, remove your inventory when leaving the cases or give up and us the BST here.

Trooper · July 23, 2008 2:34AM

Here's what a S&W model 52 looks like........I've had this one for many years.....Paid $350 for it.....

Anyone know what's this thing is worth nowadays?

bushmaster8 · July 23, 2008 2:46AM

You might check out gunbroker.com for current value.

PawPaul · July 24, 2008 12:49PM

tell you what :

catch somebody stealing your coins -

shoot them ..........

let me know from jail how it turns out

PerryHall · July 24, 2008 9:20PM

<< tell you what :

catch somebody stealing your coins -

shoot them ..........

let me know from jail how it turns out >>

Good luck trying to get 12 jurors to convict you.

ksteelheader · July 24, 2008 9:21PM

<< 

<< tell you what :

catch somebody stealing your coins -

shoot them ..........

let me know from jail how it turns out >>

Good luck trying to get 12 jurors to convict you. >>

Amen!

Preussen · July 24, 2008 9:37PM

<< Shoplifting of coins.....what's been your experience. >>

I'm firmly against it. -Preussen

slipgate · July 24, 2008 10:38PM

<< 

<< 

<< Mrearlygold, a .22 is not to small if you can shoot it. But to the subject, never never trust anyone thats not family (and some of those are suspect) around your coins. I lost a lot of mine a few months ago and thanks to some super people on this forum I am on the road back. (If anyone wants an update on why I was at the Dr. that day , PM me and I will explain.) I would suspect someone that works at the mall. >>

A .22 will likely annoy someone who is high on drugs like meth.

Would you want your Wife and Children or anyone elses for that matter to rely on a .22?

Not I.

I believe in knowing how to shoot and if necessary to do so, do it right.

That means a .45 which will stop anyone. >>

The .45 is the worst weapon you could use. Sure, it will stop the person, however the bullet will not stop. Walls, cars others folks houses.....Kind of major over kill. Thats like squirrel hunting with a SW50.

If you are at the point where you are relying on a gun....yeah well, you are no longer protected...just a thought. But, hey, go nuts. I think collecting and owning guns is swell, just not me. I am so very sorry I did not pick up the gun, look at it and then tell the shop owner, BY GOD SIR this is NOT a .38 special.....Oh well. Yeah man, that would show him and it surely would have saved me the huge embarassment about being wrong about the gun. Oh man. >>

100% wrong. The .45 was created specifically to NOT go through someone but to stop them. It is a large, SLOW bullet (sub-sonic), perfect for home defense!

Ignorance is the tool of the anti-gun crowd, don't be a tool!

PerryHall · July 24, 2008 10:43PM

<< 100% wrong. The .45 was created specifically to NOT go through someone but to stop them. It is a large, SLOW bullet (sub-sonic), perfect for home defense! >>

Agree. Recommend 185 gr hollow points.

lordmarcovan · July 24, 2008 10:57PM

As an antique mall dealer, I've been hit twice, and both times it was an inside job- a corrupt employee using the keys to the case to help himself. Under the current management, no probs.

I have had some minor stuff go missing to the sticky-fingered public, but it's been painless- a few BU state quarters and no doubt some stuff from my loose 10c or 3/$1 bins (which I wouldn't even miss).

Be glad your place has video. The second time I got hit was during the change of management, when the old owner took the cameras when she left. She likely was not the culprit, but we suspect it was somebody who was helping her move. The first (and more painful) time, it was a manager who later got fired (had a drug habit to support, I believe). I lost some gold that time. Some nice gold, too. I no longer stock anything of that caliber.

lordmarcovan · July 24, 2008 11:00PM

<< Selling at an antique mall venue has got to be a hard way to go. >>

Au contraire- if you have all your stuff clearly labeled and priced, and there is somebody trustworthy and of at least average intelligence manning the counter, it can be a good thing, because you ain't gotta be there. I work a full time "real" job, and the antique mall gig has allowed me to have a part-time coin business without having to travel anywhere or do anything except stock the cases. This way I am selling six days a week and have a little residual income each month to fuel my collecting pursuits. No, I don't make real money at it, but I certainly make enough to feed my habit and buy the stuff I collect.

Obviously you wanna consign as a vendor in a place that has good management and security.

Coxe · July 25, 2008 3:25AM

Coins are worth cash and many are very liquid. That makes them theft magnets. 99% of the folks at a shop or a bourse are honest people. The dishonest ones are ruthless though. Apparent customers will use distraction all the time to lift a coin. A subtle slight of hand is also to identify a coin you want, buy a widget that appears very similar in a similar slab (maybe a mint mark off), ask to see the expensive one and switch the coins when you return it to the dealer. Dealers aren't immune from suspicion either, particularly at smaller shows. Never put boxes of valuable coins on your back up table. There's another dealer's back up table right adjacent to yours. Not hard to move them over a trivial partition.

Whitby · July 25, 2008 4:08AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Mrearlygold, a .22 is not to small if you can shoot it. But to the subject, never never trust anyone thats not family (and some of those are suspect) around your coins. I lost a lot of mine a few months ago and thanks to some super people on this forum I am on the road back. (If anyone wants an update on why I was at the Dr. that day , PM me and I will explain.) I would suspect someone that works at the mall. >>

A .22 will likely annoy someone who is high on drugs like meth.

Would you want your Wife and Children or anyone elses for that matter to rely on a .22?

Not I.

I believe in knowing how to shoot and if necessary to do so, do it right.

That means a .45 which will stop anyone. >>

The .45 is the worst weapon you could use. Sure, it will stop the person, however the bullet will not stop. Walls, cars others folks houses.....Kind of major over kill. Thats like squirrel hunting with a SW50.

If you are at the point where you are relying on a gun....yeah well, you are no longer protected...just a thought. But, hey, go nuts. I think collecting and owning guns is swell, just not me. I am so very sorry I did not pick up the gun, look at it and then tell the shop owner, BY GOD SIR this is NOT a .38 special.....Oh well. Yeah man, that would show him and it surely would have saved me the huge embarassment about being wrong about the gun. Oh man. >>

100% wrong. The .45 was created specifically to NOT go through someone but to stop them. It is a large, SLOW bullet (sub-sonic), perfect for home defense!

Ignorance is the tool of the anti-gun crowd, don't be a tool! >>

Uhhh. 100% wrong to you sir.

Yes, it was created for specific use in the Phillipines, yes, Grandad and my uncle showed me their copies and YEAH, it will keep going, and YEAH it will decrease more quickly in velocity but NOT before you start endangering others. And YEAH, I have the T shirt and YEAH it does keep travelling. You do NOT need a bazooka to protect a home and you do not squirrel hunt with a tank. Its overkill and totally endangers others. My entire family is military, I am familiar with gun use. Last I checked, the average home in the US is not a cavern. Its a rather small enclosed space. USUALLY, not 3 hundred meters or so long.

As others have posted here, home defense can be achieved with far less high powered guns.

I am not anti gun. I have used and understand that weapon. I have chosen not to use it for the purposes I posted. You have chosen another way. I respect that. BUT, my experince demonstrated the reverse. DO NOT tell me I was wrong when I was there. IMO, and thats all that it is, MY OPINION, its overkill. If you choose the weapon. Fine. Its your choice. However, dont insult me, and do not label me because that speaks volumes more than any anti gun tool ever will.

Shoplifting of coins.....what's been your experience.

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