2008 Platinum Proof coins?
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It looks like the mint no longer has 2008 Proof platinum coins for sale.
They are still selling the 2007 two coin set for a ridiculous price but I don't see any 2008 coins.
Any guesses as to whether or not we have seen the last of the 08 Proof Plats?
They are still selling the 2007 two coin set for a ridiculous price but I don't see any 2008 coins.
Any guesses as to whether or not we have seen the last of the 08 Proof Plats?
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A Spade is a Spade.
We all want mo Money.
And everybody wanna go to Heaven,
but nobody wanna Die !!
Ol' Hank !!!
Box of 20
After all, the uncs are priced far above the original proof price. Now the Mint would have to bring
the proofs back over the unc price which is now at $2318.89 per ounce for the 4 coin set.
Hats off to those who purchased the proof plats while they were available.
There clearly seems to be demand for the '08 proofs. The Mint is in the business of selling coins. If they have '08 proofs sitting in stock which is very likely, why not just sell them? They could price them just above the UNC prices to keep this relationship consistent. If they don't sell, they've lost nothing for trying. Certainly some would sell and they would make a killing on these with the plat price where it is now.
The Mint is just sitting tightlipped. They know their customers well - playin everyone like a violin.
How reliable is your source, Hank? If the Mint no longer has interest in the Plats, this is a 180 from just last Spring, when Edmond Moy was spouting off about how Plats are the Mint's Premier Product.
Not that I doubt what you are saying, because the Mint does pretty much whatever they want to do. I tend to agree with FullStrike's comment, They know their customers well - playin everyone like a violin.
The price of platinum is going to be volatile. If the Uncs are overpriced due to a drop in the spot price, it only makes sense to lower the prices on both Uncs and Proofs, and to put them back on sale - unfortunately, the Uncs had just been offered when the spot price dropped. The Mint isn't geared for a free market pricing mechanism - typical of a large government bureaucracy, they would like to control it, but they don't know what it is.
My guess is that the wheels of the Mint's Bureaucracy move slowly because of the large number of other programs that have to be managed, and that changes in the Plat Program pricing are one of those things that only get a passing glance on Monday's staff meeting. Sooner or later they'll get around to it. Or not. We never know.
If Hank's comments are accurate, then it must have been orchestrated from the start - one more instance of the Mint's Ivory Tower approach towards their customer base. The peasants have no bread? Let them eat cake!!!
One question - what is the die life for Plats - Satin, Unc, Proof? Does anyone know?
I knew it would happen.
I think it's logical for them to do so, but expect that they won't.
I don't know. But in addressing the "First Strike" designation US Mint-hot items
the Mint said:
"Our manufacturing facilities use a die set as long as the quality of resulting coins meets United States Mint standards, and then replace the dies, continually changing sets throughout the production process. For bullion American Eagle and American Buffalo Coins, the United States Mint makes an average of about 6,000 coins from one die set. For proof versions of the 2006 American Buffalo Coins, the yield is an average of about 1,500 coins per die set. For proof versions of the American Eagle Coins, the yield is an average of about 300-500 coins per die set. This means that coins may be minted from new die sets at any point and at multiple times while production of a coin is ongoing, not just the first day or at the beginning of production. To put this in context, in 2005 the United States Mint produced approximately 356,500 one-ounce gold, 8,891,000 silver, and 6,300 one-ounce platinum American Eagle Bullion Coins."
<< <i>The Mint is just sitting tightlipped. They know their customers well - playin everyone like a violin.
No one is talking about holding the Mint respoinsble for anything. They are supposedly in the business of selling coins. Thus, one would think that they would maintain good communication with their customers and try to....gasp....actually sell coins where there is demand, not "play everyone like a violin."
<< <i>The Mint has consistently pulled its bullion coins to adjust prices UP, but now that platinum has deflated a bit, what are the odds that the Mint adjusts prices down?
I think it's logical for them to do so, but expect that they won't. >>
Does anyone know if they have ever dropped the prices on an item due to a drop in spot metal price??
<< <i>
<< <i>The Mint has consistently pulled its bullion coins to adjust prices UP, but now that platinum has deflated a bit, what are the odds that the Mint adjusts prices down?
I think it's logical for them to do so, but expect that they won't. >>
Does anyone know if they have ever dropped the prices on an item due to a drop in spot metal price?? >>
In 2006, the mint dropped the price of the AGEs in response to the drop in gold value.
The interesting thing is that in the time I've been watching closely (a few years now), the mint has always posted the "product is unavailable...volatile market... yadda yadda yadda... check back soon" message. This is the first time that the product has simply disappeared from their web page. In addition, the Plat Proof page has been promoted to the TOP of the American Eagle sub page. Seems almost like the mint is trying hard to create a stir... and they are succeeding.
If this is to be the last year of issue, what a way to go!
Hank, thanks for your insights - I hope your source is correct. If so, I'm glad I already have mine, but disappointed that I just mailed back 10 proofs that I didn't like very much...
Eric
My '08 proof half-ouncer, that I picked up two months ago on eBay, is looking sweeter every day!
Second, it would be better if they put the Proofs and Unc. up for sale at the same time. That way they could increase or decrease the price of both when needed.
With Platinum at $1850, it makes the Anniv. Set almost a 50% mark up !!!
<< <i>A scan of completed auctions on eBay shows that the 2008 proofs are bringing strong money for all sizes. >>
And there are very few being offered for sale right now. I think people who have them are taking a wait and see attitude.
<< <i>Sounds like a flippers dream to me. If/When they do come back they'll drop fast, you non-collectors better hurry
How can they come back, if the mint will not lower the price to match the market? Could they try to sell an ounce for more than $2300 when platinum is at $1850/oz?
<< <i>Sounds like a flippers dream to me. If/When they do come back they'll drop fast, you non-collectors better hurry
Of course the key question is IF. If they do come back, those paying inflated prices now will loose a lot. If they DON'T, they will make the 2004 proofs and the 2006 W Uncs. look like common bullion. Of course, there is the question of the size of the collector base. No matter how rare they are, no collector base, no margin over spot.
Raufus, I know of at least 23 of us.
I knew it would happen.
Collector base has always been an issue with platinums. The 2006 w uncirculateds have super low mintages (2500-3500) and this wasn't a secret -- it was reported in collector magazines, and widely reported on this forum. But with platinum at $2000 or so an ounce, even those have little premium to melt right now. It seems to me that the base is small and getting smaller.
The 2006 w issue price for a 4 coin set was $2585.
In 2008, the same set is $4300.
The huge increase in issue price largely absorbs whatever expected upside we might hope could materialize.
This is no time for speculators; these are for collectors only.
Will the mintages be low? Yes. without a doubt.
Wherever we end up will be a good indication of what the real collector numbers are.
Still, with acquisiton price so high, I'm afraid that even ultra low mintages won't be enough to build the base.
People can't collect what they can't afford.
No matter how rare they are, no collector base, no margin over spot.
Don't forget about the speculator base!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
that's entirely true. I'm just a frustrated set collector who likes the big coins.
In 1997, a 4 coin set was $1350.
In 2002, a 4 coin set was $1375.
Now it's $4300+ Ouch.
That is one of the reasons that Plats have a following - the general recognition that mintages will be low due to the initial cost. During the early years of the program, that was less so.
My first Plat purchase was 10 Maple Leaves in 1996. My second Plat purchase was 10 Platinum Eagles in 1998. Those coins are long gone. I bought 40 1/4 ozers in 2000 when I thought that the mintages were dropping off enough to make it interesting, but the real action in mintages began in 2003, and it hasn't stopped yet.
My cost basis in those Year 2000 1/4 ozers is something like $117.00/ea. When I first started selling them off, I was getting around $160.00/ea. on ebay, and I thought that I had made a killing. Interesting how times change.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Of course, there is the question of the size of the collector base. No matter how rare they are, no collector base, no margin over spot.
Raufus, I know of at least 23 of us.
I hope that included me in the 23. I really love the things. It's just A LOT of $$ to be putting into these 08's when the series has such an uncertain future w/respect to collector base, etc.
I can't imagine they minted such a small quantity of these coins, now if it was 1000 of each or something like that I could see it, as it is a round number.....
2009 Platinum coins could be dicey.
<< <i> if one collects only one of the smaller denominations rather than the entire set, the expense is still somewhat reasonable
that's entirely true. I'm just a frustrated set collector who likes the big coins.
In 1997, a 4 coin set was $1350.
In 2002, a 4 coin set was $1375.
Now it's $4300+ Ouch. >>
Really, where can you get a 4-coin set for $4300?
Here's something to consider. How long do you think that the Burnished Unc "W" coins will remain on sale at $4,289.95? If they remove them for "re-pricing" will they ever come back?
If you buy them now, will you be kicking yourself later for buying something that is grossly overpriced, or will you be kicking yourself for not buying something that rocketed to the moon because they never came back on sale after they were removed for re-pricing?
The Mint loves playing "chicken" with it's best customers. It's just a big bureaucracy that can't get out of it's own way.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I think if the mint wants to sell bullion they are going to have to find a efficient way of changing prices. The price scale should be allowed to go down as well as up. >>
That might sound like a good idea, but what happens to the people who paid a high price before the spot price drops? Platinum has been all over the place up, down, up, down.
The Mint is not allowed to lose money, and constantly changing prices would not work very well. Buyers would likely wait to order at next week's price, and/or return stuff they bought to buy it later at a lower price.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
They become disgrunted, former customers.
The Mint is not allowed to lose money
I'm not sure about that. Is there such a law or regulation in place? If so, they had better stop making cents and nickels fairly soon.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>what happens to the people who paid a high price before the spot price drops?
They become disgrunted, former customers.
The Mint is not allowed to lose money
I'm not sure about that. Is there such a law or regulation in place? If so, they had better stop making cents and nickels fairly soon. >>
The Mint is required to recover costs (of production, marketing, packaging, shipping, etc.) of coins sold to collectors. It's not like the good old days, when a Proof set sold for $2.10
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
When people buy bullion at a coin dealers shop and the price goes down the next day I cannot go back and return it for the price from the day before, todays price is different from yesterdays price.
I'm really suprised that the Mint will continue with a series wtih such low sales. I can't believe that it is cost effective. Of course, with the plats selling for so much over spot perhaps it is!
If this were true, they would not be able to coin any cents or nickels, and we know they are still doing that....
<< <i>Raufus, I know of at least 23 of us.
+1 ME
<< <i>"The Mint is not allowed to lose money"
If this were true, they would not be able to coin any cents or nickels, and we know they are still doing that.... >>
I was referring to collector coins, not to coins intended for circulation. I believe P.L. 104-52 and/or similar laws require the Mint to price collector coins so as to recoup its expenses. And some coin prices (such as the Bald Eagle series), are jacked up even higher, so a "donation" can be made to some group favored by the Congress.
I'm not defending the Mint. In fact, the multiplicity of issues and high prices for them may have a net effect of damaging our hobby, by funneling money away from older coin series. I say net effect, because many people are attracted to numismatics in the first place by the Mint's advertising barrage.
As for platinum, I'd like to add to modest collection, but at current prices, it's a no-go for me, even if the Mint's excessive markup were to disappear.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
Interesting to see when the proof come out.....
<< <i>**2008 W $50 Proof Plat. PCGS FS just sold in ebay for almost $3000! Total pop. per ad = 17 (lowest pop. of the lowest mintage 2008 W plat thus far). >>
<< <i>A scan of completed auctions on eBay shows that the 2008 proofs are bringing strong money for all sizes. >>
My link stays updated.
<< <i>CHART SHOWS IT SHOULD BOUNCE >>
I'm a little slow. What is the point of this?