Wax vs. Cello boxes

billwaltonsbeard

Ok, so I'm sitting here at 3:07AM looking at the BBCE site trying to spend some money. I have a question for you pack rippin' pros. Why are wax boxes and cello boxes usually priced exactly the same? I'm looking at 80s stuff so I'm just referring to what I've seen tonight. Arent there alot more cards in cello boxes? What am I missing?

yankeeno7

Common damage in cellos due to packaging especially the top and bottom 2-3 cards.

Tvac897

Trying to mitigate damage.

Goodsport40

Personally, I have had better luck with wax. Racks are usually the best bet, but can be expensive. As stated above, cellos usually have several cards that are damaged. Also, the last few cellos I have picked up had a very mildew like smell.

Good luck and happy ripping!



Robert

lsutigers1973

If you are looking to pull possible GEM 10 cards, wax is the only way to go especially for the 80's stuff. Topps wax, for example, you are usually guaranteed two cards that are ruined. The top one will have gum stuck to it and the bottom one will have wax. The rest are usually fine. With cellos regardless of brand, unless purcahsing a sealed case, you can expect to find numerous cards with damaged corners. Plus, many of the Donruss and Fleer racks from the 80's are tightly wrapped in cellophane, damaging the corners of at least the top and bottom 2, then placed in the racks doubling your chances for dinged corners. There are always exceptions:

1981 Topps rack packs i have had good luck with gem quality cards but do not really know why

1982 Topps cello packs you can expect 4 ruined cards. The top and bottom cards usually have corner damage and the 2 middle cards will have gum stains including the sticker.

1983 Fleer jumbo are usually fairly inexpensive and from my experience the number of cards in each compartment limits the damage to most of the cards.

1982-1985 grocery packs I have had good luck with because they are basically just 3 wax packs that are securely wrapped in cellophane and in some cases cardboard

1989 Fleer are cheap enough to purchase an entire sealed case or at least from BBCE a full sealed box from a case.

billwaltonsbeard

Thanks everyone for all the info. Good stuff

billwaltonsbeard

<< <i>If you are looking to pull possible GEM 10 cards, wax is the only way to go especially for the 80's stuff. Topps wax, for example, you are usually guaranteed two cards that are ruined. The top one will have gum stuck to it and the bottom one will have wax. The rest are usually fine. With cellos regardless of brand, unless purcahsing a sealed case, you can expect to find numerous cards with damaged corners. Plus, many of the Donruss and Fleer racks from the 80's are tightly wrapped in cellophane, damaging the corners of at least the top and bottom 2, then placed in the racks doubling your chances for dinged corners. There are always exceptions:

1981 Topps rack packs i have had good luck with gem quality cards but do not really know why

1982 Topps cello packs you can expect 4 ruined cards. The top and bottom cards usually have corner damage and the 2 middle cards will have gum stains including the sticker.

1983 Fleer jumbo are usually fairly inexpensive and from my experience the number of cards in each compartment limits the damage to most of the cards.

1982-1985 grocery packs I have had good luck with because they are basically just 3 wax packs that are securely wrapped in cellophane and in some cases cardboard

1989 Fleer are cheap enough to purchase an entire sealed case or at least from BBCE a full sealed box from a case. >>



I have to ask a follow up question about cellos. Are alot of the cards damaged straight from the factory just because of how they're packed?? Or do they get damaged over the years from being handled??

Leiascards

Most of the damage to cards in cellos is caused by how they are packaged. The cards are either too tight in the cello so when the machine pulled the wrapper tight it put pressure on the corners or they are too loose in the packs and have just moved around over the years.

billwaltonsbeard

So I guess the only way that all cards in cello boxes would be mint, is if they were wrapped loosely, and stayed stationary since that day. Correct?

jeffcbay

So the moral of the story is, if you crack a 1982 Topps/Fleer cello box, and you see a "Ripken on top", sell it as an un-opened pack, because someone inexperienced will think they're buying a mint card, when in fact they could be getting a badly dinged up card.

Leiascards

<< <i>So the moral of the story is, if you crack a 1982 Topps/Fleer cello box, and you see a "Ripken on top", sell it as an un-opened pack, because someone inexperienced will think they're buying a mint card, when in fact they could be getting a badly dinged up card. >>



Send it to get it graded. It could still recieve a high PSA grade.

originalisbest

Yep, never cellos again... in one box I bought, almost every single card had corner dinging from too-tight wrapping. Wax or rack only for me! :-))

billwaltonsbeard

<< <i>Yep, never cellos again... in one box I bought, almost every single card had corner dinging from too-tight wrapping. Wax or rack only for me! :-)) >>



can you share the year, sport and company please?

grote15

It also depends on the year you're looking to bust. Cello packs from 1973-1979 were very tightly packed, so the likelihood of dinged corners is very high, but cellos from 1980 were very loosely wrapped, so that problem is not as big of an issue with those from the 80s.

billwaltonsbeard

<< <i>It also depends on the year you're looking to bust. Cello packs from 1973-1979 were very tightly packed, so the likelihood of dinged corners is very high, but cellos from 1980 were very loosely wrapped, so that problem is not as big of an issue with those from the 80s. >>



Cool, good to know. So 80s cellos should be ok if they're from a reputable, longtime dealer (BBCE).

lsutigers1973

I can help you with any cello, rack or wax pack from the 80's if you just tell me what year.

billwaltonsbeard

<< <i>I can help you with any cello, rack or wax pack from the 80's if you just tell me what year. >>



thank you, PM sent

dontippet

<< <i>So I guess the only way that all cards in cello boxes would be mint, is if they were wrapped loosely, and stayed stationary since that day. Correct? >>



....which is essentially a wax pack.

billwaltonsbeard

<< <i>

<< <i>So I guess the only way that all cards in cello boxes would be mint, is if they were wrapped loosely, and stayed stationary since that day. Correct? >>



....which is essentially a wax pack. >>



Well, no. 1/15 cards from wax have wax stains. And cellos are usually cheaper than wax.

I'm just trying to figure out why.

grote15

Well, no. 1/15 cards from wax have wax stains. And cellos are usually cheaper than wax.

I'm just trying to figure out why.

One reason is that with cellos you have a better idea of what cards may be inside the pack, as both top and bottom cards are visible and Topps produced cards in sequence throughout the 70s and 80s.

lsutigers1973

<< <i>One reason is that with cellos you have a better idea of what cards may be inside the pack, as both top and bottom cards are visible and Topps produced cards in sequence throughout the 70s and 80s. >>



I beg to differ, slightly. Sequencing in Topps cards of the 80's only took place in the cellos up to 1980 and somehow randomly up until 1983 in wax. I opened two cello boxes recently of 1982 Topps and pulled a Ripken in one of the first few packs. Of course I tried to find the same sequence judging by the card on top and did not find any more Ripkens. Donruss and Fleer on the other hand, were sequenced in all types of packs up until 1991 or 1992.

grote15

< One reason is that with cellos you have a better idea of what cards may be inside the pack, as both top and bottom cards are visible and Topps produced cards in sequence throughout the 70s and 80s. >>



I beg to differ, slightly. Sequencing in Topps cards of the 80's only took place in the cellos up to 1980 and somehow randomly up until 1983 in wax. I opened two cello boxes recently of 1982 Topps and pulled a Ripken in one of the first few packs. Of course I tried to find the same sequence judging by the card on top and did not find any more Ripkens. Donruss and Fleer on the other hand, were sequenced in all types of packs up until 1991 or 1992.

You may be correct in that aspect. I really meant to say the 70s, as I do not actively collect (or open) post-1980 packs. The sequence is a definite factor in 70s Topps packs. I've also heard that 1989 Fleer and Upper Deck being sequenced too, for those looking for the Griffey RC.

lsutigers1973

All of the Fleer and Donruss from 1981 until about 1992 were all sequenced.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

All of the Fleer and Donruss from 1981 until about 1992 were all sequenced.


Not all. 1989 Fleer is for the most part sequenced. I have seen different patterns within the same packaging method. 2 to be exact. For Griffey and Bill. Didnt note or notice patterns for other players. I think 3 for Bill but Im sure on 2. (notes are at home)

I used to track (not anymore) FF versions on top/bottom of pack and who the player was on the reverse. But I remember seeing different players.

One guy I know has a cello with FF on top/bottom.

Some 1989 Fleer doesnt have and Bill Ripkens in them at all (saw cut era and Fleer was on the ball doing their job)
These also have a few players around Bill missing or out of order. I've found this happen in legit selaed cases of rack and cello. Never opened a wax case.

mmync

<< <i>All of the Fleer and Donruss from 1981 until about 1992 were all sequenced.


Not all. 1989 Fleer is for the most part sequenced. I have seen different patterns within the same packaging method. 2 to be exact. For Griffey and Bill. Didnt note or notice patterns for other players. I think 3 for Bill but Im sure on 2. (notes are at home)

I used to track (not anymore) FF versions on top/bottom of pack and who the player was on the reverse. But I remember seeing different players.

One guy I know has a cello with FF on top/bottom.

Some 1989 Fleer doesnt have and Bill Ripkens in them at all (saw cut era and Fleer was on the ball doing their job)
These also have a few players around Bill missing or out of order. I've found this happen in legit selaed cases of rack and cello. Never opened a wax case. >>



I opened a 89 fleer rack case not to long ago and I wrote down the pattern for the ff, griffey, and johnson I think. If you ever need it let me know

stevek

<< <i>So I guess the only way that all cards in cello boxes would be mint, is if they were wrapped loosely, and stayed stationary since that day. Correct? >>



And of course those are the ones that the dealer is going to bust himself and get graded - he's not going to send you a "known" pack containing gem mint 10 cards.

That is one reason why busting packs bought from a dealer and trying to make money is a waste of money. Bust for fun, yes...bust for profit, unlikely.

Leiascards

Most cello and racks were sequenced I remember in the late 80s and early 90s Ed Berry has a list for every rack pack made in the previous 15 years he could look at the top cards match them to that list and know who was in every pack.

1989 Fleer Chris Sabo was a key to finding the Ripken card.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

<< <i>Most cello and racks were sequenced I remember in the late 80s and early 90s Ed Berry has a list for every rack pack made in the previous 15 years he could look at the top cards match them to that list and know who was in every pack.

1989 Fleer Chris Sabo was a key to finding the Ripken card. >>



Thanks again for pointing that out. Your so great.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

<< <i>

<< <i>All of the Fleer and Donruss from 1981 until about 1992 were all sequenced.


Not all. 1989 Fleer is for the most part sequenced. I have seen different patterns within the same packaging method. 2 to be exact. For Griffey and Bill. Didnt note or notice patterns for other players. I think 3 for Bill but Im sure on 2. (notes are at home)

I used to track (not anymore) FF versions on top/bottom of pack and who the player was on the reverse. But I remember seeing different players.

One guy I know has a cello with FF on top/bottom.

Some 1989 Fleer doesnt have and Bill Ripkens in them at all (saw cut era and Fleer was on the ball doing their job)
These also have a few players around Bill missing or out of order. I've found this happen in legit selaed cases of rack and cello. Never opened a wax case. >>



I opened a 89 fleer rack case not to long ago and I wrote down the pattern for the ff, griffey, and johnson I think. If you ever need it let me know >>



Thanks for the offer but I'll pass. I used to write them down to note the different patterns but have no need to track that info anymore.

Aside from being asked "Whats the most valuable FF card" Requests for collation patterns and how to tell what versions are in what cases is the majority of questions I'm asked. In case your wondering.

lsutigers1973

<< <i>Ed Berry has a list for every rack pack >>



Told you that guy was a crook. Not to mention had the nerve of accusing me of stealing from him 17 years ago. Plus, he told me I was a crook for selling mystery packs to kids at cards shows. Before anyone asks, the mystery packs I sold at my booth were sealed envelopes with at least $20 in book value for $5. I also had a 1989 UD Griffey and 1984 Donruss Mattingly (2 hottest cards at the time) inserted into 2 different packs. This is at the time when the Mattingly was selling for $100.