Should I be worried about a fake? (Roman)

covers

I checked wildwinds site regarding a Roman Republic coin and found an ex "Triton II" coin (first image below). Another 49 on the same site seem to conform to this die. Another shows the palladium "broken". The coin I question is the second image below which is apparently a different die, or a fake. Any thoughts?

svessien

Here's a search in Forgerynetworks database for the coin.
I dare not say more than that forgeries of this type exist :
Link

covers

Svein - Thank you - coin is in a ICG slab and it still didn't inspire me.

avgcounterfiticus

Hi Svein,

The coin appears to me to have been hammered. Do you agree ? And if so, How much security do you think that offers us buyers? Thanks.

theboz11

How much security do you think that offers us buyers? Thanks.

No matter what field you decide to collect, find Books and any information you can find on Counterfiets for the series or type. It will save you alot of money in the long run

covers

Thanks all - the obverse is below (it is on ebay)

I will say that, having a great deal of experience expertising philatelic items, everybody makes mistakes. I am very new to Romans so I did a lot of work before deciding if I was going to buy the coin or not. That research made me uncomfortable and part of that was asking here. In the end, as a buyer, one has to learn to judge for themselves. I am sure that no expert slabbing group has the time to do as much work.

I might also add that I am more comfortable comparing examples with known genuine, than depending on comparison with forged examples. New forgeries come out, etc.

CIVITAS

The coin is probably authentic. It's definitely struck, and is not a cast.

Style does tend to vary a bit on these coins. While the reverse style of the coin in question is not the commonly seen style, it seems OK. The die polish/working lines on the reverse seem correct. The large serifs on the letters are not uncommon. The obverse die style is just fine, although the die was well worn when this coin was struck. Because it's in a slab, it's very hard to judge the overall fabric of the flan and the weight, so I can't comment on those factors. The cloudy insert around the coin gives it an unnaturally round look, but it's just an optical illusion. Crawford estimates 433 different reverse dies for this issue, so finding an exact die match to another coin is probably going to be a bit difficult, especially if the coin in question is an uncommon die pairing.

Blackborder

Coin looks genuine in my opinion but an inferior example from worn dies. I'd pass on it.

svessien

"The coin appears to me to have been hammered. Do you agree ?"
http://www.beastcoins.com/Fakes/Fakes.htm
Hi. I don't know if you are refering to OP's coin, or the coin in my link, but I would believe the coin in the Forgerynetwork database is a
pressure cast fake. As the article in the link will tell you, there are also die-struck/pressed fakes, which are even more difficult to discover.

"How much security do you think that offers us buyers?"
As ancient coin collectors, I don't think we can expect 100% security - the closest we can get is to buy from dealers that are 100% serious and professional. Needless to say, ebay is not the online resource for finding such dealers, although there are IMO some good dealers there too. I never buy rare coins on ebay. You will most often end up paying about as much or more than you would pay at other venues anyway. (Well, that is to say, I made some wonderful bargains in the early days of my collecting on ebay, and those "bargains" now reside in my black cabinet :-))

svessien

"I will say that, having a great deal of experience expertising philatelic items, everybody makes mistakes. I am very new to Romans so I did a lot of work before deciding if I was going to buy the coin or not. That research made me uncomfortable and part of that was asking here. In the end, as a buyer, one has to learn to judge for themselves. I am sure that no expert slabbing group has the time to do as much work."

Richard - I can only congratulate you with getting into a grreat hobby, and send my best wishes for you, hoping that you will avoid losing a lot of money buying fakes. I think about it this way: I know I'm not able to get a full overwiew of all fakes, and I'm certain there are coins in my collection that I believe are genuine, but are not. However, I believe that if I learn enough about fakes in general and sources for buying coins in general (auction sites, B&M dealers, and so on), and only deal with reputable dealers, the % chance of buying a fake coin drops dramatically, down to odds that I can deal with. This hobby is so exiting, and you learn so much from it, that I personlly think I can afford an occasional mistake.


"I might also add that I am more comfortable comparing examples with known genuine, than depending on comparison with forged examples. New forgeries come out, etc"

I'm certain that you have found the sites wildwinds and Coin Archives, which are two of my favorite sites (especially coinarchives.) Another great resource is Digital Historia Numorum.

Good luck!

svessien

I would also recommend joining this group and subscribe to its newsletters.

avgcounterfiticus

Hi Svein,
Yes, I was talking about the op's coin. Always interested in reading your posts.
Thanks.

covers

Svein - Thank you. I have found those sites you list and have particulary found wildwinds very useful. Also, I have purchased only from vetted dealers who advertise in the "Celeator" except for a few ICG slabbed coins purchased on eBay. Good dealers also make mistakes both ways regarding authenticity.

I don't know if that coin I questioned is genuine or not, but I am concerned enough not to bid, and the quality is borderline nice enough anyhow. I am not paranoid about fakes and foregeries, as about every good, large collection will undoubtedly have a few.