In your opinion what card is currently undervalued on ebay(1970-Present day)
jswieton
Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭
I have noticed that you can find some steels on ebay (raw cards)for any football card during the 1980's
Example Rice rc, montana rc, Elway rc, Marino rc. It seems that when you go into the 90's and above the higher end cards seem to be holding there value a little bit better then cards from a decade or two ago.
Example Rice rc, montana rc, Elway rc, Marino rc. It seems that when you go into the 90's and above the higher end cards seem to be holding there value a little bit better then cards from a decade or two ago.
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<< <i>I have noticed that you can find some steels on ebay (raw cards)for any football card during the 1980's
Example Rice rc, montana rc, Elway rc, Marino rc. It seems that when you go into the 90's and above the higher end cards seem to be holding there value a little bit better then cards from a decade or two ago. >>
70s and 80s were mass produced, and the supply will always outweigh the demand...the manufacturers got smart and started limiting production on a lot of the more current stuff...plus of course they are the "current hype".
<< <i>
<< <i>I have noticed that you can find some steels on ebay (raw cards)for any football card during the 1980's
Example Rice rc, montana rc, Elway rc, Marino rc. It seems that when you go into the 90's and above the higher end cards seem to be holding there value a little bit better then cards from a decade or two ago. >>
70s and 80s were mass produced, and the supply will always outweigh the demand...the manufacturers got smart and started limiting production on a lot of the more current stuff...plus of course they are the "current hype". >>
As far as the most undervalued cards post 1970...i dont have a clue as to football, but for baseball, i would say vladimir guerrero and manny ramirez rare cards and on-card autos are the most undervalued. (of course the high risk prospects too, but vladdy and manny are definetely underpriced).
<< <i>No rhyme or reason, case in point Nolan Ryan Rookie cards have dropped in value by a larger percentage of hghest value than Pete Rose rookies. Explain that. I am talking about raw "book" value. >>
The 1968 set was probably the most mass produced set of the decade.
On an unrelated note, anyone want to buy 1,000 90 fleer Sean Elliott RCs?
<< <i> I agree with the Manny cards. With the exception of the 92 Bowman, I have tried to sell his other rookies on ebay but eventually gave up when they received no bids. Vlad on the other hand is overvalued in my opinion, unless you believe his stats to this point qualify him for the HOF. He appears to be this generations version of Andre Dawson. Played on concrete in Montreal early in his career and now has no knees left. >>
I think Andre Dawson cards should be undervalued as he should be a HOF player and was one of the best during his era.
PEREZ-STEELs?
1982 Topps Montana - can get PSA 8 for around $10 - Second year card of one of the greatest QBs of all time.
1983 Topps Ripken - undervalued in PSA 8 and 9. can get under $10 - another great second year card. Card used to sell above $30.
1978 - 1987 Topps Paytons - PSA 8s usually found under $10-$15 and sometimes less.
Another card that is becoming undervalued (in PSA 8) is the Elway rookie...that card is creaping downward to $30.
These cards are all over 20 years old, and in great condition.
<< <i>I agree with the Manny cards. With the exception of the 92 Bowman, I have tried to sell his other rookies on ebay but eventually gave up when they received no bids. Vlad on the other hand is overvalued in my opinion, unless you believe his stats to this point qualify him for the HOF. He appears to be this generations version of Andre Dawson. Played on concrete in Montreal early in his career and now has no knees left. >>
I don't know where you have been sleeping, but Vlad is an easy lock for HOF, even if he retired today!
The only MANNY rookies that are even close to rare that will be ever worth anything are his Topps Gold and His Front Row auto...others were too mass produced...both of these two cards are undervalued, and both in gem will bring over $100 each today.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I am almost certain that almost everything is overvalued.
I have some limited confidence that SUPER scarce, high-end stuff
might hold some value during the next five-years. Most other
stuff is likely toilet bound.
<< <i>"In your opinion what card is currently undervalued on ebay(1970-Present day)"
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I am almost certain that almost everything is overvalued.
I have some limited confidence that SUPER scarce, high-end stuff
might hold some value during the next five-years. Most other
stuff is likely toilet bound. >>
Not Pujols 2001 Chrome according to a couple individuals...
<< <i>I've always thought that compared to today's overhyped RC's, the early 80's RC of Gwynn, Boggs, Sandberg, Mattingly, Ripken. etc.etc. can be found way less than waht they should be. Yes, there was/is a lot out there, but when you figure that cards of Sosa and the like went as high as 10 bux, compared to these guys whose RC can be had for single digits sometimes, they are low. >>
Too many of them...only PSA 10/BGS 9.5 graded of these will ever be worth anything.
Rookies of:
PSA 9+ Rickey Henderson, Ripken,
PSA 10 Gwynn, Sandberg,Boggs,Donruss/Fleer Glossy Maddux, Topps Gold Manny
PSA 9+ TIffany Rookies of any HOF'er or Future HOF'er especially Griffey
Any grade of these NM+
Refractors or limited print rookies (preferably under 500) of any future HOFER (and especially rookie autos)
More later...on my lunch break
<< <i>I will add a couple more to the list of post 70s undervalued cards
Rookies of:
PSA 9+ Rickey Henderson, Ripken,
PSA 10 Gwynn, Sandberg,Boggs,Donruss/Fleer Glossy Maddux, Topps Gold Manny
PSA 9+ TIffany Rookies of any HOF'er or Future HOF'er especially Griffey
Any grade of these NM+
Refractors or limited print rookies (preferably under 500) of any future HOFER (and especially rookie autos)
More later...on my lunch break >>
This stuff you mentioned above is undervalued? Really? Considering there are tons of this stuff out there, I don't see it. Especially with professional trimmers who can clean up the nice 9's, to get past the graders, for 10's.
You never cease to amaze me with another 01' Bowman Chrome Pujols pop off.. You truly can't get over that card. Probably just jealous you don't own one. I understand, Mike. It's an obvious obsession of yours.
Less than 500 of the Pujols, yet, there are literally thousands of the cards you claim are undervalued. Just too funny..
Whatever they sell for on eBay (on average) is what they are worth in the real world. This goes for every single collectible out there.
<< <i>
<< <i>I will add a couple more to the list of post 70s undervalued cards
Rookies of:
PSA 9+ Rickey Henderson, Ripken,
PSA 10 Gwynn, Sandberg,Boggs,Donruss/Fleer Glossy Maddux, Topps Gold Manny
PSA 9+ TIffany Rookies of any HOF'er or Future HOF'er especially Griffey
Any grade of these NM+
Refractors or limited print rookies (preferably under 500) of any future HOFER (and especially rookie autos)
More later...on my lunch break >>
This stuff you mentioned above is undervalued? Really? Considering there are tons of this stuff out there, I don't see it. Especially with professional trimmers who can clean up the nice 9's, to get past the graders, for 10's.
You never cease to amaze me with another 01' Bowman Chrome Pujols pop off.. You truly can't get over that card. Probably just jealous you don't own one. I understand, Mike. It's an obvious obsession of yours.
Less than 500 of the Pujols, yet, there are literally thousands of the cards you claim are undervalued. Just too funny.. >>
REally? How many PSA 10 Rickey Hendersons are there?
Yes, as I have stated many times, I am jealous of not owning the 2001 Bowman Chrome, but know that I will some day, when i feel the price is right...right now I believe it is overvalued. If he got hurt today and never played again, his cards would plummet. Even when he has a great season, his cards are coming down. That just proves my point that they are overvalued. It is also why you keep seeing them listed without selling, over and over again. The sellers want what the buyers wont pay.
There may be some out there that say a Rickey rookie is a rickey rookie..and there are those like me that say I wouldn't want anything less than a 9. To each their own, which is why i put the stipulation in there about the grade. Any lower grades of these cards i feel are either over priced or priced right, as there are just too many of them in the grade. I consider the grade important, if you don't that is fine.
Also note, that i stated "most" of the future hofers limited print rookies post 1970s are undervalued...the pujols would fall into that category as i what i consider worthy of being in my collection...just not at todays prices.
Big difference between a naturally scarce item and an artificially scarce item.
Artificially (intentionally) scarce items are called "limited edition". A Limited Edition collectible will never reach the value most people think they will.
ie Beanie Babies, Modern sports cards (post1980) especially 1/XXX, Franklin Mint, collector plates, etc.
For a collectible to become naturally scare, it need to be played with, used and abused, and a high % destroyed over time. And when first purchased the item is not thought to be an investment with long term value (thus hoarded in large numbers in MINT condition).
ie. old comics, cards, tootsie toys, matchbox, stamps, cars, Stieff teddy bears, coins, Barbies, Pez dispensers (Pez is how eBay started if you didnt know).
It functions within the general economy, and is affected by the
positive/negative things that happen in the economic lives of
collectors.
Folks who rely solely on prices paid by "rich collectors" to identify
rising markets are destined to be bagholders. The trend is always
your friend, until it turns the other way.
CASH is a VERY good thing to have. If you have lots of it when the
collectibles market goes into freefall, you can get rich with buy/hold.
There is way too much optimisim for anybody to declare that we
are at/near a bottom in the value of MOST collectibles.
JUST because something is selling for less than it was a year ago,
is NO indication that it is "undervalued." It is time to wait.
<< <i>Boba made a good point.
Big difference between a naturally scarce item and an artificially scarce item.
Artificially (intentionally) scarce items are called "limited edition". a Limited Edition collectible will never reach the value most people thing they will.
ie Beanie Babies, Modern sports cards (post1980) especially 1/XXX, Franklin Mint, collector plates, etc.
>>
I disagree...and the proof is in the pudding...many of the limited print rookies sell for quite high, EVEN higher than most people would think.
The only thing that i think is really debateable with these "intentionally scarce' items is future value....I believe future value will be good if they are a classic card and if the player remains HOF or famous worthy.
<< <i>I have never seen the collectibles market operate in a vacuum.
It functions within the general economy, and is affected by the
positive/negative things that happen in the economic lives of
collectors.
Folks who rely solely on prices paid by "rich collectors" to identify
rising markets are destined to be bagholders. The trend is always
your friend, until it turns the other way.
CASH is a VERY good thing to have. If you have lots of it when the
collectibles market goes into freefall, you can get rich with buy/hold.
There is way too much optimisim for anybody to declare that we
are at/near a bottom in the value of MOST collectibles.
JUST because something is selling for less than it was a year ago,
is NO indication that it is "undervalued." It is time to wait. >>
Very true, and there is no telling what the future holds...but one thing that is true, if we do have an economic collapse, and then it rebounds, cards have proven to last through the "worst of times", and I don't think that will change.
//////////////////////////////////
Yup.
Pierre started the thing so that his then girlfriend would
have a place to display and sell her PEZ collection.
Good for her that she sold lots of them. Pierre's marketplace
allowed the early arrivals to pay too much on the buy side,
and brought MILLIONS of "rare/scarce" items to market.
EBAY delivered BOTH a liquid-market and declining prices for
collectibles. And, the drama is nowhere near its end.
in value over time, rather it be by $1 or $1000, just that I believe there is an upside to the cards.
That is, that I believe the cards are more likely to increase than decrease over time.
Of course with any current players, there is a high risk depending on how the player performs
for the remainder of his career and any news or lack of news he makes.
<< <i>Very true, and there is no telling what the future holds...but one thing that is true, if we do have an economic collapse, and then it rebounds, cards have proven to last through the "worst of times", and I don't think that will change. >>
A month ago or so I compared the Beckett values from 1989 to VCP auction values today. For the most part, post-war baseball cards (which were the only ones I looked at) have not kept up with inflation.
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I'll gladly take the Pujols over the stuff I see you buying and posting on these boards every week, but that's just me. Less than 500 of the Pujols exists, and even if he went down today, he would be a HOF'er. The card would not plummet, unlike your thinking.
As for Henderson and any other card that you mentioned, with time, more and more of them will be graded, regraded bump ups, and trimmed to be a PSA 10 or BGS 9.5. It happens, and is becoming more frequent with some of the professional trimmers. There is a guy on the east coast(not K Burge), who is affiliated with a paper printing company and has access to professional cutting equipment that can shave a fraction and make it look like a factory cut card to get past the graders of either BGS or PSA. He does it all the time, and I can guarantee he is not the only one doing this stuff. It's a market some of these dishonest guys are working for a quick buck on the graded market buyers.
Not to mention, there is still plenty of unopened wax sitting in warehouses. I know a guy who has over 250 cases of unopened product from 1979-1992 in his storage facility. There is plenty of it to go around, and over time more and more will be busted and mint 9's and gem mint 10's revealed. Why do you think people like 4SC are grading stuff by the truck load??
EDIT: to add
<< <i>I don't know where you have been sleeping, but Vlad is an easy lock for HOF, even if he retired today! >>
What rock have you been sleeping under? Since when is 2000 hits and less than 400 HR's in the steroid era a lock for the HOF?
<< <i>Glad to see you are still preaching the same sermon, Mike. I am not surprised anymore.
I'll gladly take the Pujols over the stuff I see you buying and posting on these boards every week, but that's just me. Less than 500 of the Pujols exists, and even if he went down today, he would be a HOF'er. The card would not plummet, unlike your thinking.
As for Henderson and any other card that you mentioned, with time, more and more of them will be graded, regraded bump ups, and trimmed to be a PSA 10 or BGS 9.5. It happens, and is becoming more frequent with some of the professional trimmers. There is a guy on the east coast(not K Burge), who is affiliated with a paper printing company and has access to professional cutting equipment that can shave a fraction and make it look like a factory cut card to get past the graders of either BGS or PSA. He does it all the time, and I can guarantee he is not the only one doing this stuff. It's a market some of these dishonest guys are working for a quick buck on the graded market buyers.
Not to mention, there is still plenty of unopened wax sitting in warehouses. I know a guy who has over 250 cases of unopened product from 1979-1992 in his storage facility. There is plenty of it to go around, and over time more and more will be busted and mint 9's and gem mint 10's revealed. Why do you think people like 4SC are grading stuff by the truck load??
EDIT: to add >>
Sure I would prefer PUJOLS CHROME card over any of the cards I stated as well...it is more valuable and a more classic card. I just say it is not a good value at this time.
Well, something else we disagree on...you think his cards would not plummet if he was injured and his career was ended??
I am not going to wish that...i hope he does well...i am just waiting for a bad season (may have to wait awhile) ...
His cards are overvalued and is proof that it continues to come down, and that they continue to list without winners on a regular basis.
IMO, i just don't believe it fits the category "undervalued".
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know where you have been sleeping, but Vlad is an easy lock for HOF, even if he retired today! >>
What rock have you been sleeping under? Since when is 2000 hits and less than 400 HR's in the steroid era a lock for the HOF? >>
Well, he is the only player besides gehrig with 11+ consecutive seasons batting over 300 and 25HR. Granted, baseball reference isn't a say all, but there aren't any players with a HOF Monitor above 150 that aren't either in the HOF or a HOF lock besides the known steroid users and Pete Rose.
IMO - To think Vlad isn't a shoe in, is ignorant to who he is....but that's ok...he is probably one of the most underrated, undervalued, and unrecognized current players, mainly because of his time with Canadian teams (believe me they all love him and appreciate him for who he is). He also hasn't made it to many playoffs, and when he has, he choked....I hope he has future opportunities, and can shine, but he isn't getting any younger. He had a slow start this year but has gone from 235 to 290 in a very short time, so I have hope.
Similar Batters through Age 31
Compare Stats
1. Willie Mays (905) *
2. Frank Robinson (889) *
3. Duke Snider (876) *
4. Manny Ramirez (875)
5. Juan Gonzalez (874)
6. Hank Aaron (872) *
7. Mickey Mantle (841) *
8. Ken Griffey (841)
9. Goose Goslin (840) *
10. Al Simmons (833) *
<< <i>
<< <i>Very true, and there is no telling what the future holds...but one thing that is true, if we do have an economic collapse, and then it rebounds, cards have proven to last through the "worst of times", and I don't think that will change. >>
A month ago or so I compared the Beckett values from 1989 to VCP auction values today. For the most part, post-war baseball cards (which were the only ones I looked at) have not kept up with inflation. >>
Well, first, you can't compare catalog value to sell value, but even if you could,
A complete MINT 1952 set of topps in 1979 was $4,300....i would say that slightly beats inflation.
To think vintage hasn't way past inflation,...uh, i would just suggest a little more research...
<< <i>Vlad is actually 32 but considering his place of birth, he is probably about 35 with the knees of a 60 year old. >>
He is Still a lock, even if he was 40...
<< <i>
I disagree...and the proof is in the pudding...many of the limited print rookies sell for quite high, EVEN higher than most people would think.
The only thing that i think is really debateable with these "intentionally scarce' items is future value....I believe future value will be good if they are a classic card and if the player remains HOF or famous worthy. >>
I disagree on this point. Unless the player ends up as one of the all time, all time greats (Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, etc.) a player's cards will only go down after they retire. The new generation of fans is generally detached and the player moves away from the public's eye and hence loses popularity.
For example, unless Pujols hits 700 or 800 HR at the end of the day his cards are going to drop off. It has happened with numerous HOFers before, and it will happen again.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I disagree...and the proof is in the pudding...many of the limited print rookies sell for quite high, EVEN higher than most people would think.
The only thing that i think is really debateable with these "intentionally scarce' items is future value....I believe future value will be good if they are a classic card and if the player remains HOF or famous worthy. >>
I disagree on this point. Unless the player ends up as one of the all time, all time greats (Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, etc.) a player's cards will only go down after they retire. The new generation of fans is generally detached and the player moves away from the public's eye and hence loses popularity.
For example, unless Pujols hits 700 or 800 HR at the end of the day his cards are going to drop off. It has happened with numerous HOFers before, and it will happen again. >>
Just about every HOF rookie has gone up over the years except for the mass produced 70s 80s stuff....so time will dictate. Of course there is a cycle and once they bottom out after retirement, there isn't any place for them to go but up. The young collectors that can only think of owning a pujols card today, will one day be able to afford it as he reaches his golden years....
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>Until MLB starts testing for human growth hormones (HGH) I won't touch any cards of Vlad, Manny or Pujols. I won't spend my hard earned money on any player from the steriod-HGH era unless I know they are unequivocably clean. I've already been burned with fakes and frauds like Bonds and McGwire and I won't let it happen again--period!!!!!!! >>
Do you collect any current players at all? or only vintage for you?
IMO - It sure would take the fun out of it at least for me not to buy any cards of my favorite current players.
The main thing i don't like about vintage, is that just about any card i would want, i can search for and find several of them on ebay any day of the week....it kind of takes the challenge out of the hunt. I personally don't like buying cards of players I either never watched or they never made a big impact on the sport. Every card in my collection, i either watched play, or they are quite famous.
<< <i>
A complete MINT 1952 set of topps in 1979 was $4,300....i would say that slightly beats inflation.
To think vintage hasn't way past inflation,...uh, i would just suggest a little more research... >>
I said 1989, not 1979. Yeah, you'd have gotten yourself a pretty nice investment if you picked up your collection in 1979, but that boat has already left the dock.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
A complete MINT 1952 set of topps in 1979 was $4,300....i would say that slightly beats inflation.
To think vintage hasn't way past inflation,...uh, i would just suggest a little more research... >>
I said 1989, not 1979. Yeah, you'd have gotten yourself a pretty nice investment if you picked up your collection in 1979, but that boat has already left the dock. >>
I didn't have a 1989 catalog only a 1979 one...
Do me a favor and check your catalog for these key cards....EX or better
1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb Green portrait
1933 ruth (any variety)
1934 gehrig #37
1939 williams,dimaggio
1948 musial
1948-49 leaf jackie
1952 mantle
1952 mays
1954 hank aaron
1955 koufax
1957 frank robinson
1959 gibson
1963 rose
1964 rose
Those i consider a small sampling of investment cards...what have they done since 1989, and to be honest i really do not know the answer,
but I would bet they have easily beat out inflation....and the higher the grade, the better the investment.
1989 EX prices - 1989 Prices with inflation to 2007- 2008 July SMR PSA 5 prices - (inflation of 1989 money to 2007 value)
1948 musial = $350 ($606) vs $365
1948-49 leaf jackie = not listed
1949 Bowman Jackie = $350 ($606) vs $425
1952 mantle = $3600 ($6234) vs $15,000
1952 mays = $600 ($1039) vs $850
1954 hank aaron = $600 ($1039) vs $625
1955 koufax = $325 ($563) vs $350
1957 frank robinson = $100 ($173) vs $100
1959 gibson = $150 ($208) vs $120
1963 rose = $400 ($692) vs $350
1964 rose = $100 ($173) vs $65
Midgrade vintage hasn't done well, except for Mickey Mantle cards.
Yes, the higher the grade, the better the investment, specially since the emphasis on condition wasn't as strong as it is now that the graders have entered the ring and got everyone involved. If you paid 25% mark-up over book for a PSA 9 quality card vintage card, you'd have made some major money.
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Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>The Beckett doesn't list anything prior to 1948 Bowman, so I'll start there:
1989 EX prices - 1989 Prices with inflation to 2007- 2008 July SMR PSA 5 prices - (inflation of 1989 money to 2007 value)
1948 musial = $350 ($606) vs $365
1948-49 leaf jackie = not listed
1949 Bowman Jackie = $350 ($606) vs $425
1952 mantle = $3600 ($6234) vs $15,000
1952 mays = $600 ($1039) vs $850
1954 hank aaron = $600 ($1039) vs $625
1955 koufax = $325 ($563) vs $350
1957 frank robinson = $100 ($173) vs $100
1959 gibson = $150 ($208) vs $120
1963 rose = $400 ($692) vs $350
1964 rose = $100 ($173) vs $65
Midgrade vintage hasn't done well, except for Mickey Mantle cards.
Yes, the higher the grade, the better the investment, specially since the emphasis on condition wasn't as strong as it is now that the graders have entered the ring and got everyone involved. If you paid 25% mark-up over book for a PSA 9 quality card vintage card, you'd have made some major money. >>
Fascinating post. Where did you get the rate of inflation to calculate from? Is there a calculator (like a widget for Mac) somewhere?
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<< <i>If Pujols was hurt today he would NOT be a HOFer and his cards would tank like the Titanic. His only hope of maintaining those high levels is to challenge a major record or win the triple crown. >>
You're quite wrong. Pujols would be in a situation much like Koufax was. Based on mere dominance, and the eye popping numbers put up. A career .332 batting average, and the fourth best slugging % in the history of MLB, at .621, is nothing the HOF could turn a blind eye to. Also, taking into acount he is accomplishing what no player has ever done in MLB, an MVP, and a World Series Championship, would be enough to get him elected if he went down today.