Damaged while shipping
jswieton
Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭
I recently purchased a card from ebay that was listed by beckett for $80 and I purchased it from the seller for $35, the card was listed as mint. When he packaged the card he just put the card in a top loaded hard case and placed it in a padded envelope. While in transit the card had slipped out of the card holder and one of the corners got bent. The seller is unwilling to take any responsibility for the card even though in my opinion he did not package the card correctly. He says that it was mint when he put it into the envelope and it is my fault for not contacting him in advance for insurance. He was very rude in regards to the whole situation. Am I wrong here? Is there anything I can do?
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Comments
<< <i> Freakin idiot seller! I've had the exact same situation happen twice. How hard is it to put a piece of tape over the top loader?? Both times, I was fortunate enough that the seller was willing to take the card back. File a complaint with Ebay. Explain the situation. Maybe they can help resolve it??? >>
Very true
I do the tape trick as well and use a blue masking tape which is very low tack and easy to peel but I'm sure any tape is good.
to the buyer as advertised.
If you paid via PayPal, file a SNAD claim. PP will tell you to return
the card to the seller, using Delivery Confirmation. When the
seller has the card back, PP will refund your money.
When using PP, insurance is primarily for the protection of the seller.
Message #1
FOR ONE THE CARD WAS IN MINT CONDITION I JUST PULLED IT OUT OF A PACK AN LISTED IT FOR TWO I DONT DO REFUNDS I NEVER HAVE I SELL VERY NICE CARDS NOT BAD ONES I GUESS IM GOIN TO HAVE 2 JUST START CHARGEING PEOPLR FOR INSURENCE AUTOMATICALLY BUT IT WAS UP 2 THE BUYER 2 ADD INSURENCE IM NOT TRYN 2 BE MEAN BUT IM NOT GOIN TO TAKE SOMETHING BACK THAT WAS NOT DAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHEN SHIPPED OUT
Message #2
HOW WAS THIS CARD INCORRECTLY SHIPPED? DID MY DESCRIPTION SAY THAT I WAS GOING TO SHIP IT ANY CERTAIN WAY? NO!! THATS WHAT INSURANCE IS FOR.. THE CARD WAS PERFECTLY FINE WHEN IT WAS SHIPPED.. IT WAS IN A BUBBLE WRAP ENVELOPE SO I DONT SEE HOW IT COULD GET BENT UP.. IF IT DID THATS THE POSTAL SERVICES FAULT..THANKS
<< <i>How bout posting the sellers id so we can all add him to our blocked list on ebay. That guy sounds like a real ahole. >>
Yes!! No kidding! What's this moron's Ebay ID?
Good luck!
Jeff
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Working on:
Football
1973 Topps PSA 8+ (99.81%)
1976 Topps PSA 9+ (36.36%)
1977 Topps PSA 9+ (100%)
Baseball
1938 Goudey (56.25%)
1951 Topps Redbacks PSA 8 (100%)
1952 Bowman PSA 7+ (63.10%)
1953 Topps PSA 5+ (91.24%)
1973 Topps PSA 8+ (70.76%)
1985 Fleer PSA 10 (54.85%)
<< <i>In a PayPal transaction, the seller is responsible to get the item
to the buyer as advertised.
If you paid via PayPal, file a SNAD claim. PP will tell you to return
the card to the seller, using Delivery Confirmation. When the
seller has the card back, PP will refund your money.
When using PP, insurance is primarily for the protection of the seller. >>
Exactly right, and make sure you save all packaging materials. USPS will not pay an insurance claim with poor packaging, so even if you did pay for insurance it would have been money wasted.
My failure to buy insurance does not absolve the seller of his duty to package it properly.
<< <i>Exactly right, and make sure you save all packaging materials. USPS will not pay an insurance claim with poor packaging, so even if you did pay for insurance it would have been money wasted.
My failure to buy insurance does not absolve the seller of his duty to package it properly. >>
Absolutely true. File a Paypal claim, you will win and have your refund withoout dealing with the retard.
Mike
Kirby Puckett Master Set
FILE a SNAD claim with PP, now.
I remain amazed EVERYDAY by the number of sellers who simply do not know the rules.
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Interesting related note:
When is it in a buyer's interest to pay for USPS insurance in a PayPal trasaction?
PayPal always accepts Delivery Confirmation as "proof" that the seller performed.
PayPal will not find for a buyer in such an INR claim.
In the rare instance that an item with Delivery Confirmation is misdelivered by
the USPS, a buyer/seller can file an insurance claim with USPS, IF insurance
was purchased. The claim will be paid if the paperwork is found to be in order.
The USPS knows that sometimes a DC item does not make it to the right place.
This is virtually the only circumstance under which it is to the buyer's benefit
to pay for insurance in a PayPal transaction.
Only reply to paypal when needed.
It was the sellers responcibility to purchase insurance.
Steve
Isn't that only if the 'seller' has money in an account?
Or do they pay it out then get it from the seller at a later date?
Steve
I tried the user name you provided and got the above.
Are you sure you spelled the name right?
Steve
<< <i>You dont have to ask for a refund, just file a claim with paypal as snad and they will refund you.
Isn't that only if the 'seller' has money in an account?
Or do they pay it out then get it from the seller at a later date?
Steve >>
Steve, even if they don't have money in their account I have seen Paypal eat the refund on smaller items, <$50. I think this is the reason behind why they want to withhold funds on new ebay accounts.
Kirby Puckett Master Set
in the listing.
When a seller has no money in their PP account and a buyer wins a
claim, PP sends an email stating the same. Within 10-days, however,
PP makes a deposit of the total amount awarded to the buyer.
They wait the extra time to try to convince the seller to cough-up the cash.
MOST buyers freak when they get the first email, but it is just how it works.
PP makes good, eventually.
In this case, even if the item had been insured, it would be difficult to recover a claim as the item was unsecurely packaged. The USPS may pay the claim, but based on the fact that the card was not secured, they could easily deny it.
In any event, the seller is responsible in this matter. As mentioned, file the claim, leave a negative, and wait for your refund (and a nasty email or two from the seller -- save all correspondence).
Just a hint for people that ship cards in toploaders. Even though it is a little more (less than a penny), sealing the toploader(s) in a resealable team bag protects the card(s), eliminates the need to tape the top and allows the buyer to have a toploader that can be reused. A win-win for the buyer and seller as the buyer will probably leave "happier" feedback. I've used this for toploads and CS1s for several years as I put a tamper evident seals over the teambag seal on raw cards. It eliminates the old switch-a-roo!
Mike
You did the right thing by filing the claim. And, as mentioned earlier, even if you HAD purchased insurance, you likely wouldn't have won a claim anyway since it wasn't packed properly. And if you HAD won that claim - the $$$ go to the seller not you. You'd have to rely on him to refund you after that.
Tabe
that insurance is up to them. When a person sells for the first time it should be drilled into there heads.
Steve
that insurance is up to them. When a person sells for the first time it should be drilled
into there heads."
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
It's because there is well-settled law - in the real world - that a seller may NOT
be responsible for the safe arrival of goods. Many contracts in B2B transactions
call for the buyer to fund the insurance, or fly naked.
EBAY sellers, in the begining, tried to tranfer this concept into B2C/C2C deals.
That system worked until PayPal and credit-cards got into the mix.
A mailorder company - even if they accept credit cards - has every right to demand
that a buyer fund the insurance, or go some other place to shop.
EBAY and PayPal rules trump UCC AND contracts between persons, when
deals are made on EBAY and paid via PP.
Large online vendors - WMT etc. - guarantee delivery because the cost of
insurance is built into the cost-of-goods-sold. They are obliged by market
conditions to make such a guarantee. Large vendors who can charge extra
for insurance do it everyday, and it is perfectly legal; BUT they seldom let
stuff out the door uninsured, EVEN if they do not collect the ins-fee from their
buyer.
The little guys selling on EBAY think they can play by the real rules. On
EBAY, ONLY EBAY and PayPal and credit-card rules apply.
EBAY sales that are paid via checks and MOs, bring no liability on the
seller to "guarantee" delivery. Buyers who pay with paper better
ALWAYS make sure their items are insured, or they will usually be out
of luck if their item is lost/damaged.
PayPal and EBAY have a distinct interest in making sure that sellers
know as little as possible about the "rules," until after it is too late.
Steve
It covers most of the possibilities.
(My favorite argument is that "any item sold with a money-back-guarantee is an 'approval sale.'")
...............................
Filed 9/2/05
CERTIFIED FOR PUBLICATION
IN THE COURT OF APPEAL OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
FIRST APPELLATE DISTRICT
DIVISION ONE
JACQ WILSON et al.,
Plaintiffs and Respondents,
v.
BRAWN OF CALIFORNIA, INC.,
Defendant and Appellant.
A105461, A106368
(San Francisco County
Super. Ct. No. 404454)
The San Francisco Superior Court entered judgment against Brawn of California (Brawn), a mail order company, ruling that Brawn had engaged in a deceptive business practice by charging its customers an “insurance fee” of $1.48 with every order place. The ruling presumed that Brawn, rather than its customers, bears the loss of risk in transit, so that its customers received nothing of value in return for paying the fee. The court also awarded plaintiff litigation expenses in the amount of $24,699.21 and attorney fees in the amount of $422,982.50.
We reverse, concluding that Brawn did not bear the risk of loss of goods in transit under the applicable Commercial Code sections discussed below.
Continued
<< <i>Question - if the seller in their TOS states that insurance is mandatory is it? Can I refuse to pay the insurance even though it shows up in the invoice? As a buyer, can I force the insurance fee to be removed? >>
No.
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It ALL depends on the stubborness and sophistication of the seller.
If the seller refuses to ship unless you pay for insurance,
he can get a non-performing-seller strike (NPS), if an idiota
at T&S handles the complaint.
In general, a seller with a "mandatory insurance policy" can
enforce it, BUT ONLY by his own non-performance of a "contract"
that he will claim you breached by refusing to buy insurance.
There are two times that a buyer is WISE to pay for the insurance:
1. Payment is made by check or money order.
2. The buyer pays via PayPal but does not trust that the USPS
Delivery Confirmation will be correctly recorded. If the DC wrongfully shows
an item delivered, an insurance claim can still be filed and may prevail if
the USPS is convinced that the claimant is/may be telling the truth.
(PayPal puts absolute faith in DC, the USPS knows mistakes are made.)
On EBAY, currently, the best out for buyers is to deal with sellers who
consider insurance "an option," AND accept PayPal.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
That is the smart way to collect the money.
It does/can make the seller's S+H appear "high," so not many do it that way.
For big ticket items insurance is such a small percentage of the sale it seems best just to include it in the S&H and not break it out. From many past post (including one from me) insurance can be a real bone of contention and sour a perfectly good transaction.
To me, as a buyer, its easier to swallow when TOS says something along the lined of "S&H includes delivery confirmation and insurance" instead of something along the lines of "S&H x dollars plus mandatory x dollars of insurance. Seller is not responsible for lost or damaged items." The second example seem automatically contentious. And, even though I could fight the first example, it just seems easier to accept.
......................................................................
That is the cleanest way to state it.
Because I use "Free" S+H, I say:
"Insured Shipping With Delivery Confirmation Is Free"
(Of course, the cost is built into the BIN, or the reserve.)
We do not need sellers like this on Ebay. Neg him immediately and file a paypal claim. Put his kind back in the hole where they came from.
Of course if this is a $5 card, I would probably skip the return shipping and just leave the neg.
<< <i>Another great example of why the new feedback rules are necessary.
We do not need sellers like this on Ebay. Neg him immediately and file a paypal claim. Put his kind back in the hole where they came from.
Of course if this is a $5 card, I would probably skip the return shipping and just leave the neg. >>
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No, this card actualy has a beckett value of atleast $80 even though i only payed $35