SC$ fans, Can you pic the real HK-358 from the fake? Answer in first post

DUIGUY

From just the obverse pics?



One on the viewers left is the fake silver plated copper. Real one is on the right.
Fake weighs 432.1 grains. Authentic one marked sterling at 5:00 weighs 493.8 grains.

jonathanb

Interesting. They are different dies -- look at the positioning of the tip of the leaf relative to the top right of the H in UTAH, for example. Unfortunately, I also have pics of copper strikes from each of these dies, so my clever comments about the dies just aren't so clever any more.

I'd have to say that the left pic looks like a more natural silver color, so if I had to pick one, that's my pic for the real one.

AUandAG

I like the look of the left coin if it's supposed to be silver. The right coin looks like potmetal and perhaps
it too is real but just not a silver example. But if one is real the other is fake then I'll go left.
bob

dan8402

I'm not a SC$ expert by any means, but I would say the one on the left is the real deal.

adamlaneus

I'm no expert, but I think I see more detail in the one on the left. And some botched lettering on the right.

I have a question about the coin itself

What is a "Alaska-Yukon Pacific Exposition Utah Exhibit"?

In 1909, I would not have thought that very much was goin' on in Utah.

BECOKA

The one on the right looks cast. Even thought the one on the right is less worn, the device details also seem a little flat.

dcarr

If only one of those is genuine, I think the one on the right is the real one.
I'm not convinced that either one is a fake - need better pictures.

coindeuce

What possible motive could anyone have to forge such an obscure issue?

tmot99

Do I get to vote?

Obviously I know the answer, and I won't reveal the truth. But I will answer a few of the questions posed.

adamlaneus: You are probably right, not much going on in Utah. But in Alaska, things were hopping. They held a huge expo in 1909 at which the State of Utah had a pavillion, building, or an exhibit somewhere. This is common fair at the World's Fairs including the 1893 Columbian Expo and the 1904 Louisiana Purchase Expo. Many times, these medals were sold prior to the Fair to raise money to participate, build the biulding, etc. Silver issues are pretty rare. The more common is copper.

dcarr and coindeuce: One is plated copper and the other not. Plating is a cheap way to turn a common piece into a much more valuable item as you both probably know. Get a roll of the copper variety at let's just say 50 cents a piece (20 in a roll, total investment $10 maybe) (I have no idea of what price they could have been bought for or if they even came in rolls. I'm just proposing a possible scenario) and plate them with silver. Sell for $500 each even back then. Let's just say it's $100 each. Just made $1990 which is obviously big money in 1909 for very little effort. As I suggested, multiply that by 5 and you are set for a long time!

braddick

This is always fun because all you've got is your gut.
I'm going with the one on the left being plated and the one on the right as being the real deal.

coindeuce

The images presented by the OP don't show enough contrast in color for a proper assessment of the question. They both appear to be the same color on my monitor.

ScarsdaleCoin

my gut says left one is good, right one is fake

keets

i believe the piece on the left is the fake.

MrSpud

Left is fake

DorkGirl

The right one is more pleasing to my eye.

harvey85422458

I'll go with the one on the right

mrpotatoheadd

Not knowing anything about these, I'd say the left one looks more questionable- the lettering isn't as crisp and the star to the right of the date looks a little funky.

But then, I could be wrong...

adamlaneus

What kills me is that I look at your two coins on a different monitor and my opinion is completely different.

It just reinforces my belief that you can't tell much about the quality of a coin from a single photograph.

And that different monitors will produce dramatically different images.

Remember Jay's "which saint do you like the most" thread? Well, when I used my various monitors, I would always end up with different answers to that question.

Ack.

USAROK

I'll say that both are real Utah Dollars but the one on the left is a copper version (HK-359) that has been silver plated to create a fake silver HK-358 while the one on the right is a real silver HK-358.

oldcameoproofsguy

Which one is it and why?

DUIGUY

for the answer.

tmot99

This is what DUIGUY was talking about in this thread. NGC had originally called the plated one real, not knowing that there were obvious markers to tell the difference. DUIGUY and I discussed the differences and he asked me to talk to NGC. After a few conversations and a few tests, the composition was known. NGC handled the situation very well.

The specific gravity of the plated piece and a regular copper piece were tested and found to be the same, though an x-ray test determined the plated piece to be silver. The x-ray test was done awhile back and the result makes sense. The x-rays sample the surface, not the core. The surface is silver. However, with the medal stating right on it Virgin Utah Copper and a true silver one that I found for DUIGUY stating Sterling, it made sense to question the authenticity of the plated piece. The specific gravity gave it away.

So now DUIGUY owns a copper, a silver, and a silver-plated copper.

DUIGUY

Thanks Tom, none of this possible without you. Owe ya big time .

tmot99

No problem. Glad I could help.