Received my Goldberg US-PI 1927M 5 Centavos (NGC Top Pop)
IloiloKano
Posts: 1,051
Edited to note this was an NGC MS66, and it was part of a lot that Goldberg did not image.
When I came home for lunch, I saw the postman left a notice.
And I chased him down, so that I wouldn't have to wait until Saturday to pick it up at the Post Office.
Anyway, I took pictures through the holder, which is pretty badly worn, and though I am doubtful it will cross, it seems to be (at least, to me) just slightly better than JetblackOil's PCGS MS65 example, which he has graciously made visible to the public.
I welcome comments regarding possibility of crossing to PCGS, which according to Justhavingfun has a population of one in MS66 and one in MS67.
I should be able to see PCGS's population report for this coin, since I joined with a platinum membership last evening, and I can see everthing else, but when I look, PCGS's web site reports that no population exists for ANY US-Philippines coins! I have twice put a question into the Q&A Forum, but nothing so far.
Maybe one of you can tell me what is going on under US Coins - Territories - US Philippines (1903 - 1945).
When I came home for lunch, I saw the postman left a notice.
And I chased him down, so that I wouldn't have to wait until Saturday to pick it up at the Post Office. Anyway, I took pictures through the holder, which is pretty badly worn, and though I am doubtful it will cross, it seems to be (at least, to me) just slightly better than JetblackOil's PCGS MS65 example, which he has graciously made visible to the public.
I welcome comments regarding possibility of crossing to PCGS, which according to Justhavingfun has a population of one in MS66 and one in MS67.
I should be able to see PCGS's population report for this coin, since I joined with a platinum membership last evening, and I can see everthing else, but when I look, PCGS's web site reports that no population exists for ANY US-Philippines coins! I have twice put a question into the Q&A Forum, but nothing so far.
Maybe one of you can tell me what is going on under US Coins - Territories - US Philippines (1903 - 1945). 0
Comments
Anyway, the Registry shows the following (using a bit of deduction, that is):
MS64 = 11
MS65 = 9
MS66 = 3
MS67 = 1; Mr. Fun.
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Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945
Very nice both!
IloIlo: Are those fingerprints on the reverse, just above and to the left of the eagle?
Changing subjects, guyz, I'm sure you've been reading about the brouhaha going on at the Philippine Numismatic & Antiquarian Society. A take-over coup that has apparently degenerated in lawyers and lawsuits.
What's your take on this? What happened; and who's doing what?
Happily, I'm out of the line of fire (and want to keep it that way). But I'm curious
Best wishes from Bangkok, where I'm
Just Having Fun
Does anyone know why PCGS does not show a population report for Population Home > World Coins > U. S. Philippines (1903 - 1945)? I am trying to access it from their web site, selecting from Territorials, and they still report "There is no population found for this category".
I have made THREE attempts posting this question to the Q & A Forum, and they haven't even seen fit to acknowlege the question yet. I have also sent a direct question through PCGS.com, with still no response. I joined with a Platinum membership, since I wanted to avail myself of the 8 free certifications, but I'd like to see population reports, before sending 8 of potentially 10 coins set aside for for the purpose.
To say PCGS's lack of respone is a bit frustrating is definitely an understatement. If I receive no reponse by Monday, I'll probably be calling them directly, combining my question with my general disgust that I had to make the phone call to get a response.
JetBlack74Oil: Thank you sir, for supplying the image of your example. Do you think mine has a shot at crossing as MS66, or do you think it more likely it would certify as MS65. I know it is hard to judge from pictures, especially when taken through a scuffed holder, but I'd appreciate even speculation from someone holding a collection such as yours.
Click on popolation report, then on the right hand side corner, where it say Lookup by PCGS no:
enter 90204 for 1927-M five centavos.
As for crossing over your coin to PCGS, if there is enough luster it should not be a problem, however if NGC only graded one for this date, why would you want to cross it to PCGS?
PCGS population as stated previously has already 3 in MS66 and 1 in MS67 vs. NGC top POP.
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Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945
Such sweet coins.
Thanks for posting them
My eBay
As to crossing over an NGC Top Pop to PCGS, where it would then be 1 among 4, with one finer (JHF's MS67), I have more confidence in PCGS Grading, and once I got it graded, I would notify NGC to have the NGC Certification of this coin removed, since I would send in the NGC capsule from which I removed the coin, which would then make MS65 NGC's highest rated for the date.
I really don't care about whether my coin is Top Pop in NGC, if it isn't Top Pop among all legitimate services. For example, I could probably have centles, (the ebay self slabber), certify this coin as MS68 or even MS69, but how would that make me happier to own this coin? His slabs add nothing to the value of the coin. Granted, NGC is well respected, but PCGS is even more so, and if PCGS certifies this coin as M66, I count that a gain, though if they certify it MS65 or lower, then I will feel as if I have taken a pretty major hit by sending it in.
Again, I must tell you how much having images of your high grade coins available online to the public is appreciated. Thank you.
If you are planning keeping the coin for your personal collection and you think it has a chance of crossing then do it, however on the other hand like what everyone else said
BUY the coin and not the plastic.
You have nothing to lose crossing the coin(s) in the slabbed because if you get a DNC grade it will come back with a label "minimum grade"
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Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945
<< <i>For example, I could probably have centles, (the ebay self slabber), certify this coin as MS68 or even MS69, but how would that make me happier to own this coin? His slabs add nothing to the value of the coin.
Granted, NGC is well respected, but PCGS is even more so, and if PCGS certifies this coin as M66, I count that a gain, though if they certify it MS65 or lower, then I will feel as if I have taken a pretty major hit by sending it in.
>>
That centsles guy irritates me so much. Such a pain searching through all the bullcrap he puts up. Esp. when searching keyword unc or uncirculated. He gets a negative once a week, that's kind of funny though, maybe he'll get banned eventually.
The other part is send it to PCGS in the slab. If it doesn't cross then it will still be in the original slab and your only out the grading fee. They won't take it out of the slab so your good. There will be no hit at all unless you crack it and send it in as raw.
One note. I was 0 for 4 on the last batch I tried to cross from NGC. My ICCS stuff was 3 for 4 with one 2 point upgrade
My eBay
<< <i>
<< <i>For example, I could probably have centles, (the ebay self slabber), certify this coin as MS68 or even MS69, but how would that make me happier to own this coin? His slabs add nothing to the value of the coin.
Granted, NGC is well respected, but PCGS is even more so, and if PCGS certifies this coin as M66, I count that a gain, though if they certify it MS65 or lower, then I will feel as if I have taken a pretty major hit by sending it in.
>>
That centsles guy irritates me so much. Such a pain searching through all the bullcrap he puts up. Esp. when searching keyword unc or uncirculated. He gets a negative once a week, that's kind of funny though, maybe he'll get banned eventually.
The other part is send it to PCGS in the slab. If it doesn't cross then it will still be in the original slab and your only out the grading fee. They won't take it out of the slab so your good. There will be no hit at all unless you crack it and send it in as raw.
One note. I was 0 for 4 on the last batch I tried to cross from NGC. My ICCS stuff was 3 for 4 with one 2 point upgrade
Grading coins is more art than science, and you never know what a TPG will think of a coin and what attributes or defects they will notice that others won't.
I cross my PCGS coins to NGC, as i like world coin guys grading them instead of US coin graders. My last batch of British Victorian Crowns had 2 PCGS MS64s and 1 MS65. One of the MS64 came back AU58, while the other two were graded MS64. That is fine with me, as I didn't pay anywhere near MS64 or 65 money for them, and the one that came back AU58 was clearly overgraded by PCGS by nearly anyone familar with this series. Wear is wear, and any professional grader shouldn't miss this stuff. Things like booming luster, strong strike and other positive attributes must be weighed against the negatives. For them to do all this within the average 15 seconds they spend grading a coin, means that that they must have a trained eye, and apply that kind of scrutiny every time they grade a coin. I'd much rather have a grading service be consistant in their analysis, than to have some aire of conservative grading one day, and missing obvious wear the next. Of course, this is just my two cents.
Global, special thanks for the suggestion about sending it in the slab, though I see that JetBlack alluded to that in his post as well.
Now, what if they do indeed grade it? Will they notify NGC to remove that coin from their registry, or will they send the empty slab back so I can ask them to do so? See, I don't want a false number of high grade US-PI coins to be added to by me. The lack of many high grade coins in the series is one aspect of the attraction for me to collect them exclusively, and I believe true conditional rarities will become more widely known in the not too distant future.
<< <i>Doogy and Global, thanks for the input. Since US-PI coinage should be considered US coinage, especially since it was US coinage at the time, perhaps PCGS does a better job on them.
Global, special thanks for the suggestion about sending it in the slab, though I see that JetBlack alluded to that in his post as well.
Now, what if they do indeed grade it? Will they notify NGC to remove that coin from their registry, or will they send the empty slab back so I can ask them to do so? See, I don't want a false number of high grade US-PI coins to be added to by me. The lack of many high grade coins in the series is one aspect of the attraction for me to collect them exclusively, and I believe true conditional rarities will become more widely known in the not too distant future. >>
PCGS will not notify NGC if the coin crosses for purpose of population reports, they leave that burden to you. I have had luck upgrading NGC coins (to NGC, by cracking them out) and sending them the insert to have them remove it from the census. I have had zero luck (others report this too, so i'm not alone unfortunately) having PCGS remove coins from their registry. I have cracked 16 Great Britain PCGS Victorian Crowns in the last few months, and had them graded by NGC. I have sent the inserts in in three seperate batches but none of them were removed even after calling them twice.
The three former PCGS top pop British coins that used to reside in PCGS holders, that were crossed (and two downgraded by a point) at NGC are still in their pop reports, even after Ira Goldberg told me personally that they sent in all the PCGS inserts from the Millennia coin auction. These are just the ones we spoke of, since i was talking about the British lots with him. I know a slew of other coins used to be PCGS, and were crossed to NGC for the Millennia sale, so i can only hope they were at least removed from the pop reports. This type of thing inflates the populations on coins that aren't too abudant in the reports anyhow. It's not like we're talking about Morgan dollars here with millions of graded coins. frustrating.
Anyway, if you do cross it, send it to Ken Krah's attention at NGC, and i'm sure they will do what is right to amend things.
<< <i>After reading Doogy's account of difficulties relating to getting a coin removed from a registry, I think I'll just have it reholdered by NGC, if I can figure out the procedure for this and also a dealer to do the submission for me. Or maybe I can just find something to polish the badly scuffed surface of the holder, since that is the only problem right now. >>
Might as well just send it to NCS for conservation to remove the finger print then to NGC for a new holder. You'll never know, it might upgrade to MS67.
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Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945
<< <i>Might as well just send it to NCS for conservation to remove the finger print then to NGC for a new holder. You'll never know, it might upgrade to MS67. >>
Now THAT is a good idea! Whether is upgrades to MS67 or not, I do remember NCS advertising their conservation, and that if it could be graded by NGC, then they would pass it along to be done. So now, how in the world could it not qualify for NGC certification, since it will arrive in an NGC Certified holder?
What a great idea!
Won't JHF be a little bit surprised if it does upgrade?
Whether you know it or not, he graciously directed his representative to not bid on this item, unless bidding passed my maximum, which JHF knew.
So don't ever let anyone tell you that man is not a class act.
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Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945
It's important to remember that these are "submission" reports not population reports, especially when considering the USPI series. Many, many crack outs and resubmissions going on and most POP numbers are not corrected, even after sending the labels back to the TPG. To truly know the rarity of a particular coin, one must know how many are actually in existence (including raw). This, however, requires an intimate knowledge of the market, which many part-time collectors don't have the time to keep up with. For example, for many years PCGS reported a 06-S Peso in 61 and 3 in 62. However, there are only 2 in 62 and this has recently been corrected (I believe). In short, POP reports are often overstated.
<< <i>
<< <i>For example, I could probably have centles, (the ebay self slabber), certify this coin as MS68 or even MS69, but how would that make me happier to own this coin? His slabs add nothing to the value of the coin.
Granted, NGC is well respected, but PCGS is even more so, and if PCGS certifies this coin as M66, I count that a gain, though if they certify it MS65 or lower, then I will feel as if I have taken a pretty major hit by sending it in.
>>
That centsles guy irritates me so much. Such a pain searching through all the bullcrap he puts up. Esp. when searching keyword unc or uncirculated. He gets a negative once a week, that's kind of funny though, maybe he'll get banned eventually.
>>
New eBay username World_Coinz will be listing our inventory temporarily.
You can expect the same fine service from World_Coinz that Centsles has delivered for 10 years on eBay please bid with confidence.
<< <i>For example, for many years PCGS reported a 06-S Peso in 61 and 3 in 62. However, there are only 2 in 62 and this has recently been corrected (I believe). >>
Which brings to mind something related to me by my Filino friend, who recently informed me that he knows a dealer wanting to sell an 06-S Peso, (uncleaned VF), for 60,000 PHP, or about US$1500. I am inclined to purchase it, especially since a cleaned VF went so high in Goldberg's recent auction.
Note: My friend is a conservative grader, and he finds such items for me. He has also passed on 11-S and 12-S pesos in AU, (when I would have quickly paid the asking price), simply because the luster wasn't cartwheel, so he thought they may have been dipped. So when he tells me this 06-S is uncleaned VF, I know that it is both uncleaned and VF. If anyone thinks I should pass on this coin, please tell me why, since I do not have a representative of this date in my collection, and since I cannot afford any higher grade.
<< <i>You can expect the same fine service from World_Coinz that Centsles has delivered for 10 years on eBay please bid with confidence. >>
$1,500 for an original VF-30 with nice eye appeal is a fair price. As a comparison, a medium toned EF-40 recently sold in private treaty for $2,800.
A friend of mine was fooling around with her new digital cam and shot this for me.
This one's a little darker, but it does have mostly brown skin.
<< <i>This one's a little darker, but it does have mostly brown skin. >>
The detail is better as well. Check detail level of the lava flows for example. I have found that and the pedestal details to be the hardest to image photographically on 20 centavos and smaller (size-wise) coins. Even though the detail is there, I can't seem to get it to show up unless I angle the shot, but then I get an elliptical image, (vice circular), with both near and far fuzzily focused.
For example, this 1928-M Mule 20 Centavos...
President
PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
www.CoinFacts.com
<< <i>I just checked the PCGS Population Report for data on the U.S. Philippines and had the same problems as you. I've directed our IT department to assess and fix the problem. As soon as it is fixed, I'll report back. >>
Now thats service!
JetBlack74Oil: Regarding the set of centvo coins you listed in another thread, which you stated you were selling as a set, I have a suggestion that should get you much more than by selling them as a set. Everyone that visits this forum and has an interest in US-PI coins is aware of your quality collection, as well as your PCGS registry set (second best, next to JustHavingFun) for the series. Also, you have posted some extraordinary images of them, so much of the work required to get top dollar is already accomplished. So why don't you simply create a web page, similar in nature to the one selling top quality certified US-PI coins, list each coin for sale at what you believe is the current market price, state shipping and insurance cost for delivery of each, offer a shipping discount for multiple purchases, and accept payment via PayPal, Money Order or Cashier's Check, then provide a link to your US-PI PCGS Registry and post a thread on this forum to initiate interest? Your long time presence on this forum, plus recommendations from others like JustHavingFun and others, should allay any potential buyer concerns, and even if you don't sell them all right away, I am confident you would sell many in short order, and the amount you get will surely exceed what you could get for the entire set. Whatever you decide, good luck to you.
<< <i>JetBlack74Oil: Regarding the set of centvo coins you listed in another thread, which you stated you were selling as a set, I have a suggestion that should get you much more than by selling them as a set. Everyone that visits this forum and has an interest in US-PI coins is aware of your quality collection, as well as your PCGS registry set (second best, next to JustHavingFun) for the series. Also, you have posted some extraordinary images of them, so much of the work required to get top dollar is already accomplished. So why don't you simply create a web page, similar in nature to the one selling top quality certified US-PI coins, list each coin for sale at what you believe is the current market price, state shipping and insurance cost for delivery of each, offer a shipping discount for multiple purchases, and accept payment via PayPal, Money Order or Cashier's Check, then provide a link to your US-PI PCGS Registry and post a thread on this forum to initiate interest? Your long time presence on this forum, plus recommendations from others like JustHavingFun and others, should allay any potential buyer concerns, and even if you don't sell them all right away, I am confident you would sell many in short order, and the amount you get will surely exceed what you could get for the entire set. Whatever you decide, good luck to you. >>
IloiloKano: Yes indeed, I have been thinking about creating a web site for along time, but time would not permit . I might consider breaking the set as you mentioned and sell it individually in the near future. Anyone who is interested buying US-PHIL coins, please send your want list now before I post it on that future web site. Make sure to specify the year and grade you want from each denominations.
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Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945