<< <i>I consider myself a loyal PSA customer. I also use the PCGS pop reports, as do thousands of coin collectors and dealers. This data is quite visible at most major auctions, and is an integral part of the sales process for higher end items. It is the policy of PCGS to pay a bounty for returned flips, and this no doubt improves the accuracy of the PCGS population data.
I think it would be a wise financial investment for PSA to keep their pop reports as accurate as possible.
The PSA pop report is a major component of the overall appeal of using PSA, especially on the higher end items.
I do not agree that it is OK to let the accuracy of the pop data slide simply because it is cheaper, and not enough people give a hoot. Lots of people care, they just do not frequent these boards, so their opinions are not heard here.
If 50 cents per flip is too costly to maintain the integrity of a central program within a multi-million dollar corporation, perhaps an alternative compensation could be considered, such as a free grading for every x number of flips, etc.
Otherwise the pop report becomes at best an approximation, and at worst a sham.
$0.02 >>
Well, my opinion is that it's almost always going to be the higher end items that are effected by inaccurate pop reports. If I looked up a 1986 Alan Knicely Topps and it's a POP 10 in PSA 9 and 1 in a 10, I don't think those 9's are actually 5 nine's that have been resubbed 4 times thus causing an inaccurate Pop report. It's when a 1954 Topps Hank Aaron has a pop (this is just a fake example) of 200 in 7 and 50 in 8 but there are probably only really 150 7's out there because 1/4 of them have been resubbed from people trying for 8's. So, it's not really for the set registry collectors etc that they should probably be paying a bounty for flips, it's for the high end auction houses and Marshall Fogel's of the world.
There's also something to be said for creating a culture that polices and takes care of itself. If PSA has programmed its customers to return flips and maintain a level of accuracy for the pop reports, those customers will inherently maintain the same level of responsibility for things like the Registry, the message boards, and everything else that comes with being a member. Instead, PSA doesn't even actively encourage (even without compensation) people to send in their flips, so not many submitters do it. The result is completely innaccurate pop reports and a contribution to the "me first" mentality that is killing the grading industry.
I said it a while back when everyone was complaining about the .5 grading change- all of the complaints were based on what would happen to that individual's collection rather than what was good for the industry. Similarly to thos people that were complaining, PSA acts in their own best interest rather than in that of the industry. At some point, the PSA crazy will be over and collectors will move onto the next collecting fad or next hot grading concept, and PSA will have no one to blame but themselves because they took every penny they could rather than help nourish the industry and let it continue to grow. That type of "it's not financially viable in the short run so we don't do it" mentaility that RawPlusSlabbed is reinforcing will ironically be the finacnial downfall of PSA.
To give an example, since its inception, Craigslist has very actively encouraged its users to flag inappropriate posts and maintain an intolerance for spam on the site. Without any financial compensation, hundreds of millions of people take time out of their day to make sure nothing gets through on whichever categories they happen to be perousing. The result is a site that, to this day, has yet to sell out in any way and now gets billions of hits per day and continues to grow. Without the self-policing concept, they would be full of spam and not nearly as many people would go there every day to see what has been posted. Simply put, craigslist users feel they have a responsibility to keep it clean in order to enjoy it for years to come. Only a small fraction of PSA members feel the that way.
Ok, if you feel you didn't twist what i said it may have been your comprehension skills.
Whatever you want to call it you acted like a TROLL. You took what i said elsewhere
and posted here about it. Classic example of TROLL behavior.
I hope this puts that to rest.
I just love how guys that show little class themselves fire away and accuse others to show some class. Hint: If you expect to be treated with class show some too!
he and Steve have been going at it in this and other threads.
That is correct and I would have no idea that this guy existed had he not tried to ridicule me over some BS GAI post. He wanted to play so I played back.
In closing I'll say exactly what he said to me that day:
This thread would have ended by now if Rawplusslabbed didn't insert his nonsense into it.
Right Raw?
So to be honest anytime I see this troll and he makes his monthly anti PSA bash post I'll reply.
<<. . . You sound like the kind of guy that ends up needing new rotors every time you have to replace your brakes. >>
Well, I always replace both my brakes and my rotors every 75,000 miles whether they're needed or not. Many times I will have them rotate the tires while they have them off and check them for proper inflation. Can never be too safe.
<< <i>I'm not sure I follow you are you saying Craigslist is a viable venue? All i hear is that it is a scammers delight. >>
I have bought and sold on craigslist for years. Are there scammers out there? Sure...but there are scammers everywhere. When dealing on craigslist, keep your dealings local and in person and you should be fine. In fact, just today I sold some Brewers tickets on craigslist and it was smoother than most recent ebay sales! I've bought everything from some old Red Man cards (that all graded quite well) to stadium giveaway Brewers bobbleheads. I always pay cash and when I sell, it's all I accept.
<< <i>At 75k you better change both, pads should be changed every 40k I think.
Do you start hearing metal on metal at around 60k?
edited to add lol and of course I am J/K but what tires do you have that get 75k before you rotate?
or do you rotate at 75 and other intervals?
I don't think I have ever had a tire last 75k even if I rotated them every 10k.
Steve >>
Hey Steve, I was being sarcastic. I know what nam was saying, unfortunately I find myself always having to change the rotors when I get new brakes, but in my opinion it's because I'm a procrastinating schmuck moreso than a jerk.
I was talking about Craiglist in terms of how thier business are structured. If you're not familiar with it you should read about their story and how they operate. It's a very interesting and unique business model. Nothing I said about Craigslist has anything to do with people selling cards on there.
Thanks for the tip about Craigslist. I just bought 3 Goudey Gehrigs and 2 Ruths from some guy in Bakersfield. Best part, no paypal fees, i'm sending cash!
True story, Guy tries to sublet apartment using craigslist. Woman from Phillipines answers add. Money needed to be sent 1000.00.
She sends 3000.00 guy deposits check and after 3 or 4 days asks if money is available, Banker says yes it is. Guy then gets a 2k cash from the teller and tells her he is sending it to Phillipines via Western Union because it was an overpayment. My wife ,the MGR, overhears this and tells the guy it could be a scam. He ( a know it all) claims it is not. Long story short 3 weeks later the original 3k check was found to be a forgery.
Guy goes ballistic at branch claiming they told him money was available. Wants bank to take the loss. bla bla bla. I told her to tell the guy to pound sand.
While check was clearing, which is different then when it is available by the way for those that don't know this jerk of a guy was sent another check from same person and was about to do it again!
No he is not part of the scam just some guy with more money then brains.
<< <i>True story, Guy tries to sublet apartment using craigslist. Woman from Phillipines answers add. Money needed to be sent 1000.00.
She sends 3000.00 guy deposits check and after 3 or 4 days asks if money is available, Banker says yes it is. Guy then gets a 2k cash from the teller and tells her he is sending it to Phillipines via Western Union because it was an overpayment. My wife ,the MGR, overhears this and tells the guy it could be a scam. He ( a know it all) claims it is not. Long story short 3 weeks later the original 3k check was found to be a forgery.
Guy goes ballistic at branch claiming they told him money was available. Wants bank to take the loss. bla bla bla. I told her to tell the guy to pound sand.
While check was clearing, which is different then when it is available by the way for those that don't know this jerk of a guy was sent another check from same person and was about to do it again!
No he is not part of the scam just some guy with more money then brains.
Steve >>
Nigeria may be first among being well known for scammers, along with some former Soviet Union countries, but also now the Philippines is rapidly becoming known as a haven for scammers for a variety of reasons.
<< <i>True story, Guy tries to sublet apartment using craigslist. Woman from Phillipines answers add. Money needed to be sent 1000.00.
She sends 3000.00 guy deposits check and after 3 or 4 days asks if money is available, Banker says yes it is. Guy then gets a 2k cash from the teller and tells her he is sending it to Phillipines via Western Union because it was an overpayment. My wife ,the MGR, overhears this and tells the guy it could be a scam. He ( a know it all) claims it is not. Long story short 3 weeks later the original 3k check was found to be a forgery.
Guy goes ballistic at branch claiming they told him money was available. Wants bank to take the loss. bla bla bla. I told her to tell the guy to pound sand.
While check was clearing, which is different then when it is available by the way for those that don't know this jerk of a guy was sent another check from same person and was about to do it again!
No he is not part of the scam just some guy with more money then brains.
Steve >>
Nigeria may be first among being well known for scammers, along with some former Soviet Union countries, but also now the Philippines is rapidly becoming known as a haven for scammers for a variety of reasons. >>
And most likely the Philippino woman was young and cute. I would be fairly sure he was e-mailed a picture of her, and it probably wasn't even a picture of the person who scammed him.
And BTW - he has no case against the bank - he owes the bank 2K
Comments
<< <i>I consider myself a loyal PSA customer. I also use the PCGS pop reports, as do thousands of coin collectors and dealers. This data is quite visible at most major auctions, and is an integral part of the sales process for higher end items. It is the policy of PCGS to pay a bounty for returned flips, and this no doubt improves the accuracy of the PCGS population data.
I think it would be a wise financial investment for PSA to keep their pop reports as accurate as possible.
The PSA pop report is a major component of the overall appeal of using PSA, especially on the higher end items.
I do not agree that it is OK to let the accuracy of the pop data slide simply because it is cheaper, and not enough people give a hoot. Lots of people care, they just do not frequent these boards, so their opinions are not heard here.
If 50 cents per flip is too costly to maintain the integrity of a central program within a multi-million dollar corporation, perhaps an alternative compensation could be considered, such as a free grading for every x number of flips, etc.
Otherwise the pop report becomes at best an approximation, and at worst a sham.
$0.02 >>
Well, my opinion is that it's almost always going to be the higher end items that are effected by inaccurate pop reports. If I looked up a 1986 Alan Knicely Topps and it's a POP 10 in PSA 9 and 1 in a 10, I don't think those 9's are actually 5 nine's that have been resubbed 4 times thus causing an inaccurate Pop report. It's when a 1954 Topps Hank Aaron has a pop (this is just a fake example) of 200 in 7 and 50 in 8 but there are probably only really 150 7's out there because 1/4 of them have been resubbed from people trying for 8's. So, it's not really for the set registry collectors etc that they should probably be paying a bounty for flips, it's for the high end auction houses and Marshall Fogel's of the world.
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
I said it a while back when everyone was complaining about the .5 grading change- all of the complaints were based on what would happen to that individual's collection rather than what was good for the industry. Similarly to thos people that were complaining, PSA acts in their own best interest rather than in that of the industry. At some point, the PSA crazy will be over and collectors will move onto the next collecting fad or next hot grading concept, and PSA will have no one to blame but themselves because they took every penny they could rather than help nourish the industry and let it continue to grow. That type of "it's not financially viable in the short run so we don't do it" mentaility that RawPlusSlabbed is reinforcing will ironically be the finacnial downfall of PSA.
To give an example, since its inception, Craigslist has very actively encouraged its users to flag inappropriate posts and maintain an intolerance for spam on the site. Without any financial compensation, hundreds of millions of people take time out of their day to make sure nothing gets through on whichever categories they happen to be perousing. The result is a site that, to this day, has yet to sell out in any way and now gets billions of hits per day and continues to grow. Without the self-policing concept, they would be full of spam and not nearly as many people would go there every day to see what has been posted. Simply put, craigslist users feel they have a responsibility to keep it clean in order to enjoy it for years to come. Only a small fraction of PSA members feel the that way.
Ok, if you feel you didn't twist what i said it may have been your comprehension skills.
Whatever you want to call it you acted like a TROLL. You took what i said elsewhere
and posted here about it. Classic example of TROLL behavior.
I hope this puts that to rest.
I just love how guys that show little class themselves fire away and accuse
others to show some class. Hint: If you expect to be treated with class
show some too!
Steve
Steve
That is correct and I would have no idea that this guy existed had he not tried to ridicule me
over some BS GAI post. He wanted to play so I played back.
In closing I'll say exactly what he said to me that day:
This thread would have ended by now if Rawplusslabbed didn't insert his nonsense into it.
Right Raw?
So to be honest anytime I see this troll and he makes his monthly anti PSA bash post I'll reply.
Steve
I'm not sure I follow you are you saying Craigslist is a viable venue?
All i hear is that it is a scammers delight.
As for flips and PSA the pop report has evolved where it is now only a way to gauge how many of a card may exist.
Steve
Well, I always replace both my brakes and my rotors every 75,000 miles whether they're needed or not. Many times I will have them rotate the tires while they have them off and check them for proper inflation. Can never be too safe.
Do you start hearing metal on metal at around 60k?
edited to add lol and of course I am J/K but what tires do you have that get 75k before you rotate?
or do you rotate at 75 and other intervals?
I don't think I have ever had a tire last 75k even if I rotated them every 10k.
Steve
<< <i>I'm not sure I follow you are you saying Craigslist is a viable venue? All i hear is that it is a scammers delight. >>
I have bought and sold on craigslist for years. Are there scammers out there? Sure...but there are scammers everywhere. When dealing on craigslist, keep your dealings local and in person and you should be fine. In fact, just today I sold some Brewers tickets on craigslist and it was smoother than most recent ebay sales! I've bought everything from some old Red Man cards (that all graded quite well) to stadium giveaway Brewers bobbleheads. I always pay cash and when I sell, it's all I accept.
Isn't it in there best interests to do so?
Or is it possible that they don't return them because they don't want PSA to know that
they are cracking and resubmitting cards?
Also. what about those that crack cards for raw sets?
Again, use the pop report as a gauge. It will never be 100% accurate.
Steve
<< <i>At 75k you better change both, pads should be changed every 40k I think.
Do you start hearing metal on metal at around 60k?
edited to add lol and of course I am J/K but what tires do you have that get 75k before you rotate?
or do you rotate at 75 and other intervals?
I don't think I have ever had a tire last 75k even if I rotated them every 10k.
Steve >>
Hey Steve, I was being sarcastic. I know what nam was saying, unfortunately I find myself always having to change the rotors when I get new brakes, but in my opinion it's because I'm a procrastinating schmuck moreso than a jerk.
Thanks for the tip about Craigslist. I just bought 3 Goudey Gehrigs and 2 Ruths from some guy in Bakersfield. Best part, no paypal fees, i'm sending cash!
Hey Steve, I was being sarcastic.
Ahh, that explains it, sorry I didn't realize.
Steve
She sends 3000.00 guy deposits check and after 3 or 4 days asks if money is available, Banker says yes it is. Guy then gets a 2k cash
from the teller and tells her he is sending it to Phillipines via Western Union because it was an overpayment. My wife ,the MGR, overhears this
and tells the guy it could be a scam. He ( a know it all) claims it is not. Long story short 3 weeks later the original 3k check was found to be a forgery.
Guy goes ballistic at branch claiming they told him money was available. Wants bank to take the loss. bla bla bla. I told her to tell the guy to pound sand.
While check was clearing, which is different then when it is available by the way for those that don't know this jerk of a guy was sent another check
from same person and was about to do it again!
No he is not part of the scam just some guy with more money then brains.
Steve
<< <i>True story, Guy tries to sublet apartment using craigslist. Woman from Phillipines answers add. Money needed to be sent 1000.00.
She sends 3000.00 guy deposits check and after 3 or 4 days asks if money is available, Banker says yes it is. Guy then gets a 2k cash
from the teller and tells her he is sending it to Phillipines via Western Union because it was an overpayment. My wife ,the MGR, overhears this
and tells the guy it could be a scam. He ( a know it all) claims it is not. Long story short 3 weeks later the original 3k check was found to be a forgery.
Guy goes ballistic at branch claiming they told him money was available. Wants bank to take the loss. bla bla bla. I told her to tell the guy to pound sand.
While check was clearing, which is different then when it is available by the way for those that don't know this jerk of a guy was sent another check
from same person and was about to do it again!
No he is not part of the scam just some guy with more money then brains.
Steve >>
Nigeria may be first among being well known for scammers, along with some former Soviet Union countries, but also now the Philippines is rapidly becoming known as a haven for scammers for a variety of reasons.
<< <i>
<< <i>True story, Guy tries to sublet apartment using craigslist. Woman from Phillipines answers add. Money needed to be sent 1000.00.
She sends 3000.00 guy deposits check and after 3 or 4 days asks if money is available, Banker says yes it is. Guy then gets a 2k cash
from the teller and tells her he is sending it to Phillipines via Western Union because it was an overpayment. My wife ,the MGR, overhears this
and tells the guy it could be a scam. He ( a know it all) claims it is not. Long story short 3 weeks later the original 3k check was found to be a forgery.
Guy goes ballistic at branch claiming they told him money was available. Wants bank to take the loss. bla bla bla. I told her to tell the guy to pound sand.
While check was clearing, which is different then when it is available by the way for those that don't know this jerk of a guy was sent another check
from same person and was about to do it again!
No he is not part of the scam just some guy with more money then brains.
Steve >>
Nigeria may be first among being well known for scammers, along with some former Soviet Union countries, but also now the Philippines is rapidly becoming known as a haven for scammers for a variety of reasons. >>
And most likely the Philippino woman was young and cute. I would be fairly sure he was e-mailed a picture of her, and it probably wasn't even a picture of the person who scammed him.
And BTW - he has no case against the bank - he owes the bank 2K
Her branch, she figures, makes around 10k a yr on his money. I told her to maybe split the loss with him.
I'd tell him to pound sand myself.
Steve