Home U.S. Coin Forum

KISS 1968 S (1969 D) Type B and 3 Other Reverse Varieties

This post is in response to Cladking's request for a "KISS" (Keep it Simple, Stupid) treatment of the subject. So here are the bare bones fool proof pick up points for the varieties. This was written for the 1968 S quarters, but the 1969 D has the same 4 varieties.

Type B - Either one of these pickup points is sufficient. (This was called IIb in my original article and RDV - 008 by CONECA)
1) The leaf to the left of the arrowpoints sticks above the arrowpoints in contrast to all other varieties.
2) The gap between E and S of STATES is greater and the tail of the S does not stick up as high above the E in contrast to all other varieties.

This can be seen in the illustrations in my 1970 D thread:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=627990&highlight_key=y&keyword1=1970
It can also be seen on page 152 of the Cherrypickers' Guide Fourth Edition Voulume II.
About 25 % of the 1968 S production were type B which occurred at the end of the year. In my experience 0.8% of the 1969 D are type B.


Type M - again any one set is sufficient to identify the M. (This was called type IIIb in my original article and RDV - 007 by CONECA.

1) In my mind, the most extreme difference is the extreme sharpness of the inside edge of the wings starting at the eagle's body as versus the field and the coin is not a type B. I don't think the B and M look that much alike in that area, but I am mentioning this in perhaps an excess of caution.
2) Top barb of the arrowpoints is missing and the coin is NOT a type B, which also has this barb apparently missing.
3) Second leaf to the left of the arrowpoints is higher than all other varieties.
4) The inside extreme tip of the wing to the viewers left starting at the leaf has an outline line. 1973 and 1974 which are yet another variety have a similiar, but not identical line.

Again you should be able to see these differences in the illustrations in the 1970 D thread.
About 75 % of the 1968 S production was this variety and 12.0 % of the 1969 D.


Type IIIb (CONECA RDV - 006)
This is a business strike version first used on a very few 1967 quarters and on all 1969 Philly quarters. This is the first clad quarter to have a doubled master die. Actually this doubled master die was used to make the M master die and the 1973/4 version. The first thing to note here is that it is NOT an B or M type.
1) The doubling is most noticeable inside the top of Q in QUARTER. Use a 1969 Philly for comparsion. It is hard to see on my pictures.
2) The inside edge of the wing to the viewer's left where it joins the body, although weaker than B or M is stronger than the other circulation strike version.
About 2 % of the 1968 S production was this variety and 58.1 % of the 1969 D. Production of this 1968 S was early in the year.


Type IIIa1 and IIIa2 (CONECA RDV - 004 and RDV - 005)
1) No doubling
2) The inside edge of the wing where it joins the body is very weak to the point of disappearing.

The difference between these two minor varieties lumped together here is the incuse outlining of the inside edge of the verticle wing section to the viewer's right on the IIIa2. On proof production this would almost certainly be polished off and all would look like IIIa1. Also I did not distingush between the two on my 1969 D census data although I did find both. I do not have a picture of this variety at this point.
About 1% of the 1968 S production were these varieties and 29.1 % of the 1969 D. Again the 1968 S production was early in the year.

If you are interested in more details, see the 1970 D thread reference text.



edited to remove extra letter

Comments

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 26,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Link to '70 thread from above post.


    I'll get back tomorrow on how I do.
    Tempus fugit.
  • Cladking, Thanks for the link.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 26,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is way cool. image

    I didn't get quite the right results but that might be because these are
    segregated by quality along a couple parameters. It's really difficult to
    spot these differences until you find one and then you can see them from
    half way across the room. I'm already and expert on the type "b" and the
    type "m". image

    N=80

    33- type "b"....41.25%
    44- type "m"...55.00%
    2- type "IIIb"....2.50%
    1- type "IIIa"....1.25% (a1)

    The proofs are certainly interesting but none of these will prove rare be-
    cause they exist in proof sets. I shudder to think how tough most of the
    reverse varieties are for clad quarters since most don't appear in mint sets.
    There will be adequate numbers of all the proofs for years yet but as soon
    as collectors start looking most of the uncs will be seen to be already gone.

    Thanks for all the info.
    Tempus fugit.
  • bronze6827bronze6827 Posts: 522 ✭✭✭
    I too enjoy looking for these quarter varieties. ProofArtworkonCircs got me beyond the type B reverses 1½ years ago with a copy of his article, and I've really been enjoying the washington quarter series since. Finding some of the uncirculated examples is indeed a real hunt.
  • Thanks cladking for posting your statistics. These are the first hard numbers I have on the 1968 S. You do seem to be abnormally high on the number of B's versus M's. I have not looked at that many 1968 S myself and I haven't counted them. I have been checking Teletrade for 1968 S and have seen many more M's than B's and nothing else yet. My 1968 S estimates I got from Ed Raser who very kindly furnished me my specimens of IIIa and IIIb. Incidently, a prominent collector is still missing the 1968 S IIIb.

    My 1969 D estimates were based on 655 1969 D's pulled out of 108,000 quarters in circulation in the Boston area in 1985. I am sure if I had pulled out a second batch, the per centages would have wiggled around somewhat. My experience of 1973 to 1988 was 53 B's out of 6,055 1969 D's or 0.875 %. (1972 D B's experience in the same period was 2 out of 16,632 or 0.012%)
    These were both out of 715,520 total quarters checked.


    This was edited to correct my 1969 D statistics. My base was 655 1969 D's not 1,000 as first posted.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 26,879 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks cladking for posting your statistics. These are the first hard numbers I have on the 1968 S. You do seem to be abnormally high on the number of B's versus M's. I have not looked at that many 1968 S myself and I haven't counted them. I have been checking Teletrade for 1968 S and have seen many more M's than B's and nothing else yet. My 1968 S estimates I got from Ed Raser who very kindly furnished me my specimens of IIIa and IIIb. Incidently, a prominent collector is still missing the 1968 S IIIb.

    My 1969 D estimates were based on 655 1969 D's pulled out of 108,000 quarters in circulation in the Boston area in 1985. I am sure if I had pulled out a second batch, the per centages would have wiggled around somewhat. My experience of 1973 to 1988 was 53 B's out of 6,055 1969 D's or 0.875 %. (1972 D B's experience in the same period was 2 out of 16,632 or 0.012%)
    These were both out of 715,520 total quarters checked.


    This was edited to correct my 1969 D statistics. My base was 655 1969 D's not 1,000 as first posted. >>




    This is all truly remarkable.

    There's so much wear on most of these now that getting nice collectible examples
    is going to prove nearly impossible. My only hope is that there will be some of the
    rarities in the 8 or 10 rolls of strange reverse coins that I pulled out of circulation
    starting in the late-'70's.

    I've got small quantities of the later anomylies which I might be able to trade for them
    but few of these are nearly that scarce.

    Tempus fugit.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,175 ✭✭✭✭
    Awesome research.

    I too have saved a few 1969 and 1969-D quarters.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 26,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ProofArtWorkonCircs has suggested that you can tell these apart
    by tactile sensations from your fingers without even looking.

    If you stack them up with the same orientation the stack of the
    type "b" will be much higher on the right side of the reverse and
    the type "m"s will lie flat.

    You can see this difference from a few hundred feet. image
    Tempus fugit.
  • In a pile of clad quarters, I can pick out the B's by touch alone and then the M's. I can not tell the circulation strike varieties apart by this method. I can not separate silver B's from ordinary silver circulation strikes.
    The B is originally from modified silver business strike artwork. Hence, it is truly in higher relief than a clad and you can sense the eagle is sticking up more. Once you eliminate the B, the M can be detected by the fact that your fingernail will catch on the inside edge of the wing / field boundary. I haven't actually tried this test on a B yet. I used to separate Ike T 2's from T 1's this way, but then they invented the T3.
    That felt like a T 2.

  • Wonderful amount of information Thank You Very Muchimage
  • dlmtortsdlmtorts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭
    ProofArtWorkonCircs and Cladking know their stuff. I have learned tons from reading their posts. Thanks guys for sharing all your knowledge and experience.
  • I have retitled this thread to include the term KISS, so I and hopefully others can do a search and find it.

    I originally posted 4 pictures of different 1970D quarter reverse varities with a description of each. I have now been told by two of the most knowledgeable and prolific posters on this board that it was too much to absorb. Hence this KISS thread.

    But it is the original post that has the pictures at:
    http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=627990&highlight_key=y&keyword1=1970
  • EdscoinEdscoin Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭


    << <i>But it is the original post that has the pictures at: >>


    LINK
    ED
    .....................................................
Sign In or Register to comment.