2002 full BU Euro album.. 96 coins.. value?..

hrlaser

Hi..

i've been offered a gorgeous Lighthouse dark blue, padded, ring-binder style album in a slipcase with ALL 12 original Euroland countries' eight Euro coins.. all coins are already mounted in the album's heavy cardboard pages in their appropriate holes, all coins are BU (none were pulled from circulation, they probably came from bank rolls or "starter kits" issued back then by banks to get Europeans famailiar with the Euro..).. the coins have all been in the album since 2002.. some of the copper 1c and 2c coins have started to develop some rainbow toning around their peripheries..

each of the album's pages holds the eight Euro coins from two countries, in this pattern:

country 1
o o o o
o o o o

contry 2
o o o o
o o o o

with a built-in plastic slider over the coins of each country.. thus sixteen coins per page.. six pages.. each page separated from the one in front and behind it with a same-sized clear plastic sheet.. each page is labelled with both the name of the two countries on it, plus that country's flag.. there's a separate plastic-coated front page with a map of Euroland, and another separate plastic-coated, double-sided page with actual-size pictures of all 96 coins the album was designed to hold..

98% of the coins (roughly) are dated 2002, with a smattering of coins here and there dated 1999, 2000, and 2001.. but the album was bought and the collection assembled in 2002 and been stored in its heavy-duty slipcase since then.. the album itself is in flawless condition (if you know what the huge Lighthouse padded ring binders look like).. thus, there are eight coins per country (one of each Euro denomination from 1c to 2 Euro), times 12 countries.. total of 96 coins in the album..

no coins from San Marino, the Vatican, or Monaco are included.. there is not a single empty hole in the binder..

what would be a reasonable offer for this album?.. the seller is also offering to toss in a first year (2002 i think) Monaco 2 Euro BU coin in a flip as a bonus..

Thanks

ormandh

I wish I knew how one could price that. Good luck. -Dan

JoesMaName

I’ve no idea of the “Value” but this is what I’d do.
Is the source a dealer or collector?
If coin dealer, are US coins their norm?
If so - tell them you’ve no idea of the worth (the truth) and ask if they’ll take 2x face?
2x seems like a good place to start, I'd guess they paid face...
If he laughs or looks aghast say, "ok - so I'm way off - what do you have into it and what were you looking to make?"

farthing

For the most part, unless they are high grade, I would not pay much more than face or 1.5xface for them. You might what to look closely at the Greek euros as some were minted France, Spain and ???Finland???, these are designated by a F, E, or S in one of the stars.

The only countries with a premium are the 3 not included - Monaco, the Vatican and San Marino. The coins in the set are readily available and were saved in large numbers.

The different dates are due to differing laws relating to coinage in each country. Some countries, such as Germany and Italy, were by law required to begin with the 2002 date as 2002 are when they became legal tender. Other countries, such as the Netherlands and Belgium dated the coins based on the year the coin was minted during the ramp-up to the cutover date.

hrlaser

i got on the Vatican's, San Marino's, and Monaco's subscription lists back in 2002 and order multiple sets from them each year.. well except Monaco hasn't sent me an order letter for two years.. i don't know what's gong on with them.. San Marino charged me two months ago for a BU set, a Silver Commemorative, and their first-ever Euro Proof set, which is gonna have a Mintage of only 12,000.. i think that one has potential .. waiting for delivery.. and waiting.. and waiting.. the Vatican charged me about a month ago for two BU sets and one Proof set.. my standard yearly order.. last year they shipped'em faster after charging than any previous year since they went Euro in 2002.. not sure when they're going ship the 2008 sets though.. gotta love their packaging.. it's EXTREMELY quaint.. brown "kraft" paper, glue-sealed all the way around a plastic box into which they cram all three sets.. it's like getting a box of money, both literally and figuratively.. even though their set production limits are up slightly this year.. remarkably, that paper-wrapped box always arrives in absolutely perfect condition, even after travelling all the way from Italy to So. Calif.. the mailman always asks me "did the Pope send you something?"..

i'm REALLY curious how the San Marino Proof set performs, due to its extremely low Mintage and it being the first they've ever made.. haven't heard a peep out of Monaco.. i hope they didn't drop me off their list, but i ordered from them every time they sent me "the letter".. the last thing i got from them, which i think was in 2006, was that odd little three-coin Proof set, in a tiny red Velvet clamshell case.. with only their 1c, 2c, and 5c Euro coins in it.. i have NO idea why they didn't do a full eight coin Euro Proof set that year.. but they haven't sent me "the letter" since then..

i read recently that Monaco got gobsmacked by the Euro bigwigs for charging something like (and i don't remember the exact figure).. something like 200x face value for a Grace Kelly Commemorative, and they've been threatened with getting kicked out of Euroland unless they back off on their pricing.. i could have the details wrong on that, but i'm too lazy to go digging through a stack of magazines to get the facts on which coin they sold at an outrageous markup that got them in trouble..

agentjim007

I purchased a very similiar set (nice uncirculated) in a Dansco album here on the BST board for less than face value. I paid $65 (shipping included) and face was around $70. I still have the set and consider it a keeper. Where else could I put the set together for less than face and a Dansco thrown in.

SYRACUSIAN

In terms of collectable value, none of the coins in the album have any. The only added collectable value to euros, are when they come in the official blister (or other packaging) of each country's mint, especially the ones with low mintages. The Bank of Greece is selling its yearly euro blister of 3.88 euros face for 20 euros, because of the small number of blisters,(the coins are cherrypcked by the Mint workers as I had the opportunity to see last summer at a visit there), and it quickly rises in the secondary market. So I guess that the EU should think of a similar warning to that of San Marino for charging such an outrageous amount.

The Lighthouse album costs itself almost as much as its content, so it gets down to how quicly the owner wants to get rid of a non collectable album that he has. It's a readily available product that any european dealer has in multiple stock.

ProofArtworkonCircs

My 2008 Vatican sets (2 unc, 1 proof) arrived May 31 packaged exactly as described by hrlaser.
They use to sell a few over the counter but it was a mob scene in 2002 and practically a bloody riot in 2003, so no more over the counter sales, but mail order only.

hrlaser

<< <i>My 2008 Vatican sets (2 unc, 1 proof) arrived May 31 packaged exactly as described by hrlaser.
They use to sell a few over the counter but it was a mob scene in 2002 and practically a bloody riot in 2003, so no more over the counter sales, but mail order only. >>



cool.. i'm gonna guess you're an East Coaster?.. so registered mail from the Vatican gets to you a few days before it gets to me, assuming it's shipped at the same time.. so there's hope yet.. maybe my package will show up this week.. maybe monkeys will fly outta my butt..

do you remember what day they hit your plastic for the order?..

i read reports about the mob scenes and near riots at the Vatican's gift shop on the first day of set sales a few years ago, and they decided to shut down in-person sales.. i still have friends asking me how to get on their subscription list, and as far as i know, you can't anymore.. it's full and has been for years.. anyone confirm this?..

i've also seen slimey eBay sellers selling photocopies of THEIR personalized, barcoded Vatican order forms to suckers who think THEY can use them.. they can't.. the Vatican only accepts the original order form.. try to use a photocopy of someone else's with their information blocked out and yours written in, and it goes straight into the round file.. it really grinds my gears to see people who want the Vatican sets at issue price trying to get them by using a copy of someone else's order form.. everyone has his or her own account number with the Vatican, so it can't be done.. same goes for San Marino and Monaco..

getting on all three subscription lists back in 2002 was one of the things i actually did right .. i buy these sets to re-sell, and usually i sell both Unc. sets and what i get for them pays for the whole order, so the Proof set is "free".. then later, i sell that, often doubling, sometimes tripling what the whole order of three sets cost me..

i can't afford Vatican Gold, so i've never ordered any of those..

i did get the 2005 Sede Vacante set three years ago.. that was a separate order form, and the limit was strictly ONE per customer.. i really didn't want to sell it, but financial circumstances forced me into it.. i think i paid about $20.00 for that set and sold it on eBay a month or two ago for $350.00..

hrlaser

<< <i>I purchased a very similiar set (nice uncirculated) in a Dansco album here on the BST board for less than face value. I paid $65 (shipping included) and face was around $70. I still have the set and consider it a keeper. Where else could I put the set together for less than face and a Dansco thrown in. >>



well let's see.. what's the face value of the 96 coins?.. ya got roughly four Euro worth of coins from each country.. times 12, so that's roughly 48 Euro face, times roughly US$1.55 = 1 Euro.. so somewhere in the neighborhood of $75.00 face.. however how long ago did you buy the set?.. what was a Euro worth in US bucks then?.. back in 2002 it was about US$1.00 = €0.80.. the Euro has almost DOUBLED in value against the US$ since then..

i don't know of ANY US-based dealers who would sell a first year complete (except for the three tiny countries).. 96 coin pre-assembled collection in that gorgeous Lighthouse album for a hundred bucks.. do you?.. maybe over in Europe, but not in the USA..

ProofArtworkonCircs

<<do you remember what day they hit your plastic for the order?..>>

Transaction date 05/07 post date 05/09. This was an easy question, it is on my current bill.

Yes, I am on the East coast.

agentjim007

however how long ago did you buy the set?..

I bought my set about 3 months ago for $65 and face was about $70 only slightly less than today.

Smittys

<< <i>I purchased a very similiar set (nice uncirculated) in a Dansco album here on the BST board for less than face value. I paid $65 (shipping included) and face was around $70. I still have the set and consider it a keeper. Where else could I put the set together for less than face and a Dansco thrown in. >>



But you had a real good dealer selling these to you at such a great price.................

hrlaser

<< <i><<do you remember what day they hit your plastic for the order?..>>

Transaction date 05/07 post date 05/09. This was an easy question, it is on my current bill.

Yes, I am on the East coast. >>



prior to 2007, ordering and receiving the Vatican's yearly sets was an agonizingly slow process.. like ordering through the mail with the US Mint back in the 1950s and 1960s..

the Vatican's order form would show up in the mail around June.. i'd fill it out, Air mail it back.. the charge wouldn't show up until August, and the package wouldn't show up until October.. in 2007 they sped up the whole process.. order form arrived in the mail in April, fill it out, send it back, charged in May, package arrives in June..

there's some US law that a merchant has to ship tangible goods within 30 days of hitting your plastic.. apparently that law does not apply to foreign purchases..

i just did my morning online banking.. the Vatican actually hit my debit card the first week of May (i Air mailed them back my order form the day after it came in the mail on 10 April, 2008.. regular Air mail.. $0.80 or whatever it is.. from past experience, i've found that spending ten times as much to use Priority International mail to send them back the order form is a waste of money, as i can't remember a single year when they didn't ship me what i ordered, or shut me out because the order form didn't get back to them "in time".. so i alwyas send it regular Air mail..) ..

i shoot a picture of the filled-out form before i stuff it in the envelope and mail it back, and always try to mail it back the day after i get them..) .. however the "debit authorization" which is a hold on $xxx.xx when a merchant processes a charge on a debit card (even when it's used as a CC since it has an MC logo on it, so the card is "bi").. didn't turn into an actual completed transaction (meaning the money got sucked out of my bank account and transferred to them).. until 5/19/2008.. then two days later a three buck "foreign fee" appeared.. so my bank charges about 1% to convert DollErs to Euros.. so this is just a long-winded way of saying this doesn't give me much confidence that my "box from the Pope' will show up in this week's mail.. but might take another week.. then again, who knows.. i'll get it when i get it..

in the past, i've emailed them at svc@ufn.va with my subscription account number and order details and a kind of "hey you guys charged me on mm/dd/yy, when will my order ship, and say hi to the Pope".. and sometimes they answer and sometimes they don't.. they must run a pretty small-staffed operation there.. i have this mental image of guys in robes sitting on tall stools, tediously cutting and gluing that Kraft paper around those plastic boxes.. but they've sped things up from the six months this ritual used to take..

ProofArtworkonCircs

Well, I am going to have to switch cards for foreign purchases. GM / HSBC (Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation) charged me $9 plus transaction fee. The discount on GM cars is good, but they are a lot of aggravation otherwise.

hrlaser

<< <i>Well, I am going to have to switch cards for foreign purchases. GM / HSBC (Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation) charged me $9 plus transaction fee. The discount on GM cars is good, but they are a lot of aggravation otherwise. >>



that's why i prefer to use a debit card.. CC bills don't pile up at obscene interest rates with late fees and all the accompanying baggage if you miss a payment.. because there ARE no payments.. a debit card linked to your bank account forces you to budget yourself, because it's just a plastic form of cash.. i can go into a supermarket, buy some stuff, swipe the card at the checkout stand, go out to my car, dial my phone banking, and blammo, that money is already sucked out of my checking account.. i was in CC Hell for a few years and it was NOT pleasant.. it's way too easy to just charge stuff you don't need "just because you can".. eh, i'll pay it off later.. oops, how did the balance get up to $20k? then suddenly you're making enormous payments every month at an obscene interest rate.. and in this lovely economy, NO ONE's job is safe.. away goes your job and you're stuck holding the virtual financial baggage.. anyway, your bank is screwing you with those fees.. shop around for something better..

hrlaser

Hi..

for those of you who have never seen one.. this is what a package of coins from the Vatican looks like.. (certain information like my name, address, subscriber number, shoe size, and blood type pixellated for obvious reasons).. when i said quaintly wrapped with brown Kraft paper and glued shut atop a plastic box (like the way you'd gift wrap a box).. i wasn't kidding.. how this can travel so far and arrive in such pristine condition, i'll never know.. but they always look like this.. except for the bar codes, it looks like it was mailed in the 1950s..

contents: two Mint / BU sets, one Proof set..

order form received on 09 April, 2008, filled out and Air mailed back
(regular Air mail..) .. 10 April, 2008, debit authorization charge hit my bank account (i use a
debit card Master card).. around 15 May, 2008 (then a 1% "Foreign fee" followed a
couple days later.. for exchanging Euros into DollErs i suppose.. changed to a debit
charge (meaning the authorization turned into a real charge and away went the money)..
on 19 May, 2008..

then the package finally arrived 04 June, 2008.. so less than two months
between mailing the order and receiving the box of money from the Pope ..

the postmark is very faint but it looks like it could be 27 May, 2008.. if so, eight days
transit by Registered Air mail, Vatican city to So. Calif..

if you remember, and i'm sure some of you do, prior to 2007, the time between
mailing the order form and receiving the package was almost six months..
they've sure gotten faster.. i hear they even have a telephone at the
Vatican now ..

always fun to get a box of money from the Pope..