<< <i>Consider – Why do we have so many nice halves from the early 19th century forward available for collectors? Because they did not circulate as effectively as did smaller denominations. The same applies to silver dollars. They sat in boxes and bags, shuffled from treasury vault-to-bank-to-treasury vault, and generally contributed little to the overall economy. There were certainly local exceptions. Montana, for example, had an active commercial circulation of silver dollars through about 1962. Here’s a quote from the new book on Peace dollars that will be out in the fall.
All of the mints and assay offices routinely pulled worn and mutilated coin from circulation. This was melted, the loss accounted for, and then recoined. Available records show that this was largely gold and small silver, with few halves and dollars >>
Half dollars were used extensively as backing for paper in the early 19th century. People also would sometimes hoard silver during panics or upheavals such as the civil war and would tend to keep larger de- nominations where possible.
The mint melted surprisingly large numbers of coins on an ongoing basis over the years. Even in the 1940's and '50's there were sub- stantial numbers of silver coin being retired due to wear and damage.
This hasn't been true for the Kennedy, of course. The 1964 issue was recovered in small numbers since most were in hoards and the mint never bothered with the 40% coins. The cu/ ni clad has had very little trouble with excessive wear or damage. The process for returning the bad coins to the mint is so cumbersome that very few entities ever ship any coin. There just isn't enough value in coins now to warrant the ex- pense of shipping them so most end up being discarded.
The Kennedy will probably end up with the same fate as nearly all base metal moderns; they'll either lose their value to inflation or they'll be re- called by the issuer and melted. It's interesting to note that silver and gold coins almost never met these fates. They weren't recalled because people wouldn't turn them in anyway. There were some exceptions es- pecially in the distant past where silver coins were heavily used for many decades without any new ones being issued. The coins would wear smooth and then they had to be recoined because counterfeiting would become rampant. The coins also are starting to get pretty light at this stage.
Let me ask another question to put another perspective into this dialogue.
Was the cash register drawer trays partly to blame for the decline in lack of a slot for half dollars? For some reason I thought there was no bin/slot for the half dollar (or was it missing for the dollar coin?)?
Every retail position I ever had from the early 60's through the 70's had a half dollar tray in the change drawer. To say that halves weren't used routinely in the '60's is totally inaccurate.
My first experience as a retailer was at the local pool (in the Midwest) in about 1962 - I subbed for my older brother when he took off to do more important things. At that time, half dollars were as routine as any other coin in change.
Pop machines didn't take halves, simply because the cost of a pop or soda was a dime. I got halves in change, and I spent them with no thought about it one way or the other.
By the early '70s, I would spend them sooner, because quarters were more useful, but the clad halves still circulated. I'd get them occasionally when I worked at the bowling alley in college, and nobody gave it a thought, one way or the other.
In casinos, the only time I noticed halves was when we went to the cheaper establishments that had dollar blackjack. In those situations, you might run into halves on placing a bet with "insurance."
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
My personal recollection is that halves, while certainly less common than the smaller denominations, were regularly used and accepted in retail commerce into the 1970's. I don't agree that they were out of circulation after 1964. It is the dollar coin that has been completely dead in the water, although I do remember a brief period when Ikes were actually used.
On a recent trip to the U.K., I noted that one pound (nice thick planchet) and two pound (bimetallic) coins were quite readily used. Conversely, I encountered no coin smaller than 10 pence. Consider that the British pound sterling is about 2x the U.S. dollar ... so we're talking about a denomination range of 20¢ through $4.00 for coinage. This helps to put in perspective how absolutely ridiculous and useless the U.S. cent coin is today. Even the nickel is arguably pointless - but I'd settle for getting rid of the cent.
One reason for the failure of the dollar coin is the poor choices of designs, sizes, alloys, etc. Another reason is the concurrent availability of dollar bills. The U.S. government will not do away with the dollar bill, as it would be both a metaphorical and a real concession to inflation and the long-term devaluation of our currency. So, as long as the dollar bill is around, the dollar coin will be prone to failure. (I don't think there are still one pound notes in common usage in the U.K.) I do, however, believe that if the dollar coin resembled the one pound coin more closely in diameter, thickness and weight, that it would be more readily accepted than the poor alternatives we have had. I also believe that getting rid of "pennies" would help - fewer coin total in one's pocket means more room for dollar coins.
Ah, I strayed from the original topic, but hope this post is of interest ... .
The Kennedy circulated down south well into the 70s and could often be seen in register drawers into the early 80s. Guess southern folks weren't quite as enamored with JFK and therefore didn't hoard them as in other areas of the country.
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Whenever I go to Vegas, I still get halves when playing blackjack. On a $25/hand bet, blackjack pays $37.50, and you get paid that last $.50 w/ a Kennedy as the big casinos don't have 50 cent chips.
Except for spending the losers from my roll searching, I don't remember ever encountering a half in circulation except for coin shops/shows and casinos. (Born in the '80s).
Reviewing the mintages it looks like ample numbers of half doolars were made between 1905 and just after WW I to circulate as read- ily as quarters. They made a resurgence in the early '50's but it was very brief.
There were nearly enough of the 40% Kennedys made to replace all the silver coins but these have very little wear on them. The cu/ ni coins display no more wear.
Yes, a very interesting post oreville. I really believe that the half dollar did circulate. It was that folks just really didn't notice them being there---didn't give it a lot of thought one way or the other. Let me explain.
In 1947, the population of the U.S. was just over 144 million folks. The total population of Walkers was 485,320,240. That meant that everyone in America was entitled to have approximately 3 Walkers---if everyone got their equal share. That meant that in a family of four you could have 12 Walkers.
Now, if you were a Walker collector in 1947 and were fortunate enough to have the entire set of 65 coins, you had all the coins allowed for about 22 people---or a little over 5 families of four folks. So, while the coins were certainly available, collectors were definitely getting MORE than their share. Thusly, it might have appeared that fewer coins were actually circulating.
Remember also a few other things. In 1935 Numismatic News started---In 1936 the mint started to issue proof coinage---In 1935 the Wayte Raymond pages came into existance---In 1935 the great auction in Baltimore of the gold coins found by two local kids in a cellar took place. That made great news at that time. The Great Depression was now over. So, more collectors were coming into the hobby. Coin collecting was being hyped. By 1947, those 3 Walkers per person probably didn't seem like a lot.
If you take it a little further, and go to 1963---there were 189 million folks here. There had been a total of 466,084,454 Franklin halves minted from 1948 to 1963. That was about 2 and one half Franklins per person. So, in 1963, each of us could have had 3 Walkers and about 2 Franklins. It doesn't take a lot of math to figure that if you had a Franklin set of 35 coins, you had about 4 Families worth of coins in that one set. Again, while the coins were there----many were in sets---and many, many MORE collectors had entered the hobby. So, it might appear to some that halves were not there when, in reality, they were already in the hands of the collectors. By 1963, I know for a fact that I personally had 180 coins between my two Walker sets and my two Franklin sets. That is not counting many other halves that I had saved dating before 1940. With just those 180 coins, this one collector had the halves for what amounted to 36 people's share. So, again, it might have seemed to some that halves were not around.
In 1964---with a total population of 192 million folks--the mint produced 429,509,450 silver kennedy halves. And, from 1965 to 1969 it minted a total of 846,745,006 coins [40% silver] while the population stood at 202 million people. So, in just 6 years the mint produced 1,276,254,456 half dollars. That averaged to about 6 coins per person. So, in just 6 years we were entitled to 6 coins per person---while for 47 years prior we were only entitled to 5 coins total per person. So, for 47 years it might have seemed like there were few halves circulating---while in reality, they were out there doing their very best for the numbers that were available.
And, for those of us who collected back in the 1950's and 1960's----what grades were your Walkers?? Well, I for one, did NOT have a coin that graded a VF20 or higher in my Walker collection until I reached the 1929 year. To my way of thinking that meant the the coins were being heavily used and had worn down. In recent years, I have bought several other complete Walker sets---some that had been started years before mine---and, in virtually every instance, the higher graded coins didn't start until 1936---with the "early" Walkers in no better than a "fine" condition. Thus, to me at least, proving that the Walkers had been heavily circulated.
Now, one final point. As of the pop report from Jan. 2008, PCGS had certified 277,017 Walkers---most in higher grades and MS coins. As of 5/19/08, NGC had certified 179,417 Walker coins---again most of these in higher grades and MS coins. And, as of the October, 2004 ANACS report they had certified 43,830 Walkers of which 28,745 were in MS condition. This gave us a total of 500,264 coins----the higher percentage of which are MS quality. If we were to assume that ALL of the half million were in MS condition---that is still only one tenth of just 1% of the total number of Walkers minted. Even if we doubled that half million---or tripled it---or even if we multiplied it by 10 times to a total of 5 million coins---- that would only be 5 million out of the 485 million plus coins produced. Where are the rest then?? Answer is that they were used---circulated---melted---currently in 1000bags----but definitely they were once available to the consumer.
But, between 1964 and about 1970, all the 90% silver halves went away---All 1,380,914,144 of the 90% silver ones and then later mostly ALL of the 846,745,006 of the 40% halves as well. Not because the American folks wouldn't use them---but, because our government gave us inferior coins---and we knew the others were then worth more---so we hoarded them. And, because we didn't like the 'new' version and would not use them---and for MANY reasons---the half dollar went out of use as a result. JMHO of course. Bob [supertooth]
<< <i>Consider – Why do we have so many nice halves from the early 19th century forward available for collectors? Because they did not circulate as effectively as did smaller denominations. The same applies to silver dollars. They sat in boxes and bags, shuffled from treasury vault-to-bank-to-treasury vault, and generally contributed little to the overall economy. There were certainly local exceptions. Montana, for example, had an active commercial circulation of silver dollars through about 1962. Here’s a quote from the new book on Peace dollars that will be out in the fall:
One might wonder why minting more silver dollars was so important to Mansfield and Metcalf. After all, they represented a state whose population was only 674,767 – forty-first among states. Although a “small” state, Montana was one of the few where cartwheels actually served the needs of local commerce. The coins were commonplace in merchant’s cash drawers, making their way through business and banking channels much like subsidiary silver. The Federal Reserve Bank branch in Helena was consistently among the top three users of silver dollars in the country. The same pattern held through the 1950s, and in fiscal year 1960, the Helena branch distributed 3,950,000 silver dollars, more than any other branch. This consistent local usage helped to confirm Mansfield’s insistence on continued production of the coins.
All of the mints and assay offices routinely pulled worn and mutilated coin from circulation. This was melted, the loss accounted for, and then recoined. Available records show that this was largely gold and small silver, with few halves and dollars >>
I always assumed that the Capped Bust Halves survived in decent condition because there was no federal paper money at the time, no silver dollars and rather limited quantities of federal gold. Therefore, if you needed to make a substantial payment for anything, you did so with bags of half dollars.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>When did casinos use fifty cent peices ? I don't recall ever seeing a fifty cent slot.
Nevada casinos had quite a few 50 cent slot machines in the early 1990s.
>>
Casinos still use fifty cent pieces at the 21 tables for the odd payout on Blackjack. Next time you're in Vegas or Reno, or where ever, look near the dealer's rack and you'll see a couple rolls of halves.
<<Was the cash register drawer trays partly to blame for the decline in lack of a slot for half dollars? For some reason I thought there was no bin/slot for the half dollar (or was it missing for the dollar coin?)?>>
Here is what our cash drawers for our fancy NCR registers looked like in the 1950's.- The cash register had a wooden drawer into which the removable metal tray fit. In the front of the tray there were a row of 5 coin compartments, large enough to hold a roll of coins. Thus we had slots for each coin denomination up to and including halves. Some trays had the leftmost divider missing creating a double width slot. We just threw both halves and quarters into that same slot in that case. On the extreme left we had at least two more coin slots towards the rear. These we used for rolls of coins, keys etc. In the unlikely event of a silver dollar, I would have put it in the half slot or one of the rear catch alls. On the right in back of the coin slots, we had 4 slots for bills. My store used them for 10's, 5's, 2's and 1's. Now we didn't usually have any two's so that slot was used as a catchall for coupons and our pickup tally sheet. (Two dollar bills were another item that banks seem to have in unlimited quantities in New England until 1965. They were actually used quite a bit during the racing season. I have a theory that all red seal money [U. S. Notes - all two's and a few five's] were sent to the Boston Fed in those days. Later, after the two's were eliminated, the five's were used in Washington, D.C.) 20's and higher were thrown under the tray. In the early 1950's, we didn't see that many 20's.
I soon had an experience where a 50 migrated through a crack in my wooden underneath drawer. I was reluctant to put bills there after that. I started puting twenties in the catchall two dollar slots. Soon, everybody in the store copied me. The other stores in the chain used the slots for 20-10-5-1. A new man transferred in and started giving out twenties for fives. Boy, did he cuss me out. This is one of the few times I got credit for one of my inovations.
I am not sure, but suspect modern coin drawers have fewer coin slots, but that might be in response to the lack of halves.
<< <i>I wonder how many coin slots they needed in 1870! >>
That is an excellent question! When did the cash register come into use, anyways? TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I wonder how many coin slots they needed in 1870! >>
That is an excellent question! When did the cash register come into use, anyways? TD >>
The cash register was invented in 1879 by James Ritty, a saloonkeeper in Dayton, Ohio. He patented a machine with a mechanism similar to one he had seen count the revolutions of an ocean liner's propeller in its engine room.
<< <i>A major reason for giving the half dollar it own distinctive design in 1916 was to help encourage its circulation. Demand had been declining for years, yet the mint liked the larger coin because it cost little more than other denominations to strike, yet provided twice the seigniorage of a quarter. After 1904 it was also the nation’s largest silver coin.
Treasury tried again in 1934 to boost circulation by increasing production and by 1938 demand for all coinage was so high that the mints often worked 2 or 3 shifts, six days per week. After WW-II ended demand plummeted, and huge stocks of halves sat in the mint and Federal Reserve Bank vaults. This was the primary reason no Franklin halves were struck at San Francisco in 1948.
Halves have not been an important part of circulating coinage since about 1946 – regardless to mintage quantities. >>
I miss the sound of the coins hitting the metal trays in the slot machine rooms at the casinos.
Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
The original main function of the cash register was to keep the clerks honest. Once a sale was rung in, it was counted and you better have the money in the till to match. It was designed to keep the clerks from skimming. Thus, it was a big no-no to NOT ring up a sale, but to just lay the money on the cash register. Of course, the A&P had another separate strongly urged goal. Bring up the average sale. I felt this was pretty much out of my control. But one store where I worked (an old fashioned, almost one man A&P), the local rule was to throw the money from a 5 cent candy bar sale on the shelf of the cash rigester without ringing it in. When you had $2.00 there, you rang in $2, thus bringing up the average sale. As far as I could tell, all money was eventually rung in. I felt embarrased though in not ringing it in, in front of the customer. (Wow, I just wrote "in in" and I think it is a correct usage).
The way I remember it is during the mid 60's when silver got to the point where a dollars worth of silver was worth more then a dollar. That was the beginning of the halves demise. Didn't it get to the point where the mint no longer accepted silver certificates and at the very end paid out in granules? Halves got a slight resurgence in 75 and 76 with the bicentennial coins.
It was a slow death from 1965 thru 1980. I don't think any one thing did it in though.
I looked at the cash register tray at the local super market today. It is very nearly what we had 50 years ago (and probably many years before that). The leftmost front bin where we put our halves is a tad wider and was being used to hold 3 wrapped rolls of dimes in the one I saw today. The area just behind it was one large bin with more rolls of coins. I had said I thought we had two bins in that location, but after 50 years, I am not sure.
I have been polling the dealers on our dealer-to-dealer network as to what percentage of the face value of the 90% silver they have bought in over the years has been in halves, and the least percentage that anybody reported was 20%. Most said 25% or 30%, and one or two said 35%. Many of these dealers have been in the business buying silver since before the Hunt Brothers flood.
Perhaps because 5 million dimes equates to only 1 million halves the halves appear to be scarcer in circulation, but they carry just as much weight both literally and figuratively. If half dollar had not been in substantial circulation prior to 1964 people would not have had them to sell later. The half dollar did circulate.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Close to one-third of 90% silver halves made since 1916 were 1964-dated Kennedys. These didn't circulate much at all, they were hoarded both as mementos and as silver.
I'm guessing that a substantial number of the halves in 90% bags are uncirculated and AU 1964 Kennedys.
Halves seemed common enough previous to 1964, but they certainly were NOT living in cash registers in any quantity. I suspect most were in banks. I did know of several people who hoarded them (or just the new style Franklins) as a method of saving or whatever. Occasionaly somebody would turn in a bunch at the store. I suspect silver hoarders would have a preference for halves which might skew the results when turned in for melting.
Would like to offer a little more thought to this matter. If half dollars didn't circulate and if indeed all of them were in bank vaults and the like, how come that we didn't have GSA sales back in the 1970's for Unc or BU Walker halves?? Or Franklin halves for that matter?
Certainly, there was a potential for the government to make money here----just as with the Morgan Dollars? My guess would be that while banks "may" have had considerable amounts of ALL silver coins on hand---up to about 1964 or a little later---the halves---as well as the dimes and quarters---were in circulated bags or rolls. I doubt that our government would have missed an opportunity to sell us a nice BU roll of Walkers---if they had had them in any quantity. I know that I would have bought some rolls---just as I bought the CC Morgans back then.
The other thing that comes to mind is Ebay sales. I have followed the Walker sales on Ebay for almost 10 years now. While it would be impossible to actually count the number of Walkers that have gone through those sales for the last 10 years, one can offer some stats. There are at least 4,000 listings in Walkers each and every week. These listings may be just one coin---or multiples of coins---even complete sets or bags of coins in just one listing. If you multiply it all out, that comes to at least a few million Walkers on Ebay over the last 10 years. And, Ebay is but ONE venue of how Walkers are found and sold in this country today. Gosh knows how many Franklins have been offered over these same 10 years??
As Tom [Capt Henway] states, there are dealers everywhere buying and selling half dollars among the bags upon bags of silver coins---each and every week that their businesses operate. If between 20% and 35% of these silver coins are half dollars, then that certainly constitutes a lot of halves. And, if they were Unc Walkers or Franklins, I doubt that they would be in scrap or junk silver bags today? Even a 1943 Walker in Unc. is worth several times its junk silver value.
And, we must also keep in mind that we have had over 60 years since the last year of the Walker minting in 1947. For this many Walkers to still be pretty readily available indicates to me that there are still many "circulated" coins still out there to be found among the closets of America---not to mention the safes and SDB all over this country----and the old time collections that seem to crop up when collectors pass away. I have personally bought a few over the last several years. Among them were two collections of Unc. coins that had been housed in the old Wayte pages since 1936---since the original collectors placed those coins there when they were minted. Each of these coins cost the collectors "mostly" only the fifty cents that it took to exchange them for monies of equal value. Back in the late 1930's and 1940's most collectors NEVER paid a substantial premium for "newly minted" coins like we do today.
I must add that you will mostly "SIMPLY NOT" find Walker sets out there with higher graded coins from the "early" Walker years---1916 to 1933S. If you do---'buy them'. But, what you 'will' find are a lot of sets and partial sets with an awful lot of AG--GOOD---VG---and Fine coins in them. Once again indicating that the "circulated" coins were saved---and that they were indeed placed into circulation for public use. Bob [supertooth]
<< <i>I have been polling the dealers on our dealer-to-dealer network as to what percentage of the face value of the 90% silver they have bought in over the years has been in halves, and the least percentage that anybody reported was 20%. Most said 25% or 30%, and one or two said 35%. Many of these dealers have been in the business buying silver since before the Hunt Brothers flood. >>
This is why I assume that the FED melted relatively few half dollars in 1969.
Not only would people pull them out in preference to other coins but they would be available since a large percentage of the mintage was in the final year (1964). When you factor in that relatively few half dollars were produced except from 1905-1920 and 1950-'54 it leaves lots of bags of halfs today with most of them either circulated or unc 1964's. Though there are more than a few '63 unc bags too, and a few '62's.
There's no question the halfs circulated at least in some parts of the country. But, at least in this part they simply didn't circulate as freely as quarters.
<< <i>When did casinos use fifty cent peices ? I don't recall ever seeing a fifty cent slot.
50 cents = 2 bits, correct ? >>
50 cent slots were all over the place in Tunica Mississippi as recently as five years ago, and used regular half dollars (not tokens). I haven't been back since.
Comments
<< <i>Consider – Why do we have so many nice halves from the early 19th century forward available for collectors? Because they did not circulate as effectively as did smaller denominations. The same applies to silver dollars. They sat in boxes and bags, shuffled from treasury vault-to-bank-to-treasury vault, and generally contributed little to the overall economy. There were certainly local exceptions. Montana, for example, had an active commercial circulation of silver dollars through about 1962. Here’s a quote from the new book on Peace dollars that will be out in the fall.
All of the mints and assay offices routinely pulled worn and mutilated coin from circulation. This was melted, the loss accounted for, and then recoined. Available records show that this was largely gold and small silver, with few halves and dollars >>
Half dollars were used extensively as backing for paper in the early
19th century. People also would sometimes hoard silver during panics
or upheavals such as the civil war and would tend to keep larger de-
nominations where possible.
The mint melted surprisingly large numbers of coins on an ongoing
basis over the years. Even in the 1940's and '50's there were sub-
stantial numbers of silver coin being retired due to wear and damage.
This hasn't been true for the Kennedy, of course. The 1964 issue was
recovered in small numbers since most were in hoards and the mint
never bothered with the 40% coins. The cu/ ni clad has had very little
trouble with excessive wear or damage. The process for returning the
bad coins to the mint is so cumbersome that very few entities ever ship
any coin. There just isn't enough value in coins now to warrant the ex-
pense of shipping them so most end up being discarded.
The Kennedy will probably end up with the same fate as nearly all base
metal moderns; they'll either lose their value to inflation or they'll be re-
called by the issuer and melted. It's interesting to note that silver and
gold coins almost never met these fates. They weren't recalled because
people wouldn't turn them in anyway. There were some exceptions es-
pecially in the distant past where silver coins were heavily used for many
decades without any new ones being issued. The coins would wear
smooth and then they had to be recoined because counterfeiting would
become rampant. The coins also are starting to get pretty light at this
stage.
Let me ask another question to put another perspective into this dialogue.
Was the cash register drawer trays partly to blame for the decline in lack of a slot for half dollars?
For some reason I thought there was no bin/slot for the half dollar (or was it missing for the dollar coin?)?
My first experience as a retailer was at the local pool (in the Midwest) in about 1962 - I subbed for my older brother when he took off to do more important things. At that time, half dollars were as routine as any other coin in change.
Pop machines didn't take halves, simply because the cost of a pop or soda was a dime. I got halves in change, and I spent them with no thought about it one way or the other.
By the early '70s, I would spend them sooner, because quarters were more useful, but the clad halves still circulated. I'd get them occasionally when I worked at the bowling alley in college, and nobody gave it a thought, one way or the other.
In casinos, the only time I noticed halves was when we went to the cheaper establishments that had dollar blackjack. In those situations, you might run into halves on placing a bet with "insurance."
I knew it would happen.
On a recent trip to the U.K., I noted that one pound (nice thick planchet) and two pound (bimetallic) coins were quite readily used. Conversely, I encountered no coin smaller than 10 pence. Consider that the British pound sterling is about 2x the U.S. dollar ... so we're talking about a denomination range of 20¢ through $4.00 for coinage. This helps to put in perspective how absolutely ridiculous and useless the U.S. cent coin is today. Even the nickel is arguably pointless - but I'd settle for getting rid of the cent.
One reason for the failure of the dollar coin is the poor choices of designs, sizes, alloys, etc. Another reason is the concurrent availability of dollar bills. The U.S. government will not do away with the dollar bill, as it would be both a metaphorical and a real concession to inflation and the long-term devaluation of our currency. So, as long as the dollar bill is around, the dollar coin will be prone to failure. (I don't think there are still one pound notes in common usage in the U.K.) I do, however, believe that if the dollar coin resembled the one pound coin more closely in diameter, thickness and weight, that it would be more readily accepted than the poor alternatives we have had. I also believe that getting rid of "pennies" would help - fewer coin total in one's pocket means more room for dollar coins.
Ah, I strayed from the original topic, but hope this post is of interest ... .
Best,
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Guess southern folks weren't quite as enamored with JFK and therefore didn't hoard them as in other areas of the country.
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Except for spending the losers from my roll searching, I don't remember ever encountering a half in circulation except for coin shops/shows and casinos. (Born in the '80s).
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
were made between 1905 and just after WW I to circulate as read-
ily as quarters. They made a resurgence in the early '50's but it was
very brief.
There were nearly enough of the 40% Kennedys made to replace all
the silver coins but these have very little wear on them. The cu/ ni
coins display no more wear.
In 1947, the population of the U.S. was just over 144 million folks. The total population of Walkers was 485,320,240. That meant that everyone in America was entitled to have approximately 3 Walkers---if everyone got their equal share. That meant that in a family of four you could have 12 Walkers.
Now, if you were a Walker collector in 1947 and were fortunate enough to have the entire set of 65 coins, you had all the coins allowed for about 22 people---or a little over 5 families of four folks. So, while the coins were certainly available, collectors were definitely getting MORE than their share. Thusly, it might have appeared that fewer coins were actually circulating.
Remember also a few other things. In 1935 Numismatic News started---In 1936 the mint started to issue proof coinage---In 1935 the Wayte Raymond pages came into existance---In 1935 the great auction in Baltimore of the gold coins found by two local kids in a cellar took place. That made great news at that time. The Great Depression was now over. So, more collectors were coming into the hobby. Coin collecting was being hyped. By 1947, those 3 Walkers per person probably didn't seem like a lot.
If you take it a little further, and go to 1963---there were 189 million folks here. There had been a total of 466,084,454 Franklin halves minted from 1948 to 1963. That was about 2 and one half Franklins per person. So, in 1963, each of us could have had 3 Walkers and about 2 Franklins. It doesn't take a lot of math to figure that if you had a Franklin set of 35 coins, you had about 4 Families worth of coins in that one set. Again, while the coins were there----many were in sets---and many, many MORE collectors had entered the hobby. So, it might appear to some that halves were not there when, in reality, they were already in the hands of the collectors. By 1963, I know for a fact that I personally had 180 coins between my two Walker sets and my two Franklin sets. That is not counting many other halves that I had saved dating before 1940. With just those 180 coins, this one collector had the halves for what amounted to 36 people's share. So, again, it might have seemed to some that halves were not around.
In 1964---with a total population of 192 million folks--the mint produced 429,509,450 silver kennedy halves. And, from 1965 to 1969 it minted a total of 846,745,006 coins [40% silver] while the population stood at 202 million people. So, in just 6 years the mint produced 1,276,254,456 half dollars. That averaged to about 6 coins per person. So, in just 6 years we were entitled to 6 coins per person---while for 47 years prior we were only entitled to 5 coins total per person. So, for 47 years it might have seemed like there were few halves circulating---while in reality, they were out there doing their very best for the numbers that were available.
And, for those of us who collected back in the 1950's and 1960's----what grades were your Walkers?? Well, I for one, did NOT have a coin that graded a VF20 or higher in my Walker collection until I reached the 1929 year. To my way of thinking that meant the the coins were being heavily used and had worn down. In recent years, I have bought several other complete Walker sets---some that had been started years before mine---and, in virtually every instance, the higher graded coins didn't start until 1936---with the "early" Walkers in no better than a "fine" condition. Thus, to me at least, proving that the Walkers had been heavily circulated.
Now, one final point. As of the pop report from Jan. 2008, PCGS had certified 277,017 Walkers---most in higher grades and MS coins. As of 5/19/08, NGC had certified 179,417 Walker coins---again most of these in higher grades and MS coins. And, as of the October, 2004 ANACS report they had certified 43,830 Walkers of which 28,745 were in MS condition. This gave us a total of 500,264 coins----the higher percentage of which are MS quality. If we were to assume that ALL of the half million were in MS condition---that is still only one tenth of just 1% of the total number of Walkers minted. Even if we doubled that half million---or tripled it---or even if we multiplied it by 10 times to a total of 5 million coins---- that would only be 5 million out of the 485 million plus coins produced. Where are the rest then?? Answer is that they were used---circulated---melted---currently in 1000bags----but definitely they were once available to the consumer.
But, between 1964 and about 1970, all the 90% silver halves went away---All 1,380,914,144 of the 90% silver ones and then later mostly ALL of the 846,745,006 of the 40% halves as well. Not because the American folks wouldn't use them---but, because our government gave us inferior coins---and we knew the others were then worth more---so we hoarded them. And, because we didn't like the 'new' version and would not use them---and for MANY reasons---the half dollar went out of use as a result. JMHO of course. Bob [supertooth]
<< <i>Consider – Why do we have so many nice halves from the early 19th century forward available for collectors? Because they did not circulate as effectively as did smaller denominations. The same applies to silver dollars. They sat in boxes and bags, shuffled from treasury vault-to-bank-to-treasury vault, and generally contributed little to the overall economy. There were certainly local exceptions. Montana, for example, had an active commercial circulation of silver dollars through about 1962. Here’s a quote from the new book on Peace dollars that will be out in the fall:
One might wonder why minting more silver dollars was so important to Mansfield and Metcalf. After all, they represented a state whose population was only 674,767 – forty-first among states. Although a “small” state, Montana was one of the few where cartwheels actually served the needs of local commerce. The coins were commonplace in merchant’s cash drawers, making their way through business and banking channels much like subsidiary silver. The Federal Reserve Bank branch in Helena was consistently among the top three users of silver dollars in the country. The same pattern held through the 1950s, and in fiscal year 1960, the Helena branch distributed 3,950,000 silver dollars, more than any other branch. This consistent local usage helped to confirm Mansfield’s insistence on continued production of the coins.
All of the mints and assay offices routinely pulled worn and mutilated coin from circulation. This was melted, the loss accounted for, and then recoined. Available records show that this was largely gold and small silver, with few halves and dollars >>
I always assumed that the Capped Bust Halves survived in decent condition because there was no federal paper money at the time, no silver dollars and rather limited quantities of federal gold. Therefore, if you needed to make a substantial payment for anything, you did so with bags of half dollars.
TD
Nevada casinos had quite a few 50 cent slot machines in the early 1990s.
The dollar coin is so big it should be valued at $5.
The Ike dollar had a value of about $6 to $10 in today's money when it was issued in 1971.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>When did casinos use fifty cent peices ? I don't recall ever seeing a fifty cent slot.
Nevada casinos had quite a few 50 cent slot machines in the early 1990s.
>>
Casinos still use fifty cent pieces at the 21 tables for the odd payout on Blackjack. Next time you're in Vegas or Reno, or where ever, look near the dealer's rack and you'll see a couple rolls of halves.
For some reason I thought there was no bin/slot for the half dollar (or was it missing for the dollar coin?)?>>
Here is what our cash drawers for our fancy NCR registers looked like in the 1950's.-
The cash register had a wooden drawer into which the removable metal tray fit. In the front of the tray there were a row of 5 coin compartments, large enough to hold a roll of coins. Thus we had slots for each coin denomination up to and including halves. Some trays had the leftmost divider missing creating a double width slot. We just threw both halves and quarters into that same slot in that case. On the extreme left we had at least two more coin slots towards the rear. These we used for rolls of coins, keys etc. In the unlikely event of a silver dollar, I would have put it in the half slot or one of the rear catch alls. On the right in back of the coin slots, we had 4 slots for bills. My store used them for 10's, 5's, 2's and 1's. Now we didn't usually have any two's so that slot was used as a catchall for coupons and our pickup tally sheet. (Two dollar bills were another item that banks seem to have in unlimited quantities in New England until 1965. They were actually used quite a bit during the racing season. I have a theory that all red seal money [U. S. Notes - all two's and a few five's] were sent to the Boston Fed in those days. Later, after the two's were eliminated, the five's were used in Washington, D.C.) 20's and higher were thrown under the tray. In the early 1950's, we didn't see that many 20's.
I soon had an experience where a 50 migrated through a crack in my wooden underneath drawer. I was reluctant to put bills there after that. I started puting twenties in the catchall two dollar slots. Soon, everybody in the store copied me. The other stores in the chain used the slots for 20-10-5-1. A new man transferred in and started giving out twenties for fives. Boy, did he cuss me out. This is one of the few times I got credit for one of my inovations.
I am not sure, but suspect modern coin drawers have fewer coin slots, but that might be in response to the lack of halves.
I wonder how many coin slots they needed in 1870!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I wonder how many coin slots they needed in 1870!
That is an excellent question!
When did the cash register come into use, anyways?
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder how many coin slots they needed in 1870!
That is an excellent question!
When did the cash register come into use, anyways?
TD >>
The cash register was invented in 1879 by James Ritty, a saloonkeeper in Dayton, Ohio. He patented a machine with a mechanism similar to one he had seen count the revolutions of an ocean liner's propeller in its engine room.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>A major reason for giving the half dollar it own distinctive design in 1916 was to help encourage its circulation. Demand had been declining for years, yet the mint liked the larger coin because it cost little more than other denominations to strike, yet provided twice the seigniorage of a quarter. After 1904 it was also the nation’s largest silver coin.
Treasury tried again in 1934 to boost circulation by increasing production and by 1938 demand for all coinage was so high that the mints often worked 2 or 3 shifts, six days per week. After WW-II ended demand plummeted, and huge stocks of halves sat in the mint and Federal Reserve Bank vaults. This was the primary reason no Franklin halves were struck at San Francisco in 1948.
Halves have not been an important part of circulating coinage since about 1946 – regardless to mintage quantities. >>
Nice background RWB
a dollars worth of silver was worth more then a dollar. That was the beginning of the halves
demise. Didn't it get to the point where the mint no longer accepted silver certificates and at the very
end paid out in granules? Halves got a slight resurgence in 75 and 76 with the bicentennial coins.
It was a slow death from 1965 thru 1980. I don't think any one thing did it in though.
Steve
Perhaps because 5 million dimes equates to only 1 million halves the halves appear to be scarcer in circulation, but they carry just as much weight both literally and figuratively. If half dollar had not been in substantial circulation prior to 1964 people would not have had them to sell later. The half dollar did circulate.
TD
Close to one-third of 90% silver halves made since 1916 were 1964-dated Kennedys. These didn't circulate much at all, they were hoarded both as mementos and as silver.
I'm guessing that a substantial number of the halves in 90% bags are uncirculated and AU 1964 Kennedys.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I suspect silver hoarders would have a preference for halves which might skew the results when turned in for melting.
Certainly, there was a potential for the government to make money here----just as with the Morgan Dollars? My guess would be that while banks "may" have had considerable amounts of ALL silver coins on hand---up to about 1964 or a little later---the halves---as well as the dimes and quarters---were in circulated bags or rolls. I doubt that our government would have missed an opportunity to sell us a nice BU roll of Walkers---if they had had them in any quantity. I know that I would have bought some rolls---just as I bought the CC Morgans back then.
The other thing that comes to mind is Ebay sales. I have followed the Walker sales on Ebay for almost 10 years now. While it would be impossible to actually count the number of Walkers that have gone through those sales for the last 10 years, one can offer some stats. There are at least 4,000 listings in Walkers each and every week. These listings may be just one coin---or multiples of coins---even complete sets or bags of coins in just one listing. If you multiply it all out, that comes to at least a few million Walkers on Ebay over the last 10 years. And, Ebay is but ONE venue of how Walkers are found and sold in this country today. Gosh knows how many Franklins have been offered over these same 10 years??
As Tom [Capt Henway] states, there are dealers everywhere buying and selling half dollars among the bags upon bags of silver coins---each and every week that their businesses operate. If between 20% and 35% of these silver coins are half dollars, then that certainly constitutes a lot of halves. And, if they were Unc Walkers or Franklins, I doubt that they would be in scrap or junk silver bags today? Even a 1943 Walker in Unc. is worth several times its junk silver value.
And, we must also keep in mind that we have had over 60 years since the last year of the Walker minting in 1947. For this many Walkers to still be pretty readily available indicates to me that there are still many "circulated" coins still out there to be found among the closets of America---not to mention the safes and SDB all over this country----and the old time collections that seem to crop up when collectors pass away. I have personally bought a few over the last several years. Among them were two collections of Unc. coins that had been housed in the old Wayte pages since 1936---since the original collectors placed those coins there when they were minted. Each of these coins cost the collectors "mostly" only the fifty cents that it took to exchange them for monies of equal value. Back in the late 1930's and 1940's most collectors NEVER paid a substantial premium for "newly minted" coins like we do today.
I must add that you will mostly "SIMPLY NOT" find Walker sets out there with higher graded coins from the "early" Walker years---1916 to 1933S. If you do---'buy them'. But, what you 'will' find are a lot of sets and partial sets with an awful lot of AG--GOOD---VG---and Fine coins in them. Once again indicating that the "circulated" coins were saved---and that they were indeed placed into circulation for public use. Bob [supertooth]
<< <i>I have been polling the dealers on our dealer-to-dealer network as to what percentage of the face value of the 90% silver they have bought in over the years has been in halves, and the least percentage that anybody reported was 20%. Most said 25% or 30%, and one or two said 35%. Many of these dealers have been in the business buying silver since before the Hunt Brothers flood.
>>
This is why I assume that the FED melted relatively few half dollars in 1969.
Not only would people pull them out in preference to other coins but they would be
available since a large percentage of the mintage was in the final year (1964). When
you factor in that relatively few half dollars were produced except from 1905-1920 and
1950-'54 it leaves lots of bags of halfs today with most of them either circulated or unc
1964's. Though there are more than a few '63 unc bags too, and a few '62's.
There's no question the halfs circulated at least in some parts of the country. But, at
least in this part they simply didn't circulate as freely as quarters.
<< <i>When did casinos use fifty cent peices ?
I don't recall ever seeing a fifty cent slot.
50 cents = 2 bits, correct ? >>
50 cent slots were all over the place in Tunica Mississippi as recently as five years ago, and used regular half dollars (not tokens). I haven't been back since.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
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