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What is similar and different between Big Brown and the Mets?
stevek
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What is similar and different between Big Brown and the Mets?
Both were 1-5 before the race started.
Both were 1-5 before the race started.
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Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>What's the difference between SteveK and a blowhard who continues to make up inane and pointless threads?
Get used to it Jerry, because it's gonna get a whole lot worse as your Pets keep going lower and lower and lower. You all brought it out on yourselves, chirpin' like a bunch of singing canaries all preseason. I don't hear any singing now Jerry.
And Jerry...what's a happenin' to that prediction of yours that your Pets would have a 10 game lead by the All Star break? That prediction ain't looking too good right now is it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Steve
<< <i>It's along season, Stevey...as you saw last year, the tide can turn any time, so I'm not worried. And when the Mets pass the Sillies in the standings, I won't be creating multiple threads like yr fellow Philly fan Kevin....oh wait, he hates the Eagles... >>
You're of course right that it is a long season, but the reason for the anti-Mets threads was to stick it to all the Mets fans who before the season began, expected the NL pennant to be handed to them, and on with the World Series.
But if you feel I'm crossing the line between smack talk and "blowhard" then I'll back off with the anti-Mets threads. However, if it's an interesting series between the Mets and Phillies, then I reserve the right to smack away again.
<< <i>What is similar and different between Big Brown and the Mets?
Both were 1-5 before the race started. >>
Big Brown has one more good leg than the entire Mets roster?
Big Brown will prove next week that it's actually possible to win in New York?
Big Brown has never pinch hit for Carlos Delgado but still has a better average?
Somewhere in horse heaven Barbaro is laughing at the Mets.
Like I said a dream world, I do not recall anything like that.
Steve
But if you feel I'm crossing the line between smack talk and "blowhard" then I'll back off with the anti-Mets threads. However, if it's an interesting series between the Mets and Phillies, then I reserve the right to smack away again.
Don't mind me, Steve, I've just been a bit cranky of late, and I just can't stand looking at Sillie Randolph in the dugout anymore.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Minaya went into the season hoping that Moises Alou would stay healhty. He went into the season hoping that Carlos Delgado would be able to have a comeback year. He went into the season hoping that Pedro Martinez would be the #2 man on the staff. He went into this season hoping that he wouldn't need to dip into the minors as he has ZERO talent there that is ready for the majors.
Guess what Mets fans? Minaya's hopes have proven to be pipe dreams. Wright is the heart of that team, but when malcontents like Delgado and Reyes are more concerned about dancing and joking, they've got little to look forward to.
They're buried with an above average centerfielder with a superstar contract, no offense from 1B, 2B, LF, and catcher and a minor league system that has little to use as trade bait to correct the problems that the Mets have.
The worst part of the Mets situation, is that there is little hope in sight. Santana? Sure, he's a horse. Maine? A very solid #3 starter. Wagner? The second best closer in NY. The rest of the pitching staff? Nitro Glycerin! Completely unstable and always ready to explode!
The Phillies have their own issues, number one being their manager, but that never seems to stop their fans from making more noise than a cat with it's tail in a blender.
Lest you forget, Willie Randolph IS the new Gene Mauch. And the only reason I would ever want to go to Philly is to see a Springsteen concert.
You may now resume your Mets/Phillies pissing contest. I'm going to go watch the Yankees pull their collective heads out of their butts and begin to play some real baseball...
You were actually making some sense there, up until that last sentence. Are you kidding? The Yankees have been the poster children for an overpaid, underachieving team for years now, and there's even less to crow about this season in The Bronx than there is in Flushing right now. At least we've actually WON a playoff series in the last 3 years. And figures a lifelong Yankee like Willie Randolph would run this team into ground worse than Art Howe ever did (and then blame and whine to the media, too). Have fun trying to pass Tampa Bay!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>The Mets have one big problem. Omar! When your stategy is "hope," then you don't have a stategy, you have impending disaster!
Minaya went into the season hoping that Moises Alou would stay healhty. He went into the season hoping that Carlos Delgado would be able to have a comeback year. He went into the season hoping that Pedro Martinez would be the #2 man on the staff. He went into this season hoping that he wouldn't need to dip into the minors as he has ZERO talent there that is ready for the majors.
Guess what Mets fans? Minaya's hopes have proven to be pipe dreams. Wright is the heart of that team, but when malcontents like Delgado and Reyes are more concerned about dancing and joking, they've got little to look forward to.
They're buried with an above average centerfielder with a superstar contract, no offense from 1B, 2B, LF, and catcher and a minor league system that has little to use as trade bait to correct the problems that the Mets have.
The worst part of the Mets situation, is that there is little hope in sight. Santana? Sure, he's a horse. Maine? A very solid #3 starter. Wagner? The second best closer in NY. The rest of the pitching staff? Nitro Glycerin! Completely unstable and always ready to explode!
The Phillies have their own issues, number one being their manager, but that never seems to stop their fans from making more noise than a cat with it's tail in a blender.
Lest you forget, Willie Randolph IS the new Gene Mauch. And the only reason I would ever want to go to Philly is to see a Springsteen concert.
You may now resume your Mets/Phillies pissing contest. I'm going to go watch the Yankees pull their collective heads out of their butts and begin to play some real baseball... >>
<<< Lest you forget, Willie Randolph IS the new Gene Mauch >>>
Perhaps the worst comparison I've ever seen. Gene Mauch was an excellent manager. Yes, he gets "blamed" for the Phillies collapse in 1964, but the talent he had on that team was definitely inferior to other teams in the NL at that time. The "collapse" was really just the odds catching up to that team at the end of the season. And without going into a Gene Mauch history, he was also unlucky as well in some other seasons with other teams.
Gene Mauch could manage a baseball team - Willie Randolph is a first class joke, arguably one of the worst managers of all time.
<< <i>.....The "collapse" was really just the odds catching up to that team at the end of the season....... >>
Yeah it had nothing to do with the panic stricken way he handled the pitching staff.
<< <i>
<< <i>.....The "collapse" was really just the odds catching up to that team at the end of the season....... >>
Yeah it had nothing to do with the panic stricken way he handled the pitching staff. >>
Well, comments like yours have become sort of an "urbad legend" and don't completely "jive" with the facts of the time. "Nobody" in Philly at that time was calling for the head of Gene Mauch after the season was over. It's easy to judge everything after the season is over, but it seemed like a good idea at the time, especially with two all star pitchers on your staff. A number of those losing games were close, and like I stated, I feel it was more the odds catching up to this team, in a bad streak, at the end of the season, when it was most noticeable.
150 Sun, Sep 20 box PHI @LAD W 3-2 90-60 1 up 6.5 2:26 J Bunning J Brewer 25,867 +
151 Mon, Sep 21 box PHI CIN L 0-1 90-61 1 up 5.5 2:30 J Tsitouris A Mahaffey 20,067 -
152 Tue, Sep 22 box PHI CIN L 2-9 90-62 1 up 4.5 2:37 J O'Toole C Short 21,232 --
153 Wed, Sep 23 box PHI CIN L 4-6 90-63 1 up 3.5 2:50 B McCool D Bennett 23,247 ---
154 Thu, Sep 24 box PHI MLN L 3-5 90-64 1 up 3.0 2:29 W Blasingame J Bunning 17,342 ----
155 Fri, Sep 25 box PHI MLN L 5-7 (12) 90-65 1 up 1.5 3:48 C Carroll J Boozer 30,447 -----
156 Sat, Sep 26 box PHI MLN L 4-6 90-66 1 up 0.5 3:01 W Blasingame B Shantz 14,330 ------
157 Sun, Sep 27 box PHI MLN L 8-14 90-67 2 1.0 3:00 T Cloninger J Bunning 20,569 -------
158 Mon, Sep 28 box PHI @STL L 1-5 90-68 3 1.5 2:13 B Gibson C Short 24,146 --------
159 Tue, Sep 29 box PHI @STL L 2-4 90-69 3 1.5 2:32 R Sadecki D Bennett 27,433 ---------
160 Wed, Sep 30 box PHI @STL L 5-8 90-70 3 2.5 2:25 C Simmons J Bunning 29,920 ----------
161 Fri, Oct 2 box PHI @CIN W 4-3 91-70 3 1.5 2:17 E Roebuck B McCool 25,221 +
162 Sun, Oct 4 box PHI @CIN W 10-0 92-70 2 1.0 2:28 J Bunning J Tsitouris 28,535
Above are the stats from those last games - Yes, a few games were blowouts but a number were close with the Phillies only losing by a few runs. Should Mauch have done this differently? Probably, but hindsight is always 100% right. One or two Philly homeruns at the right time in a few games, and Mauch may have looked like a genius.
But even if it was 100% certain that the managing decisions by Gene Mauch at the end of the 1964 season were poor decisions, in my opinion Gene Mauch got the most he could out of a lot of bad, marginal teams he managed throughout his career, and I would still rate Mauch as an excellent manager. To compare him to the incompetent Willie Randolph is ludicrous.
Sorry, but while Mauch may have been a decent manager, he accomplished very, very little other than longevity in his field. Lest anyone forget his '81 Angels blowing a 2-0 series lead in the ALDS best of five against Milwaukee or the meltdown against the Red Sox in '86. No? Maybe the 23 straight losses in '61 or 20 straight losses in '69? Mauch has the distinction of having been the manager during some of the worst losing streaks and collapses of three different baseball squads over a 25 year period. Coincidence?
Randolph may eventually prove to be just as snake-bitten. Who knows? But he's not the reason sole for the Mets pathetic performance. It's the team that Minaya has assembled. Sadly, Willie has taken the brunt of the blame and his childish whining and complaints of racial bias from the media have only cemented his inevitable demise.
Roster to roster, the Mets are the fourth best team in their division behind Philly, Atlanta, and Florida. Is that Willie's fault? Even Bobby Cox couldn't win with this team!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>.....The "collapse" was really just the odds catching up to that team at the end of the season....... >>
Yeah it had nothing to do with the panic stricken way he handled the pitching staff. >>
A number of those losing games were close
Yes, a few games were blowouts but a number were close with the Phillies only losing by a few runs
One or two Philly homeruns at the right time in a few games.
>>
spoken like a fan of a horrible franchise.
we lost, but we lost close darn it!
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>You may now resume your Mets/Phillies pissing contest. I'm going to go watch the Yankees pull their collective heads out of their butts and begin to play some real baseball...
You were actually making some sense there, up until that last sentence. Are you kidding? The Yankees have been the poster children for an overpaid, underachieving team for years now, and there's even less to crow about this season in The Bronx than there is in Flushing right now. At least we've actually WON a playoff series in the last 3 years. And figures a lifelong Yankee like Willie Randolph would run this team into ground worse than Art Howe ever did (and then blame and whine to the media, too). Have fun trying to pass Tampa Bay! >>
Obviously, you're reading more into what I wrote than is there. The Yankees, albeit overpriced and overrated, finally are starting to look like a semblence of the team that they're supposed to be since the return of ARod. With the impending return of Posada and a healthy Hughes, the eventual transformation of Joba into a starter, and Cano finally putting his eye back on the ball, the Yanks should get back to being a contender.
To suggest that the Yankees have been an "underachieving team for years" suggest you are blinded by your distate for them rather than being objective. Granted, they should be successful every season, and they have been. They have been in the playoffs EVERY one of the past thirteen seasons and have won four of the six World Series they have appeared in. If you want to base your statement on the fact that they haven't reached the World Series in the past four seasons and consider that underachieving, then be my guest. Other than the Red Sox, name one other team that has won the World Series more than once since 2000. During that period, only the Red Sox and Cardinals have been there twice and the Yankees three times. No one else has had multiple trips to the Series.
As far as passing Tampa Bay, check back with me in September. That's why they play 162 games!
<< <i>Rather than understand the Randolph/Mauch comparison as the generalization that is was with regard to the late season collapse of both the '07 Mets and '64 Phillies, you guys need to paint it as some sort of indictment on Mauch.
Sorry, but while Mauch may have been a decent manager, he accomplished very, very little other than longevity in his field. Lest anyone forget his '81 Angels blowing a 2-0 series lead in the ALDS best of five against Milwaukee or the meltdown against the Red Sox in '86. No? Maybe the 23 straight losses in '61 or 20 straight losses in '69? Mauch has the distinction of having been the manager during some of the worst losing streaks and collapses of three different baseball squads over a 25 year period. Coincidence?
Randolph may eventually prove to be just as snake-bitten. Who knows? But he's not the reason sole for the Mets pathetic performance. It's the team that Minaya has assembled. Sadly, Willie has taken the brunt of the blame and his childish whining and complaints of racial bias from the media have only cemented his inevitable demise.
Roster to roster, the Mets are the fourth best team in their division behind Philly, Atlanta, and Florida. Is that Willie's fault? Even Bobby Cox couldn't win with this team! >>
<<< Rather than understand the Randolph/Mauch comparison as the generalization that is was with regard to the late season collapse of both the '07 Mets and '64 Phillies >>>
So let me also clarify...Comparing the manager of a talent laden team like the 2007 Mets and their collapse, with the manager of an overachieving team like the 1964 Phillies and their collapse....that is ludicrous.
Between 1963 and 1966 those Phillies won an average of 86 games.
They also had allstars named, Allen, Bunning, Short, A.Johnson and Callison.
Steve
<< <i><<< Rather than understand the Randolph/Mauch comparison as the generalization that is was with regard to the late season collapse of both the '07 Mets and '64 Phillies >>>
So let me also clarify...Comparing the manager of a talent laden team like the 2007 Mets and their collapse, with the manager of an overachieving team like the 1964 Phillies and their collapse....that is ludicrous. >>
C'mon, are you serious? Overachieving? The Phillies? You're making it sound like Mauch took a rag tag collection of players like the '62 Mets and created a miracle.
Talent laden? The Mets? Wright, Reyes and Beltran were the only two players on that team last season that were above average for their position. And even then, Wright and Reyes weren't even the best at their position in their own division!
It's great to throw it against the wall, but remember, it has to stick, too...
**Editted to add Beltran
Speaking of averages has Howard reached the Mendoza line yet?
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i><<< Rather than understand the Randolph/Mauch comparison as the generalization that is was with regard to the late season collapse of both the '07 Mets and '64 Phillies >>>
So let me also clarify...Comparing the manager of a talent laden team like the 2007 Mets and their collapse, with the manager of an overachieving team like the 1964 Phillies and their collapse....that is ludicrous. >>
C'mon, are you serious? Overachieving? The Phillies? You're making it sound like Mauch took a rag tag collection of players like the '62 Mets and created a miracle.
Talent laden? The Mets? Wright, Reyes and Beltran were the only two players on that team last season that were above average for their position. And even then, Wright and Reyes weren't even the best at their position in their own division!
It's great to throw it against the wall, but remember, it has to stick, too...
**Editted to add Beltran >>
Oh puulease...the Phillies in 1964 had one of those seasons where everything clicked, and they still couldn't win the pennant....that's how much better most of the other teams were. Overall, the Giants, Dodgers, Reds, Braves, Cardinals, and Pirates had better teams than the Phillies. Frankly, this isn't even a debatable point to anyone who knows 1960's Major League Baseball.
As for how much talent the 2007 Mets had - I believe most knowledgeable baseball fans would agree that on paper before the season began, that the Mets were the most talented team in the NL in 2007. However last time I checked, they don't hand out the pennant to teams from how they look on paper - they make the teams play a 162 game schedule to decide which teams get into the playoffs.
The Yankees haven't won a single playoff series in four years despite having by far the largest payroll in baseball, while the Mets did come within one game of getting to the World Series two years ago. My point simply was that if you're a Yankee fan, the last thing you should be doing is taking potshots at the Mets, as you guys have done squat in the postseason since completing the biggest choke job in posteason history back in 2004. Not surpring, though, that a Yankee fan has difficulty understanding that reality...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>The 1964 Phillies were not an overachieving team like you want us to think.
Between 1963 and 1966 those Phillies won an average of 86 games.
They also had allstars named, Allen, Bunning, Short, A.Johnson and Callison.
Steve >>
In 1962 the Mets and Colt 45's became expansion teams, and were basically two pathetic ballclubs for a number of years. From 1962 until those two teams finally got better, the Mets in the late 60's finally got a lot better, all the other 8 teams in the league had inflated win percentages from accumulating "easy" wins against these two teams. Just because the Phillies "Between 1963 and 1966 those Phillies won an average of 86 games" doesn't mean they were better than most of the other teams, which they definitely weren't.
<< <i>To suggest that the Yankees have been an "underachieving team for years" suggest you are blinded by your distate for them rather than being objective.
The Yankees haven't won a single playoff series in four years despite having by far the largest payroll in baseball, while the Mets did come within one game of getting to the World Series two years ago. My point simply was that if you're a Yankee fan, the last thing you should be doing is taking potshots at the Mets, as you guys have done squat in the postseason since completing the biggest choke job in posteason history back in 2004. Not surpring, though, that a Yankee fan has difficulty understanding that reality... >>
Reality? I understand it completely. Can you say Celerino Sanchez? Rich McKinney? Jim Mason? Rusty Torres? Fred Beane? Jake Gibbs? I can and I have. I rooted for the Yankees when they were a shell of a team. Horace Clarke, Roy White, Thurman Munson, Bobby Murcer, Felipe Alou, Ron Blomberg, John Ellis, Jerry Kenney and Gene Michael was a lineup that I had to suffer with.
Obviously, you're a Mets fan. You seem to mask your team's shortcomings by pointing out that another, more successful team isn't as successful as you think they should be. I don't expect the Yankees to win the World Series every season. They are competetive and in the playoffs regularly and as they say about the lottery, "You've gotta be in it to win it."
So, go cry about Beltran striking out against the Cardinals. Complain about all the things the Mets fans use as excuses. I'm a Yankees fan and if they lose, they got beat by a better team that day. It's simple. I don't have to cry about it, make excuses, or find some other song or dance to make myself feel better. It's friggin' baseball. It's not like losing your house or getting terminally ill. It's baseball!
Obviously, you've missed my point--at no point did I ever complain or make excuses for the shortcoming of the Mets. I merely stated, once again, that Yankee fans ought not to be the ones casting stones these days. Simple as that. Not sure what else you were reading into there, but nice try!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
From 1963 thru 1966 the Phillies won 351 games, only the Dodgers. Giants and Cardinals won more.
I lived through 1960's baseball. Between 1963 and 66 they were considered a 1st division club.
The Reds, Cubs, Pirates, Braves, Astro's and Mets all lost more games then the Phillies.
And if you go back to the 62 season it remains the same, funny how all those teams won a pennant and only the phils
Did not? The collapse is the reason. That was their yr. all they had to do was win 1 game?
Steve
<< <i>So, go cry about Beltran striking out against the Cardinals. Complain about all the things the Mets fans use as excuses. I'm a Yankees fan and if they lose, they got beat by a better team that day. It's simple. I don't have to cry about it, make excuses, or find some other song or dance to make myself feel better. It's friggin' baseball. It's not like losing your house or getting terminally ill. It's baseball!
Obviously, you've missed my point--at no point did I ever complain or make excuses for the shortcoming of the Mets. I merely stated, once again, that Yankee fans ought not to be the ones casting stones these days. Simple as that. Not sure what else you were reading into there, but nice try! >>
Stones? What stones am I casting? I've stated facts. I understand that facts are oft times difficult to grasp, but the simple fact is that I hear too many fans saying "What if" and "We were one game away" when, in essence, they ended up with the same result as all but one other team. They didn't win the championship.
I dealt with many a Mets fan growing up when I wore my #15 Yankees jersey. I endured the taunts as Matlack, Seaver, Koosman, Grote, Agee, Jones, Boswell, Garrett and the like won a World Series and appeared in another while my favorite team languished in a state of disarray.
I'm pretty sure it was YOU who taunted ME stating "Have fun passing Tampa Bay" after I mearly stated "I'm going to go watch the Yankees pull their collective heads out of their butts and begin to play some real baseball..." since they've finally gotten their act together after playing like poo the first 7 weeks of the season.
Again, if my stating the facts about the Mets and the "hopeful" strategy that Minaya had coming into this season is badmouthing the Mets or raving about the Yankees, then you may want to go back and revisit some reading comprehension manuals.
As far as Randolph, I find it funny that most Mets fans loved him and were singing his praised until the September swoon last season. Now they act like they were up in arms for hiring from day one.
I will say it again, Minaya is the one who has caused this . . . not Randolph. Minaya's the one who signed a useless Castillo to a four year deal over paid for Beltran and has done NOTHING to build the farm system. Yeah, he got Santana. But that won't do much for you when the team can't score any runs, Reyes plays with no discipline, Beltran and Delgado have no fire, and the middle relievers can't hold a lead. Maybe if he had more players with Ryan Church's heart on the team, he and Willie would have more success...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Forget it, Scott, it's really not that important, at least not to type out as many paragraphs as you did in your last post to try & spin your point. (The schoolyard tauntings you had to endure at the hands of Met fans was a nice touch, though.) Again, my only point, my one and only point, was that Yankee fans haven't had much to crow about these last few seasons when it comes to success in the postseason, so it seemed somewhat disingenuous for a Yankee fan to post on a Mets-Phils thread and pontificate as to why the Mets are struggling. Don't know why that point is difficult for you to comprehend. As for my The TB comment, that was obviously tongue in cheek on my part. Even I think the Yanks will finish ahead of the Rays, man, really!! >>
Fogotten...
<< <i>SteveK I have to disagree with you there.
From 1963 thru 1966 the Phillies won 351 games, only the Dodgers. Giants and Cardinals won more.
I lived through 1960's baseball. Between 1963 and 66 they were considered a 1st division club.
The Reds, Cubs, Pirates, Braves, Astro's and Mets all lost more games then the Phillies.
And if you go back to the 62 season it remains the same, funny how all those teams won a pennant and only the phils
Did not? The collapse is the reason. That was their yr. all they had to do was win 1 game?
Steve >>
<<< I lived through 1960's baseball. Between 1963 and 66 they were considered a 1st division club. >>>
Well then, during the 1960's you must have lived as a hippie in Haight-Ashbury, swallowing LSD sugar cubes and smoking magic mushrooms to believe that the Phillies were considered a 1st division club during any part of the 1960's, with the exception of the 1964 season. I'll let the facts, the standings, speak for themselves.
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1960
Home Away
Pittsburgh 95-59 .617 -- 52-25 43-34
Mil Braves 88-66 .571 7 51-26 37-40
St Louis 86-68 .558 9 51-26 35-42
LA Dodgers 82-72 .532 13 42-35 40-37
San Francisco 79-75 .513 16 45-32 34-43
Cincinnati 67-87 .435 28 37-40 30-47
Chi Cubs 60-94 .390 35 33-44 27-50
Philadelphia 59-95 .383 36 31-46 28-49
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1961
Home Away
Cincinnati 93-61 .604 ---- 47-30 46-31
LA Dodgers 89-65 .578 4.0 45-32 44-33
San Francisco 85-69 .552 8.0 45-32 40-37
Mil Braves 83-71 .539 10.0 45-32 38-39
St Louis 80-74 .519 13.0 48-29 32-45
Pittsburgh 75-79 .487 18.0 38-39 37-40
Chi Cubs 64-90 .416 29.0 40-37 24-53
Philadelphia 47-107 .305 46.0 22-55 25-52
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1962
Home Away
San Francisco 103-62 .624 ---- 61-21 42-41
LA Dodgers 102-63 .618 1.0 54-29 48-34
Cincinnati 98-64 .605 3.5 58-23 40-41
Pittsburgh 93-68 .578 8.0 51-30 42-38
Mil Braves 86-76 .531 15.5 49-32 37-44
St Louis 85-78 .521 17.0 44-37 41-41
Philadelphia 81-80 .503 20.0 46-34 35-46
Hou Colt .45s 64-98 .395 37.5 32-50 32-48
Chi Cubs 59-103 .364 42.5 32-49 27-54
NY Mets 41-120 .255 60.0 22-58 19-62
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1963
Home Away
LA Dodgers 100-63 .613 ---- 50-31 50-32
St Louis 93-69 .574 6.5 53-28 40-41
San Francisco 88-74 .543 11.5 50-31 38-43
Philadelphia 87-75 .537 12.5 45-36 42-39
Cincinnati 86-76 .531 13.5 46-35 40-41
Mil Braves 84-79 .515 16.0 45-37 39-42
Chi Cubs 82-80 .506 17.5 43-38 39-42
Pittsburgh 74-88 .457 25.5 42-39 32-49
Hou Colt .45s 66-96 .407 33.5 44-37 22-59
NY Mets 51-111 .315 48.5 34-47 17-64
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1964
Home Away
St Louis 93-69 .574 -- 48-33 45-36
Cincinnati 92-70 .568 1 47-34 45-36
Philadelphia 92-70 .568 1 46-35 46-35
San Francisco 90-72 .556 3 44-37 46-35
Mil Braves 88-74 .543 5 45-36 43-38
LA Dodgers 80-82 .494 13 41-40 39-42
Pittsburgh 80-82 .494 13 42-39 38-43
Chi Cubs 76-86 .469 17 40-41 36-45
Hou Colt .45s 66-96 .407 27 41-40 25-56
NY Mets 53-109 .327 40 33-48 20-61
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1965
Home Away
LA Dodgers 97-65 .599 ---- 50-31 47-34
San Francisco 95-67 .586 2.0 51-30 44-37
Pittsburgh 90-72 .556 7.0 49-32 41-40
Cincinnati 89-73 .549 8.0 49-32 40-41
Mil Braves 86-76 .531 11.0 44-37 42-39
Philadelphia 85-76 .528 11.5 45-35 40-41
St Louis 80-81 .497 16.5 42-39 38-42
Chi Cubs 72-90 .444 25.0 40-41 32-49
Houston 65-97 .401 32.0 36-45 29-52
NY Mets 50-112 .309 47.0 29-52 21-60
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1966
Home Away
LA Dodgers 95-67 .586 ---- 53-28 42-39
San Francisco 93-68 .578 1.5 47-34 46-34
Pittsburgh 92-70 .568 3.0 46-35 46-35
Philadelphia 87-75 .537 8.0 48-33 39-42
Atlanta 85-77 .525 10.0 43-38 42-39
St Louis 83-79 .512 12.0 43-38 40-41
Cincinnati 76-84 .475 18.0 46-33 30-51
Houston 72-90 .444 23.0 45-36 27-54
NY Mets 66-95 .410 28.5 32-49 34-46
Chi Cubs 59-103 .364 36.0 32-49 27-5
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1967
Home Away
St Louis 101-60 .627 ---- 49-32 52-28
San Francisco 91-71 .562 10.5 51-31 40-40
Chi Cubs 87-74 .540 14.0 49-34 38-40
Cincinnati 87-75 .537 14.5 49-32 38-43
Philadelphia 82-80 .506 19.5 45-35 37-45
Pittsburgh 81-81 .500 20.5 49-32 32-49
Atlanta 77-85 .475 24.5 48-33 29-52
LA Dodgers 73-89 .451 28.5 42-39 31-50
Houston 69-93 .426 32.5 46-35 23-58
NY Mets 61-101 .377 40.5 36-42 25-59
NATIONAL LEAGUE 1968
Home Away
St Louis 97-65 .599 ---- 47-34 50-31
San Francisco 88-74 .543 9.0 42-39 46-35
Chi Cubs 84-78 .519 13.0 47-34 37-44
Cincinnati 83-79 .512 14.0 40-41 43-38
Atlanta 81-81 .500 16.0 41-40 40-41
Pittsburgh 80-82 .494 17.0 40-41 40-41
LA Dodgers 76-86 .469 21.0 41-40 35-46
Philadelphia 76-86 .469 21.0 38-43 38-43
NY Mets 73-89 .451 24.0 32-49 41-40
Houston 72-90 .444 25.0 42-39 30-51
NATIONAL LEAGUE
Eastern Division Home Away Div
NY Mets 100-62 .617 ---- 52-30 48-32 57-33
Chi Cubs 92-70 .568 8.0 49-32 43-38 46-44
Pittsburgh 88-74 .543 12.0 47-34 41-40 49-41
St Louis 87-75 .537 13.0 42-38 45-37 46-44
Philadelphia 63-99 .389 37.0 30-51 33-48 36-54
Montreal 52-110 .321 48.0 24-57 28-53 36-54
Western Division Home Away Div
Atlanta 93-69 .574 ---- 50-31 43-38 58-32
San Francisco 90-72 .556 3.0 52-29 38-43 50-40
Cincinnati 89-73 .549 4.0 50-31 39-42 46-44
LA Dodgers 85-77 .525 8.0 50-31 35-46 46-44
Houston 81-81 .500 12.0 52-29 29-52 38-52
San Diego 52-110 .321 41.0 28-53 24-57 32-58
If a "Gene Mauch" type would have been managing the Phillies during those mid-70's to mid-80's seasons when the Phillies had some of the best talent in MLB, there is no doubt in my mind that the Phillies would have won more than one World Series during that time.
Thanks.
Of the 4 seasons that I mentioned they ended up no worse then 4th place which
in a 10 team league is considered not a second division club, the one year they didn't
they won 85 games. They had as much talent as just about every other 1st division team
As usual we are know going off on tangents.
I suggest you put down the crack pipe, (since you like to make drug analogies)
As for the Cubs they had MORE talent yet lost more games, everyone knows that.
Ever hear of the JUNE SWOON? Banks, Williams, Santo, larry jackson to name a few that played for them.
Geez this is too easy.
Steve
<< <i>First of all i said between 63 and 66 and your post proves me right.
Thanks.
Of the 4 seasons that I mentioned they ended up no worse then 4th place which
in a 10 team league is considered not a second division club, the one year they didn't
they won 85 games. They had as much talent as just about every other 1st division team
As usual we are know going off on tangents.
I suggest you put down the crack pipe, (since you like to make drug analogies)
As for the Cubs they had MORE talent yet lost more games, everyone knows that.
Ever hear of the JUNE SWOON? Banks, Williams, Santo, larry jackson to name a few that played for them.
Geez this is too easy.
Steve >>
<<< Of the 4 seasons that I mentioned they ended up no worse then 4th place >>>
In 1965 the Phillies finished 6th - When you can't even speak factually correct using your own points, it's just too pathetic to continue. You'll have to wait until Axtell comes back to resume your self-humiliating sports arguments...which both of you seem to enjoy doing.
Of the 4 seasons that I mentioned they ended up no worse then 4th place which
in a 10 team league is considered not a second division club, the one year they didn't
they won 85 games.
THE ONE YEAR THEY DIDN'T they won 85 games.
You make it too easy.
Steve
Steve
You know have lost what little credibility you still had with me.
<< <i>What's pathetic is how you pasted half my sentence to try and show me as wrong.
Steve
You know have lost what little credibility you still had with me. >>
Allright...Now I see what you meant, and I didn't intentionally do that...but I don't really give a chit because you still ignore the fact that the win percentages were obviously inflated. Finishing 4th two times and 6th one time even in the years you mentioned, in a league which realistically only had 8 competitive teams, is not considered a "1st division club" by any stretch of the imagination. And of course you fail to include the few years previous and after those years in whch the Phillies were worse, sometimes much worse, so you're basically looking at those 4 years in a vacuum. Now I'm going to go argue with the wall, which makes more sense than arguing with you.
what happened in 1959 or 1969 did not matter.
What mattered was the yr previous to it, and the 2 or 3 after it.
bottom line, they were not some over achieving bunch of clowns that you
tried to make them out to be.
Steve
<< <i>I used those 4 yrs because we were talking about the 64 club!
what happened in 1959 or 1969 did not matter.
What mattered was the yr previous to it, and the 2 or 3 after it.
bottom line, they were not some over achieving bunch of clowns that you
tried to make them out to be.
Steve >>
Jerry must be loving this. Me downgrading the Phillies and you upgrading the Phillies. No more Jerry, no more!!!
Steve
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Keep going SteveK, you're finally making sense!
I think this was a conspiracy between you and WinPitcher to get me to make these anti-60's Phillies posts...I'm demanding a full investigation!