1884 Morgan Cancelled Die Piece?

cmerlo1

I'll start by saying that I know that this thread would be much better with pictures, but I don't own the piece, and it's not for sale...

I was at an out-of-town shop I hadn't been to before, with my friend James. He knew the owner (James was in customer service when ANACS was here in Austin and he knows a lot of dealers). We were talking with the owner and got on the subject of counterfeits. He took out a binder of 2X2's, and explained that this was his collection of fakes he'd picked up over the years, and they weren't for sale. There was a good assortment of mainly fake dollars, including trade, Morgan, and Peace. One coin struck me as odd, though. It was larger than a Morgan dollar, but looked to have been struck by an 'X' cancelled 1884 Morgan dollar die. It was white metal, and the other side was completely blank. What reminded me of this was the pictures of the confederate cent hub trials in another thread (this is similar, except it's from a die, not a hub). The cancellation was a crudely engraved (raised on the coin) 'X' across the design, that looked like it was made by striking the die with a hammer and chisel. The image was the correct size for a Morgan dollar, but since the planchet it was struck on was larger, there was a 1/4" border of unstruck metal around it. The image was clearer than the other coins in the binder, and the date font and lettering looked correct...my impression was that someone had made it using a genuine cancelled Morgan dollar obverse die.

My questions are:

Are there known private strikings made using cancelled Morgan dollar dies? Is there a known cancelled 1884 obverse die known to exist? Lastly, are these collectible (I'll bet they are)?

NumisOxide

Try this link.
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cmerlo1

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Thanks! That looks like what I saw, except that the planchet was larger...might even be from the same die...

DJCoinz

COCollector

Reviving an old thread...

@cmerlo1 said:
...Are there known private strikings made using cancelled Morgan dollar dies? Is there a known cancelled 1884 obverse die known to exist? Lastly, are these collectible (I'll bet they are)?

.
There are now. Produced with vintage 1884 X-cancelled Morgan dollar dies: http://www.dc-coin.com/vintagediestrikes.aspx

Discussion: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13068919/#Comment_13068919

cmerlo1

Wow- a blast from my past!

I not only saw but got to handle a pair of cancelled Carson City Morgan Dollar dies at the Chicago ANA back in August. Another VAM buddy of mine recently acquired a cancelled die as well.

SPalladino

@COCollector said:
Reviving an old thread...

@cmerlo1 said:
...Are there known private strikings made using cancelled Morgan dollar dies? Is there a known cancelled 1884 obverse die known to exist? Lastly, are these collectible (I'll bet they are)?

.
There are now. Produced with vintage 1884 X-cancelled Morgan dollar dies: http://www.dc-coin.com/vintagediestrikes.aspx

Discussion: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13068919/#Comment_13068919

There are two 1884 cancelled CC die strikes that I am aware of:

1) circa late 1990s struck by Don Schmitz, at the time a Nevada State Museum (includes the old CC Mint building) owner/director - on various metals, including 170 on 2oz silver rounds. The minting location was either at the old CC Mint on coin press #1, or at the Nevada City Mint (sources vary on this).
2) 2021 struck by Daniel Carr at the Moonlight Mint - on various metals/planchets, including 269 over-struck on 1878-1921 Morgan dollars.

The cancelled 1884 CC dies used for the Schmitz production and the Carr production are different. Further, the Schmitz production used a cancelled 1878 CC reverse die, while the Carr production used a cancelled CC reverse die from 1879-1893.