POLL: Real or Fake?

JZrarities

Thaler Link

IstilllikeZARcoins

I went for 'possibly fake'. I have no real knowledge of how these coins looked like after they were struck but if you follow the link and look at the reverse, then you will see that there is a piece of metal outside of the border on the periphery which looks like it belongs to those fake chinese coins.

The sword is also sticking right into the border although again I am not sure if that is how these original coins were struck. The wear also looks a little funny to me.

I could be wrong though.

rec78

I voted real. But then i have never seen one of those before. However I reserve the right to be wrong because i have not actually seen the coin in hand. I do not have the book but i think the weight at 28.8 g is about right for Thalers of that era. JMO. Bob

ajaan

My gut says real.

tbirde56

Saxony KM-123, $1600 in F, $3750 in VF.
There are several design differences from the picture in the book though.

worldcoinguy

Probably real. If the 2x2s are legit in the photo, I would think they could contribute to the deep toning. The only thing that bothers me is the fields look like they are too smooth.

The fact that it is an infamous ebay estate auction with a story that is too perfect gives me an uncomfortable feeling, but his other stuff for sale does not scream to be fake.

Its interesting how much the design has in common with a 1658 death taler I have (below).

JoesMaName

Just my thoughts as I've no experience with these...

My gut made me vote: Possibly Fake
To me the design looks too flat. The cloak folds seem little more then gouges as are almost all
details especially when compared the tapering relief seen in the coin posted by worldcoinguy.
The seller has decent feedback but that doesn't mean he knows what he's selling, and he practically
says he doesn't - just an elaborately told story about a 90+ year old widow Blah, blah, bla...

Too risky for me.

SYRACUSIAN

Tough call, what do you think JZ?


I voted I don't know, because just like the seller, I know nothing about them. Assuming that the story about the old couple is real ,they wouldn't have been able to tell if it was genuine or not either, they just took whatever people brought them. The toning looks real, and the fact that the underbidder and several bidders have a high feedback is on the reassuring side.

On the other hand, ajaan's $500 worth gut feeling is scaring me.

JZrarities

I believe the flips are real, but the coin is a very old counterfeit.

It just has the wrong look to me, the flat childish engraved design, and the toning doesn't look right to me either. That color of toning is a big red flag to me...I could be wrong (and someone got a great deal) but I got a bad feeling on that one and didn't bid...

Any opinion of CIVITAS?

CIVITAS

I voted real on this one. While the color is a bit unusual, I have seen it on a fair number of legitimate coins. US seated halves for one. I think it comes from long term storage in close quarters with organics. I think the paper envelopes could certainly do it. Leather is often another contributor to such a color.

Of course without seeing the edge of this coin and being able to weigh it in person, it's hard to say for sure. I guess there's no reason to doubt the seller's listed weight, which would be par for the course for the thaler weight standard. The detail is a little soft, but it looks like a well circulated coin and these broad thalers didn't always start out very well struck. It looks struck rather than cast. There are some elements showing strike doubling. Style is right for 1600s Saxony.

The coin sold for the right price, considering the current state of the dollar and the fact that the bidder was from a country that is currently crazy for coins. This is NOT KM-123 as that is a 5 Ducat issue. This is Davenport 7597; KM 119. These bring about 300 Euro at auction as long as they aren't ex-mount, tooled, etc.

Dawg144

I voted "possibly real". I too don't know very much about these, but it looks pretty good as a thaler.