Do some coins in high grade just plain NOT exist?

braddick

Will we ever see a PCGS MS68 1970-D Kennedy, for example? Has every single coin been checked for high grades?
Are there other coins, in your favorite series, you're likely never to see in certain grades?
There is a Forum Member here looking for new MS67 Clad Ikes and is paying a healthy premium for these coin(s). Is it possible we will NEVER see another 'made'? Are there some coins that have maxed out on super high grades? That's all there is folks, and there ain't no more?
I'm looking forward to your opinion.

pop1

Interesting question, which brings another parallel question. Is all the "hype" not necessarily "hype" at all? But it does look like the older the coins, the more likely a pop1 of ms65 or ms66 will stick, especially if of small mintage, ie some classic silver commems. (ie., pcgs ms66 s-mint cincy)

solid

In the 1938-64 MS Jefferson nickels, there are a slew of coins where the
top grade is MS65FS or MS66FS, along with a few dates where there are no
full-step examples.

Witness the 1960-P MS65FS nickel ending on ebay tonight. The current pop
is 3-0. The current bid is around $1600. My guess is the bid will go
much higher. Is this hype? I don't think so. Prices have been way up on
these coins for the last year or so, resulting in many people searching
literally tons of $2 rolls looking for that $500 or $5000 coin.

The net result is that some mid-grade coins have been made, but very few
high-grade coins. So, to answer your question, I believe there are some
coins that simply do not exist in high grades.

Ken

USPICoinEnthusiast

There are some very, very hard date Jefferson full steppers, but the higher prices are pulling Jefferson nickels out of the woodwork -- witness the 1939-D and 1954-S in 67 full steps that were recently made. One source of good PCGS full steppers are the NGC full stepper crossovers. The NGC coins are very strong on the steps if not always on the grades.

I think you can count on the pops of the full steppers doubling over the next couple of years. Of course, with the considerably much increased interest in these surprisingly-difficult-to-find coins, that may not be enough to slake the passions of all the new Jefferson collectors.

So I think Jeff full-steppers are not only going to become somewhat more plentiful, I think that they'll also continue rising in price. $3,000 to $5,000 is no longer an unusual price for a scarce full-stepper in non-better grade. And I understand that a few full-steppers have actually crossed the wire at $8,000 and up.

The US-Philippines are another series that is extremely difficult to find in top condition. There are many dates there with less than 10 coins graded Unc by NGC/PCGS combined. The king of the series, the Pesos, are notoriously thin on gems. It's almost impossible to find even an MS 64 for any date besides the 1903-S and 1904. For the 1906, the top PCGS grade is MS60! followed by a few AU 58s. In the minor denominations, it's even worse, with many dates not represented by a single PCGS unc slab.

Nonetheless, the coins are remarkably cheap -- if you can find them.

perfectstrike

There's plenty of high grade left in most modern series! Patience is the key. I made a Pop 1 cent last year (1966), and he had a twin. I didn't really expect that from roll stock. I'm hoping for another this year, there's a couple Lincoln years with Pop 0 in MS67RD.

I've barely glanced at the silver and clad in the rest of my mint sets. Don't see why I shouldn't expect some low pops for some of these. I've made a note to check the Kennedy, Ike and SBA issues on my next pass. In a couple years I might even get back to the lowly nickels There's just not enough time.

David

dbldie55

If someone wants more of these made. Just offer some real money! About $100,000 a coin will get some action. You need to make it worthwhile for people to spend time finding the raw coins (which are there for most of these) and sending in perhaps hundreds to get the grade. Also, you need to get more people involved in looking for them.

Just put up the $$$, and the coins will come. If they don't, then they really do not exist. Just don't count on it not existing with a coin minted last week.

cladmaker

If a PCGS MS-68 quality 1970-D Kennedy does exist, it is most
likely currently residing in one 1970 mint set amongst a group
of them still sealed in the original shipment from the mint. This
group would not have been jostled around except when it traveled
through the mail back in 1970. Imagine if it might be a DMPL
example too!

Of course not all the coins have been searched - nowhere close! But with the usual characteristics of particular condition-scarcities
PCGS populations will EDGE UP over time. Clad coins I would like
to see appear are: 1971-74P & 76-P T-1 MS-67 Ike $1's; 1981-S
MS-67 SBA $1; 1968-70D & 1969-S MS-65+FS Jeff 5c; and others.
Of all the mint sets (1968-81) I sort through, looking for the "right" coin, the 1981 mint set has the highest rejection rate
in finding coins suitable for slabbing. A true PCGS MS-67 1981-S
SBA $1 would be a real prize.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Best, Cladmaker's cohort

gmarguli

That 1960 5¢ will likely have a lot more company in the future. ANACS has graded 21 with a 5-step designation. PCGS only requires 5 steps and ANACS is rather strict on giving that designation. It's only a matter of time before people realziae that PCGS only wants 5 steps instead of 6 for the FS designation.

That means there are 21 other coins out there that PCGS will grade FS.

December 2000 ANACS Population Report.
1 in MS63
3 in MS64
17 in MS65

Coin Finder

I have yet to see any Mint State Red Early Large Cents for 1793-1800.
I doubt there will ever be a full original red one.

Tbig

dbldie55

Tbig,
Didn't Jay Parrino have one? The 1793 Wreath in MS68Red. He currently has one in MS67RB on his site.

Coin Finder

Hey DD, I think it is also RB. A set of full R or RB in Mint State will be difficult if not impossible.

Thanks
Tbig

cladmaker

Whether an ANACS or NGC (or whoever)-graded Jeff 5c full steps will
cross-over to a PCGS holder depends on that individual coin. I have
several ANACS designated full steps Jeffs that would NOT cross to PCGS.
Time will tell what other services' full step Jeffersons will make the
grade at PCGS. And I don't think the success rate will be as high as
some people think. Maybe a higher success rate will be achieved by
taking the risk of cracking the coin out of the competing grading
services' holder and submitting the coin "raw." You pays your money
and takes your chances.

Cohort.

cladmaker

Whether an ANACS or NGC (or whoever)-graded Jeff 5c full steps will
cross-over to a PCGS holder depends on that individual coin. I have
several ANACS designated full steps Jeffs that would NOT cross to PCGS.
Time will tell what other services' full step Jeffersons will make the
grade at PCGS. And I don't think the success rate will be as high as
some people think. Maybe a higher success rate will be achieved by
taking the risk of cracking the coin out of the competing grading
services' holder and submitting the coin "raw." You pays your money
and takes your chances.

Cohort.

cladmaker

I don't work with computers enough, so please excuse the duplicate
post of my previous. Thanks, Cohort.

shirohniichan

This is getting off the topic a bit, but there are some problem-free coins that don't seem to exist in less than VF. There are a couple of gold coins I'm looking for that auction catalogs refer to as "mostly encountered in VF and below" that I've only encountered in XF and above. The highest graded for one is MS-62 and the other is around MS-60, and both show up in auction catalogs in AU most of the time (when they show up at all). I don't know if the same AU-55 to 58 coins are making the rounds in different holders or if the 5 or so in that range are showing up separately at the rate of 1 per year.

Anyway, PCGS lists one in VF and none lower. I don't know if this is because owners don't bother to slab lower grade gold coins (even though they list for over $1,000 in F) or if all those below VF that have been submitted had problems precluding them from certification.

This reminds me of Braddick's quest for certain problem-free coins in PO-01. They just may not exist in that low of a grade without past cleaning, gouges, holes, etc.

braddick

Yep. Tough to find and when they ARE located, not expensive. That's the part of the hobby my wife likes best (the 'inexpensive' part).

fantasiize

In the Ike series, I believe it has been over 3 years now since the last highest grades were established in the Ike series. They were the 72D in MS67, 76PT1 in MS66, 76PT2 in MS67 and the 76DT1 in MS67. All other highest grades were established prior to July 1997.

I do not believe that any clad Ikes will establish a new high grade (though the likeliest would be a 74p, 71d or 76dt2). My only likely guess for a new high grade in the Ike series would be a 71s (might pop a MS68, but don't hold your breath). In order for this to happen, it would probably have to be a first strike and one that was immediately taken out of (or never put into) the mint cellophane of the Blue envelope Ikes

So, to answer you question briefly, absolutely, some high grade coins do not exist.