MS 69 State Quarter -- PCGS and "The Wizard of OZ"

eye · January 30, 2002 8:15AM

Let me begin by saying that I think PCGS is the most consistent and best third party grading company in existence today and are a tremendous asset to the collector community which is often not familiar with grading coins. We all know that grading coins is, at least in part, subjective. Did anyone notice that the online PCGS population report for the NEW York P in MS 68 was 44 for over four weeks, but with increases during that time in the number of MS 67s? The day that the MS 69 appeared on the report, the MS 68 population went back to 43 total. My conclusion is that a top end MS 68 became a MS 69. Since dealers and collectors with business licenses can deduct grading fees as a business expense, is it possible that a top MS 68 was sent back in for an upgrade under the $100 dollar line which may have subjectively helped to influence a miminum of two of the three graders toward the MS 69 designation? Is it possible like in Lyman Frank Baum's book, "The Wizard of OZ," where the wizard manipulate events in the Emerald City, that coin grade designation in MS 69 may be, at least in part, done by mirrors behind a curtain in the plastic city? Your comments should be interesting.

wondercoin · January 30, 2002 9:20AM

Eye: I HAVE NOW CONFIRMED BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT THE MS69 NY QUARTER WAS NOT AN UPGRADE COIN. IT WAS GRADED MS69 FROM A FRESHLY SUBMITTED RAW COIN. ANY THEORIES TO THE CONTRARY ARE TOTALLY ERRONEOUS.

One side note though. I find it interesting that there is so much fascination with the possibility of a super grade modern coin getting "made" through upgrade channels. There wasn't this much talk when the King of Siam set shot up in grades!!! There wasn't this much talk when the famous 1913 Liberty nickel shot up in grade!!! This NY state quarter is already "famous"

Wondercoin.

KoinKollector · January 30, 2002 11:10AM

Sure, famous on this little CU Forum.

dbldie55 · January 30, 2002 11:59AM

When did a 1913 Liberty Nickel shoot up in grade? As for the 1804 dollars and coins like the 1913, these would sell for the same outside of plastic (and did). Can the same be said for a New York Quarter?

If so, I have a beautiful example of a New York State Quarter for only $1,000. Any takers? Comes in the original government packaging.

pmh1nic · January 30, 2002 12:16PM

My guess is the vast majority of the market value of the 1913 Liberty Nickel and 1804 Dollars is tied to their historical significants rather than the number on the slab they're in (what dbldie55 was referring to). An additional mark or spot of toning on one of these coins is going to have a minimal affect on the market value. Give or take a minor mark on that state quarter and the market value changes significantly.

I'll take Wondercoin's word that the 69 was the result of a fresh coin being submitted. I am curious as to why the 68 number dropped.

USPICoinEnthusiast · January 31, 2002 2:50AM

What difference does it make whether the coin was an upgrade or a new slab? The reality is that PCGS has slabbed thousands of these quarters and never before put on in an MS 69 holder. I'm sure they didn't put this coin in a 69 holder casually, either.

They're not dummies. They know the significance of the 69 grade. You can be sure that if they put the quarter in a 69 holder they really, really thought it belonged there. If it was an upgrade -- and I believe you, Mr. Wondercoin, that it wasn't -- but if it was, it must have been hard for them to swallow their pride and acknowledge their error on such an important coin.

pmh1nic · February 1, 2002 6:21AM

USPICoinEnthusiast

It matters because if it was a crackout and resubmit it means they either didn't get it right the first time or there has been a minute shift in the grading standards.

eye · February 7, 2002 4:29AM

I believe Wondercoin when he said that the first MS 69 was "fresh." I still do not understand why the pop decreased from 44 to 43 when it appeared. The second the "new" New York MS 69 appeared, the pop went down to 42!!!!!! Someone help me out here with an explaination that makes sense.

Gilbert · February 11, 2002 1:53AM

Correction of typos, updating of "turned-in" certificates and/or a mere coincidence; take your pick, as the folks with the REAL answers don't ever seem to step forth.

Another thought - cert#2007380 (MS66 1880-S) was cracked out, resubmitted (along w/certificate) and reslabbed #03725831 (no change). From Aug01 'til Jan02, and after about 4 different emails and calls, both numbers continued to show up, as though two separate coins. I haven't tried lately, but they still may. In any event, I was told that #2007.... was deleted from the database "internally" and shouldn't still show up, as it was on-line. Obviously, there is more than one database for populations and certificate numbers, and they are not always in sync.

MS 69 State Quarter -- PCGS and &quot;The Wizard of OZ&quot;

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MS 69 State Quarter -- PCGS and "The Wizard of OZ"