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Rare 1918D PR. 25 Phennig destroyed at CICF.

GemWorldCoinsGemWorldCoins Posts: 12
in World & Ancient Coins Forum

I'm a relatively new participant in this message Board. I agree with Andy Lustig's observtions of CICF. There were few great coins on the floor other than in the auctions. Stacks had some wonderful British pieces.

However, it is noteworth that Three Mark (Larry Gray) obtained a coin he had been searching for six years. This proof 1918 D 25 Phennig was a nice coin with just a bit of old cloudy laquer remining on the obverse. Six years of searching resulted in just one known examle in the Bundesbank Museum collection. Even the great Berlin Museum does not have an example.

Three mark decided to place it in acetone and then forgot it and went home early. A frantic call to me three days later and I found much of the laquered area seemed to progress to full blown PVC disease and eaten almost through the obverse.

I've never seen acetone do this to a silver coin. I'm wondering if there was a concentration of PVC in the acetone or on the coin and three days was just too much.

I thought this tragic experiece should be documented.

Steve Huber



image
Steve Huber

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    GemWorldCoinsGemWorldCoins Posts: 12
    image
    Steve Huber
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This proof 1918 D 25 Phennig was a nice coin with just a bit of old cloudy laquer remining on the obverse.

    Acetone won't do that to lacquer. I wonder what was really on the coin?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome to the boards, Steve. That's a shame about the coin image

    I'm not familiar with a substance that would react to acetone in this way. Could it be that laquer was covering this damage and acetone simply revealed it by dissolving the laquer?

    I would shoot it over to NCS. They might be able to do something about it.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    3Mark3Mark Posts: 593 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This proof 1918 D 25 Phennig was a nice coin with just a bit of old cloudy laquer remining on the obverse.

    Acetone won't do that to lacquer. I wonder what was really on the coin? >>



    Andy:

    This picture was after a rinse in Koinsolv and revealed the lacquer. Thanks to Steve (GemWorldCoins) for his hospitality during CICF and the opportunity to room with MrEureka image3Mark
    I'm traveling on memory and running out of fuel.
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    3Mark3Mark Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    To clarify this post, they are just kidding meimage I have a 25 pfennig set in proof and when I started the set, I was told that the 1909J was the hard one. I bought 16 different ones (21 total for a complete set) from a German collector in 2002 and had one that was not in the set from Germany. I bought the 1909J in a Grün auction in 2003 and thought I would have no trouble finding the remaining 3, which I was told were common. Two were easy, but I could not find the 1910D. I have a Künker/Grün catalog from the 90's where the best German Kaiser Reich minors were sold with many of the examples were proofs and I should have noticed that they had a complete run of 25 pfennigs in proof, except for the 1910D. I had just about given up, after finding just one in German Museums (Bundesbank collection) when I was surprised by Dirk Löbbers (who also stays with Steve and my favorite German dealer) with one on this past Tuesday in Chicago. Actually, it is hard for me to believe that it is finished.image3Mark (Larry Gray)
    I'm traveling on memory and running out of fuel.
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    PreussenPreussen Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭
    3Mark: Congrats on completing the set. image

    What's next image -Preussen
    "Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
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    1jester1jester Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    I'm not familiar with a substance that would react to acetone in this way. Could it be that laquer was covering this damage and acetone simply revealed it by dissolving the laquer?
    >>



    This would be my take on the situation; the lacquer (or other substance) might have been covering a deadly disease of some kind.

    imageimageimage

    PS: Welcome to the Darkside, Steve!
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
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    worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - welcome to the boards, and congrats on the set Larry. Its good to hear that CICF was good to you. Another missed year and missed opportunity to meet some of the faces on the forum.


    Steve........now that you are on the forum, are we going to get to see some of your german state beauties?
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    HussuloHussulo Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭
    Welcome to the board Steve and congrats on completing the set 3Mark image

    CoinsGB (Free British coin reference website) | Gold Sovereigns
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    DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    image

    and image
    Becky
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    PreussenPreussen Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Steve........now that you are on the forum, are we going to get to see some of your german state beauties? >>

    image

    Yeah, Steve, please share pics of some of your amazing coins with us image -Preussen
    "Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
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    shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭
    Congrats, 3Mark! That's quite an accomplishment, and I salute your patience.

    Wilkommen, Steve.
    image
    Obscurum per obscurius
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    MadMuffinMadMuffin Posts: 468 ✭
    That is one beautiful coin. Old German proofs are fantastic. I've only got a singe one myself, a 1923 200 mark, but I hope to add many more over the years image

    Marcel
    Ebay user name: 00MadMuffin00
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    UdoUdo Posts: 984 ✭✭
    Actually, it is hard for me to believe that it is finished.

    image It's finished?

    So I don't have to seek for one any longer image Congrats Larry! image



    image Steve
    imageimage
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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To clarify this post, they are just kidding meimage I have a 25 pfennig set in proof and when I started the set, I was told that the 1909J was the hard one. I bought 16 different ones (21 total for a complete set) from a German collector in 2002 and had one that was not in the set from Germany. I bought the 1909J in a Grün auction in 2003 and thought I would have no trouble finding the remaining 3, which I was told were common. Two were easy, but I could not find the 1910D. I have a Künker/Grün catalog from the 90's where the best German Kaiser Reich minors were sold with many of the examples were proofs and I should have noticed that they had a complete run of 25 pfennigs in proof, except for the 1910D. I had just about given up, after finding just one in German Museums (Bundesbank collection) when I was surprised by Dirk Löbbers (who also stays with Steve and my favorite German dealer) with one on this past Tuesday in Chicago. Actually, it is hard for me to believe that it is finished.image3Mark (Larry Gray) >>

    Steve had me going there for awhile, glad all is OK.

    Congratulations again on your accomplishment.

    image
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    wildjagwildjag Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭
    Welcome to the boards Steve. I know you have some fantastic coins and I would love to see them, especially the Hannover ones image
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    ResplandorResplandor Posts: 401 ✭
    Welcome!!!

    ~
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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    congrats

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭
    Huber! You're evil. image

    3Mark, I'll offer $100 for that proof anytime, just let me know. image
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    3Mark3Mark Posts: 593 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Huber! You're evil. image

    3Mark, I'll offer $100 for that proof anytime, just let me know. image >>



    Mac:

    What's your address and it's on the way to youimage We missed you at CICF and I noticed Marcel was panhandling because you were a no showimage3Mark
    I'm traveling on memory and running out of fuel.
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    CoinKingCoinKing Posts: 410 ✭
    For those who don't know him, Steve H. is a great guy first and a consummate collector of high-quality numismatic delicacies second. Welcome to the boards, Steve.

    Larry, congratulations on finishing up your 25 Pfennig set. You have proven that persistence pays off.

    Steve M., you are so bad. And to think I was going to send you that Potsdam Church 5 Mark proof you were looking for. Not after what you just pulled. :-)
    Ron Guth
    President
    PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
    www.CoinFacts.com
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    CoinKingCoinKing Posts: 410 ✭
    Steve M.,

    My bad, I confused you with Steve H. on the practical joke. I'll send you that 5 Mark after all, if I ever find one!
    Ron Guth
    President
    PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
    www.CoinFacts.com
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    PreussenPreussen Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭
    image Hey, I've been good (for a change) image -Preussen
    "Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
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