I need a litte help with British gold - Images added!

MSD61

In the form of 1/2 Sov and sovereigns. What I need to know from the experts is this:

What is the weight and size of a 1913 1/2 sovereign and the weight and size of a sovereign of the same year?

I have a 1913 1/2 sovereign that doesn't look right to me when I compare it to my slabbed 1911. I'd post pictures
of said coin but the inconsistencies I see are way too small to catch on my camera.

Thanks!

7Jaguars

1/2 sov by memory is 3.99 and 1 sov. is 7.96 gm., but have no book available at the moment - these are close however.

MSD61

Well from all the info I have gathered a half sovereign should be about 20mm in diameter and have a weight
of 3.99 grams. This 1913 1/2 sovereign comes in with these stats but still looks funny the details seem off to
me but it's hard to gage because there is quite a bit of wear maybe XF at best.

Maybe I will try some shots with the camera and see if I can pick up what I am seeing that is making me
suspicious.

7Jaguars

How about pics? I think they were striking up a lot of coins in Beirut and environs up into the 1970s and perhaps beyond so this or similar origin may be possible.

Cruzi

1913 Sovs and halves are a lot more gold coloured than 1911, the amount of silver to copper is higher that year.







Have seen a few 1913 Sov forgeries, strange as its a nothing year, but the answer to if its a forgery is quite simply: if it looks wrong, its a forgery.

Keep in mind the design is slightly different on 1/2 sovs, there is far less detail, especially on ones like Sydney or the most notorious of 1/2's the 1918P

MSD61

I have taken some images of this coin please beware that these are very hi-rez images and may take time
for some to see. I have marked the areas on this coin as the areas I find suspect. I can only hope those of you
that know these coins better than I can tell me what I see or if this is just a worn out 1/2 Sov.

Obv:

1. The "O" in George does not look like it was from a die but more a soldered on "O".
2. Some of the dots are inconsistent or missing.
3. The initials "BM" look suspect.

Rev:
Just about everything in the reverse looks strange but where I have the red circles there
are raised, almost clumpy, areas sort of like drippings from hot solder. When I was a teen
I worked for a jeweler and did a lot of gold soldering and this looks just like cold gold
solder balls.

While the coin fits the diameter,weight and is more gold colored than my other 1/2 Sovs I just see things
that make me wonder of this coin is a fake, may have once been jewelry or just a banged up coin as gold
is very soft. Anyway inquiring minds would like other opinions. Thanks!

Cruzi

The common mistake when looking for forgeries is to try and pinpoint differences.

To quote Chard :


<< <i>but most people when presented with a forgery start to examine the coin very closely, looking for individual differences. Although small differences obviously do exist, the sum of all the small differences adds up to a very noticeable effect. >>




Gut feeling is that one is OK, but, I'm not familar with circulation 1/2's

7Jaguars

Yikes, with all due respect to Cruzi this coin's detail just looks too "mushy", esp. Georgie on the rev. The lettering, date, exergue line, details even if poorly struck just do not look right. I wonder if a specific gravity test could be run? I can not quite recall what the figure ought to be but I used this (with help) to distinguish 0.500 silver vs. 0.925.
For some reason, I am wondering if this is as I had suggested above & that this was a creation of our MidEastern friends in the Beirut area - could you review the provenance with us again

Thanks for the pics and look forward to discussions.

PS I would add that the edge detail looks rather bad - how does the reeding look? Also, there appears to be some raised "scratches" at various sites that look to be problems with the production of this piece as they look to be raised rather than scratched into or incuse into the coin's surface.

MacCrimmon

Going on the image alone, my guess is that your 1913 is a counterfeit. Here's the reverse of another half sov up close (albeit Victorian).

MSD61

Hey Mac I have an 1911 1/2 Sov. NGC AU58 that I was using for reference and I see a big difference with that coin
and is the reason I suspect this 1913 to be a being a fake. I didn't buy this coin it was in some other items that had
once belong to my father I just never paid mind to it until I had purchased my 1911 and then started comparing.
Thanks for the input folks it helps me learn.

Cruzi

You guys are more likely to be right.


Rarely look at circulation 1/2 sovs and the only comparison I have is a 1911 proof.

All circ strikes look mushy to me :-)

trozau

That St George cloak is almost touching the coin rim. I tend to agree with the counterfeit group.