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Businessman arrested on charges of selling fake coins

GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,864 ✭✭✭✭✭
Can't wait to see this one develop!!!!!!!!!

Anyone know Mr. Green?????


Susan Jacobson | Sentinel Staff Writer
7:51 PM EDT, April 23, 2008

A Mulberry businessman was arrested Wednesday after an investigation showed that he was making and selling fake antique and rare coins, the Polk County Sheriff's Office said.

Deputy sheriffs said John Green, 47, owner of AAA Coin & Jewelry, was counterfeiting the coins and selling them at what would have been market value for real ones. He was arrested on three counts of cheating (obtaining money by false pretense) and three counts of grand theft.

Green also was arrested in December 2006 on grand theft and forgery-related charges that the Sheriff's Office said stem from similar circumstances. That case is pending.

PR Link

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    CoxeCoxe Posts: 11,139
    Wonder if he was really counterfeiting or was altering coins.
    Select Rarities -- DMPLs and VAMs
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    GATGAT Posts: 3,146
    Why isn't this guy in the slammer? Counterfeiting is a federal rap good for many years up the river in the big house.
    USAF vet 1951-59
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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've never seen him around any of the shows in the central FL area.
    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What is it with Florida and coin scams??
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    BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    Probably someone trying to pay for his 10 spec condos-----------------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here comes the Ranger™, Boo Boo.
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    FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Why isn't this guy in the slammer? Counterfeiting is a federal rap good for many years up the river in the big house. >>



    The Treasury Dept is not really concerned about this...the priorities are the fake $100 supernotes which threaten our economy and national security. The law bans the counterfeiting of CURRENT coins, which
    even though an 1849 gold dollar or a 1796 half cent are still legal tender, it's very unlikely that the charges
    would stick.
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
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    GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,864 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Why isn't this guy in the slammer? Counterfeiting is a federal rap good for many years up the river in the big house. >>



    The Treasury Dept is not really concerned about this...the priorities are the fake $100 supernotes which threaten our economy and national security. The law bans the counterfeiting of CURRENT coins, which
    even though an 1849 gold dollar or a 1796 half cent are still legal tender, it's very unlikely that the charges
    would stick. >>




    Very interesting point...........thanks!!! image
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    GrivGriv Posts: 2,804


    << <i>Can't wait to see this one develop!!!!!!!!!

    Anyone know Mr. Green?????


    Susan Jacobson | Sentinel Staff Writer
    7:51 PM EDT, April 23, 2008

    A Mulberry businessman was arrested Wednesday after an investigation showed that he was making and selling fake antique and rare coins, the Polk County Sheriff's Office said.

    Deputy sheriffs said John Green, 47, owner of AAA Coin & Jewelry, was counterfeiting the coins and selling them at what would have been market value for real ones. He was arrested on three counts of cheating (obtaining money by false pretense) and three counts of grand theft.

    Green also was arrested in December 2006 on grand theft and forgery-related charges that the Sheriff's Office said stem from similar circumstances. That case is pending.

    PR Link >>



    Electric chair!
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    CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I grew up in south FL in the 1970s and practically every other day some precious metals boiler room operation was getting busted.....I do not have documentary evidence but strongly suspect that coin shysterism is proportionally worse in FL than most other states.
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    He is now on facebook running an "offical coin scammer blacklist group" as well as a few other sales (razz) groups. Recently he was selling fake shipwreck coins...he's still scamming, beware!!

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here I was thinking that they had let him stay in business for 16 years while his case was pending... old thread alert!

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,816 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2022 4:35PM

    @Kckiller75 said:
    He is now on facebook running an "offical coin scammer blacklist group" as well as a few other sales (razz) groups. Recently he was selling fake shipwreck coins...he's still scamming, beware!!

    Welcome to the forum even though it’s a 15 year old thread😜

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2022 7:49AM

    ... :neutral:

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    silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭✭✭

    scams are a dime a dozen nowadays one has to be careful of such things and if it sounds too good to be true 99.9% it is

    Coins for sale at link below
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/TyJbuBJf37WZ2KT19

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    HATTRICKHATTRICK Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mrearlygold said:
    << What is it with Florida and coin scams?? >>

    We have an open border in which scumbags navigate their way here, usually from other states. That's what.

    What is it with Florida period ! :#

    " If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2022 8:21AM

    Florida Jeweler Jonathan Green on His Store’s History and the Secrets to Its Success
    February 23, 2012 by DANIEL FORD


    (Photos courtesy of Jonathan Green)

    JCK: Tell me a little bit about your store’s history.

    Jonathan Green: My father, John Green, started the store in Haverhill, Mass., in the late 1970s. It was mainly a coin and collectable store. In the 1980s, he developed the store into a full service jewelry, coin, and collectable/hobby store. During that decade, the store moved around to larger locations and my father set the foundation for our current business model. Around 1992, our family permanently moved to our vacation home in Central Florida. The business came with us. My father wanted a smaller location, but not without offering most of the same services.

    I’ve been around the store for most of my life. I always enjoyed watching my father work. When I was about 10 years old, I would change watch batteries and jump rings and perform other simple repairs. I actually started working on jewelry and doing repairs on gold around 14, and then progressed from there. When I graduated high school in 2008, I began working full time. I got even more involved in everything and expanded my education and skill in the trade, which I hope to be in for the rest of my life.


    Green with his father

    CK: Where is the store located now?

    JG: We moved the store to Plant City, Fla., just a county over from our old location. We also changed the name to AAA Gold & Jewelry. Plant City it isn’t so much a big city compared to most, but I call it a large town.

    Many of the original families still reside here, and have inherited some nice old pocket watches. This is an old railroad town, so the repair and restoration of these old railroad watches became a large part of our business, because we are the only company in the local area that does this form of work.

    This town is a pretty tight-knit group. Everyone knows everyone, and when you start getting a good reputation it spreads quickly, which is good for business and building good relationships.

    JCK: Tell me about some popular items—now and then.

    JG: In the 1990s and early 2000s, coin collecting was pretty popular in our former location. Along with coins, we offered gold and diamond jewelry, silver, watches, as well as repairs on jewelry and watches, and any design and custom work a customer may have wanted.

    The coin portion of our business eventually got phased out completely. Interests and markets were changing, and the precious metals weren’t that high at the time, which in turn was good for our gold jewelry sales. This past year, we reintroduced coins into our business, because of a small calling in our new area.
    CK: What’s the secret to your store’s success?

    JG: Wouldn’t be much of a secret if I told you, now, would it? But in all seriousness, there is no secret. Offer the best services and experience for the customer, at a price that’s fair to both. Most people understand you need to make money to stay open, but in the same respect they don’t want to be taken.

    JCK: What kind of presence do you have on social media?

    JG: We are on Facebook pretty regularly. We are still pretty new to it and we’re learning to harness it more and more as time goes on. I don’t think it’s brought me more sales, but it’s a good way to keep my current customers updated on new products and deals, as well as the occasional promotion.
    The store’s main show room.

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coin Store Owner, And Son Charged With Fraud, Theft

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    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a nice coin shop!

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    slider23slider23 Posts: 638 ✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @HATTRICK said:

    @mrearlygold said:
    << What is it with Florida and coin scams?? >>

    We have an open border in which scumbags navigate their way here, usually from other states. That's what.

    What is it with Florida period ! :#

    I live in Florida and our prosecutors actually put criminals behind bars unlike many blue states. :)

    2008 Mulberry Businessman Accepts Deal
    John Green agreed not to work, live within three-county area for eight years.
    Mulberry businessman John Green agreed Friday that for eight years he won't do business in or live in Polk, Hardee or Highlands counties.

    Over the past few years, Green, owner of AAA Coin and Jewelry, has been arrested
    and charged with concocting a variety of schemes, including pocketing the diamond from an elderly woman's pendant when she wanted to get the piece of jewelry repaired. His most recent arrest in April stemmed from selling fake buffalo nickels and collectors' pennies along with trying to steal hundreds of gallons of diesel fuel.
    As part of a plea deal, Green, 47, must serve eight years of probation — during which he effectively banishes himself from three central Florida counties. Chip Thullbery, a State Attorney's Office spokesman, said the plea agreement is unusual but appropriate given the number and nature of Green's cases.

    Mulberry Public Safety Director Larry Cavallaro said the punishment for Green is just and Mulberry is the winner, without GreenThe city can breathe a little easier knowing Green's criminal activity won't be around town anymore, he said.'And it sends a message that you cannot blatantly commit crimes and not pay for it,' Cavallaro said.
    On several occasions during Friday's hearing, Green would wink or smile at The Ledger's photographer but then quickly turn around before his picture could be taken.

    Green pleaded no contest to petit theft, a misdemeanor, and five felony counts of grand theft. Prosecutors dropped three counts of cheating and a single count of uttering a forgery. John Liguori, a lawyer representing Green, emphasized that his client pleaded no contest to the criminal charges. Liguori said Green took the plea deal because it was in his best interest to get the cases over with and move out of town. 'Sometimes banishment is good,' he said.
    Green was released Friday from the Polk County Jail. He has been given 120 days to move to another residence outside the 10th Judicial Circuit, which encompasses Highlands, Hardee and Polk counties.

    Green is prohibited from being in Mulberry or its suburbs during his probation but has 90 days to travel to a residence on Hickory Street to get some personal items. However, he must travel through the city only on State Road 60 or State Road 37. In the past, Green had been involved in a dispute with Mulberry over the ownership of an alley. The plea agreement instructs Green to issue a quit claim deed without conditions to the city for the alley.
    Another condition of the plea agreement is that Green must 'divest himself of all properties owned' within the circuit during his first two years of probation. He cannot 'conduct or be connected to any business' within the circuit, though he can receive rent through a third party until his properties are sold. He is allowed to deed houses to his son and daughter for use as their residences. Green's son, who was accused of taking part in the fuel-theft scheme, is expected to be entered into a pretrial diversion program. Green's plea agreement states $10,000 held by the Polk County Sheriff's Office will be used toward restitution. Green must come up with an additional $6,500 in restitution.
    Prosecutors have agreed to not file any additional charges against Green for any existing investigations into his activities.

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    NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭

    That's one happy lookin' kid in his mugshot!

    I'll come up with something.
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    jedmjedm Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    I live in Florida and our prosecutors actually put criminals behind bars unlike many blue states. :)

    So the judge tells him to "get outta Dodge" ...

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    Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The penalties do not fit the crime…..10 years in jail would be more like a reasonable penalty plus $150,000

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    Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @HATTRICK said:

    @mrearlygold said:
    << What is it with Florida and coin scams?? >>

    We have an open border in which scumbags navigate their way here, usually from other states. That's what.

    What is it with Florida period ! :#

    I live in Florida and our prosecutors actually put criminals behind bars unlike many blue states. :)

    Florida didn’t do anything….must have had a California judge!

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    << What is it with Florida and coin scams?? >>

    What is it with members who rag on FL?? I used to live in OH.....ever heard of Tom Noe and CoinGate? I used to attend auctions in small towns there, and the number of counterfeit gold coins and altered pieces was amazing. Look around, there are scams, crime, and problems everywhere.

    That is odd, because most of the coin scams of pre modern coins were in the northeast and lately out west and southwest. Somebody just doesn't like Florida.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    jkrkjkrk Posts: 967 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2022 12:45PM

    This thread is going down memory lane for me.

    Haverhill Mass... I was working for a company in the late 70's that did business with a suede tannery in Haverhill, ma

    When I read about Mr Green... I immediately thought about the movie Reservoir Dogs. While no one was named Mr Green

    some aliases used were Mr. Brown, White, Blonde, Blue, Orange, and Pink.

    The movie started with eight guys around a table planning a diamond heist.

    More exotic than the Green's but a fitting name in a movie?

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    WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,038 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "fake buffalo nickels"?

    :)

    https://www.brianrxm.com
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,441 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WillieBoyd2 said:
    "fake buffalo nickels"?

    :)

    Added mintmarks?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    VeepVeep Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭✭

    That’s like yelling at the guy for letting his dog do his business in your yard and not cleaning it up—so next time, the dog goes in your neighbor’s yard.

    "Let me tell ya Bud, you can buy junk anytime!"
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    Seems to me there was a lot more than posted in this thread, I followed this case and researched it fully , This man was a huge property owner in that town, The Town was taking his property by adverse possession. the town sold a deed back in 1978 granting "all land vested in the town name" was sold to a investor and recorded, Later 2003, Green purchased This deed and recorded it 100% legit for a huge sum of money. Including some 60+ acres , Several properties Approx 50. Spend another huge amount of money surveying the property. it seems that over the years, this town had resold several properties after the original deed was recorded. (They No longer owned) And had to repay the second owners plus additional monies. on property they sold and did not own, Additionally one 4 acre tract the town was dumping Raw sewer into a river for years! , The Federal Government Found the town Guilty and fined them some 2.5 million dollars (later Forgiven 2009). And purchased back same property for 200k. The charges on Green were drummed up to stop him from fighting the town as it was in the Courts some 5 years Green was legal owner of the deed. The town had spent some 1.2 million dollars disputing the deed. To No avail. Once Green was found to be the correct owner and all charges were reversed. (2009) A Judge Ruled that the arrests "Were over reaching and beyond the state attorney's authority" To arrest Green and Charge him with some 15 charges. He accepted a deal, He plead not Guilty until it went to a higher court. The outcome was he was absolved of all charges, Hence Not Guilty there was several retractions in local papers on page's and small print. From what i read the Buffalo nickle charge is he was making jewelry out of them. and the US treasury cleared him as they were not Counterfeit nor was he manufacturing them. My take is there is a lot more than meets the eye or that was originally reported, I believe he also received 250K In damages for false arrest. And the town had found out that the town hall and police dept was also his property By the same deed , Not sure what the outcome of that was as it never seem it come up again. Additionally the town "police were disbanded " The local sheriff took over the town police dept. All over this arrest that cost Millions of tax payers dollars. And the town officials that were involved were allowed to retire or resign , Or get fired. currently not a single person involved or Green are seen today.

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2023 8:46AM

    Edit

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    VasantiVasanti Posts: 448 ✭✭✭✭

    Nice first post “morgansareforever”…or I guess I shout day Mr. Green?

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    TomthecoinguyTomthecoinguy Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭

    @Frankcoins said:
    << Why isn't this guy in the slammer? Counterfeiting is a federal rap good for many years up the river in the big house. >>

    The Treasury Dept is not really concerned about this...the priorities are the fake $100 supernotes which threaten our economy and national security. The law bans the counterfeiting of CURRENT coins, which
    even though an 1849 gold dollar or a 1796 half cent are still legal tender, it's very unlikely that the charges
    would stick.

    Please site your sources for "the law bans the counterfeiting of CURRENT Coins" I don't believe there is any such distinction in counterfeiting law. What Green is accused of doing would absolutely be a violation of Federal counterfeiting laws.

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    TomthecoinguyTomthecoinguy Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭

    @GAT said:
    Why isn't this guy in the slammer? Counterfeiting is a federal rap good for many years up the river in the big house.

    Because the justice system is slow. I would be very surprised if he does not end up in a Federal Prison, although the prosecutor might choose straight up fraud charges. It will be up to the prosecutor what he decides to charge him with.

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    The anti-counterfeiting laws passed by Congress state that whoever, with intent to defraud, falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, or alters any obligation or security of the United States can be imprisoned for up to 20 years. There are several federal statutes dealing with the creation, distribution, and use of counterfeit currency, including 18 U.S.C. § 471.
    Federal Crime of Counterfeiting Money 18 U.S.C. § 471

    In order for money to be considered counterfeit, it has to be similar enough to the authentic bill that it would confuse an ordinary person. Additionally, the statute prohibits possession of tools that are used in counterfeiting and it's also illegal to buy, sell, exchange, transfer, receive or deliver counterfeit securities.

    The federal statutes also apply to counterfeiting that occurs outside of the United States. Also, foreign possession of tools for counterfeiting United States securities is illegal, along with foreign transactions in counterfeit securities. Federal law also prohibits counterfeiting obligations and securities that are issued by foreign banks, if it occurred in the United States.

    Counterfeiting typically involves some type of fraud or deceit and a conviction can result in severe penalties, including large fines and federal prison time under the United States Federal Sentencing Guidelines.

    If you are under a federal criminal investigation for money counterfeiting or trafficking in counterfeit goods, you need to speak with a federal criminal defense lawyers as early as possible. You will need a defense lawyer with experience litigating criminal cases in the federal court system.

    To give readers a better understanding of counterfeiting currency laws, our federal criminal defense attorneys are providing a detailed review below.
    Link https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/white-collar-crimes/federal-counterfeiting-money

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    Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title [1] or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
    (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 709; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)
    Link https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/486

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    more then likely paroled by now. who knows :|

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