I don't mean no disrespect but does it bother anyone that the ID's of so many ebay bidders for the ASE 2008/2007 are hidden? I have never seen anything like this before. Also looking at the auctions that are closing soon, when the bidder is not hidden, S***i (343) is usually the high bidder.
Strange. Far be it from me to express any concern with the validity with this auction process (or the values established thereby).
I have the utmost respect for the validity of this auction process, but transparency could be better.
The Golden Rule: Those with the gold make the rules.
Alright guys...I just scratched off my 8 lottery tickets and guess what?
They were all winners!
That's right, Ordered on 4/30 around 7:30PM, shipped 5/5, rec'vd 5/9.
8/8 Reverse of '07.
By the way, I just promptly ordered another 8, because hey, why not? My order says they are IN STOCK once again.
Coulda never done it without the knowledge from this board. You're the best and the brightest in this field.
v
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, when taken out of the boxes, the cheap velour/plastic inserts that hold the coins all were untouched. Believe me the Mint does NOT care if these get out!
<< <i>Alright guys...I just scratched off my 8 lottery tickets and guess what?
They were all winners!
That's right, Ordered on 4/30 around 7:30PM, shipped 5/5, rec'vd 5/9.
8/8 Reverse of '07.
By the way, I just promptly ordered another 8, because hey, why not? My order says they are IN STOCK once again.
Coulda never done it without the knowledge from this board. You're the best and the brightest in this field.
v
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, when taken out of the boxes, the cheap velour/plastic inserts that hold the coins all were untouched. Believe me the Mint does NOT care if these get out! >>
Collectors need to check carefully any slabbed 2008-W silver eagles. The third party grading services are probably handling so many coins that they may make mistakes.
I bought a PCGS 2008-W silver eagle which was mislabelled as having the reverse of 2007. The coin did not have the characteristics of the 2007 reverse. I checked the PCGS website which clearly showed it was a 2008-W. But the slab's label indicated a reverse of 2007.
Heck, I even had to recheck some raw coins. I went through them once, found nothing, then went through them again looking for specks--not checking for variety any more. Then before I boxed them and put them aside, i opened some and found 2 of the variety coin--so then I rechecked all the rest--and those 2 coins were all I found. I got some additional coins in and after i checked for variety only, I placed those up for sale on the bay--without screening--I screen my own coins but i dont screen ones i intend to sell--personal choice. I figurethe mint didnt screen them for me, and I got lucky, so i wont screen them either.
Remember, auctions for today have not been finalized, please disregard today in trend chart. We do know the numbers will probably not be any less than they are right now.
Are you guys following the other thread about shiny verses matte finishes? Some say Die wear, but i just examined some of mine and they are so massivly detailed and shiny that they blow away all of the NGC ER 69s I have in front of me.
<< <i>Are you guys following the other thread about shiny verses matte finishes? Some say Die wear, but i just examined some of mine and they are so massivly detailed and shiny that they blow away all of the NGC ER 69s I have in front of me. >>
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>Are you guys following the other thread about shiny verses matte finishes? Some say Die wear, but i just examined some of mine and they are so massivly detailed and shiny that they blow away all of the NGC ER 69s I have in front of me. >>
yes and i just got some of mine out and looked at them side by side with a loupe and the 07 rev ones do have a bit more detail than the 08 rev that i`m looking at.
Whats going to happen when people realize there are 2 versions of the variety--shiny and matte--I would expect matte to be more commen, as nothing was noted until late of the shiny version. And given a choice, due to the strike alone, i would want a shiny. Prices wont go down on mattes, but they could skyrocket for shiny versions
i just ordered a couple more.. i figure.. what the hey.. either i get 08/07s or i don't.. better odds (i think) than trying to hit a Royal on a Video Poker machine at 40,000 to 1 odds (although i've done it half a dozen times but that's since 1979).. fifty bucks and change isn't all that much of a gamble considering what i can turn it into if i get the 08/07s.. if i don't, c'est la vie, at least i have two more nice coins i can yell at.. and a couple oz. of Silver and potential regular 70s anyway.. no backorder.. "in stock and reserved".. i'm counting on the postings here about small orders yielding better odds of getting them than huge orders to be honest, and accurate.. i mean no one here would LIE would they?.. {{cackle}}.. if the Mint truly IS not sifting through the onesies and twosies and pulling them out if they turn up, then i think that's the way to roll the dice.. and no, i didn't pay for Fedex..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I posted this on the thread related to the shiny/matte coins.
Well, there is THIS theory.
The unused 07 dies were all in a box, both proof and unc dies. One of the three dies used to mint the estimated 47,000 coins was for a PROOF coin... The other two from an 07 unc. Is there a way to tell the difference between a proof and a UNC die? This wouldn't explain why some obv are shiney, not just the rev.
You must be watching too much CSI, SVU, Numb3rs, Murder She Wrote, Matlock, etc...just kidding, because.......IF the 'proolike' look does start showing up uniformly on other coins, I think you cracked the case with that theory.
of the 8 I received in the mail today from the Mint, all were 08/07's, but two jumped out at me. I immediately though these could be 70's due to the difference in strike. Now I'm reading all this talk about shiny vs. matte and the two I pulled out are definitely the "difference" everyone is talking about. By the way, they are gorgeous and shiny on BOTH sides, not just the 07 reverse side.
The "shiny" version is simply a later die state. The satin finish is produced by sandblasting the dies. As more coins are struck, the matte effect of the sandblasting wears away and the die surface becomes more reflective (up to a point).
<< <i>The "shiny" version is simply a later die state. The satin finish is produced by sandblasting the dies. As more coins are struck, the matte effect of the sandblasting wears away and the die surface becomes more reflective (up to a point). >>
I wonder if PCGS or NGC would give a LAST strike for those coins. They are for sure the last strikes of the 07 reverse. I think we might be onto something. Just think, a two coin holder with First Strike/Early Release and Last Strike/Late Release!!!
<< <i>The "shiny" version is simply a later die state >>
Makes sense....also it should follow that 2006 and 2007 W's should show the same matte/shiny versions since the cause would be a consant over the years AND it should also show on the 08/08's. If it does not then we have a discussion. I will check my previous years tomorrow..have to get back to the BoSox game
I know DCarr has much more experience than most on these boards, as a designer and a minter of coins, but if the shiny coins are a later die state, why are they much more clear, sharp, and more detailed than the matte coins? I cannot in my mind see how as the die progressed, the strike got superior, sharper, and more detailed. I have heard of weak strikes, mushy looking coins, overused dies--these things look like different finishes.
I was just noticing that on my shiney 08/07's it is just the obverse that is shiney, reverse is flat matte, but on one of my 08/08's the reverse has the shine, obverse is flat?? I'm going to go take a nap now, kinda tired...let me know what happens.
Hmmmm, I will tell you what, I have about 30 of those matte finished coins, and I have no problem trading anybody here a coin for a coin--you send me the "worn die" version (shiny) and i will send you a "newer die" (matte) version. We are of course talking only 2008 W burnished reverse of 2007 coins--raw for raw
If there is no difference--thats no big deal--right/ If they are worn dies, I should be overwhelmed with trade offers If they just might be something different, I doubt i get any bites.
Im willing to take a chance, and a stand on which version just seems....tighter, sharper, shinier....more ...whats the word...prooflike.
Gut check time--which version would YOU rather have? I know most will want both but if you had a choice and could only collect one of them.....
I posted this one about 30 pages back or so in this thread. Even at a distance under questionable lighting it is very easy to distinguish the shiny reverses from the satin-finish reverses.
I agree that the devices stand out more on the shiny reverses (and obverses), but given the way that the dies are burnished for the satin-like finish it could be that the "worn" dies may also be producing shinier and more detailed strikes due to a polishing effect from the "wear" as the silver planchets impact the dies over and over between "burnishings". Just a thought.
I also have a die-worn Millenium set where the golden dollar looks like a POS due to loss of the satin finish! So who knows? But it is an interesting overservation. More intrigue for this unique modern variety!!
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
OK, I have another theory. These things are being struck on multiple presses. The set-up between presses may not be the same. Maybe the set-up gap between dies is closer on one press or the striking tonnage is greater on one than on another. This would give a stronger strike but could also cause the satin finish on the dies to wear away rather quickly. Just conjecture!
Regards,
John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>I wonder if "The Shiny One's" will spot faster..................
Dan >>
Only time will tell. But I can tell you this I have been collecting them since 1986 and not one of mine has spotted. I can also tell you that not one of mine is in TPG plastic either! Go figure!
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>The "shiny" version is simply a later die state. The satin finish is produced by sandblasting the dies. As more coins are struck, the matte effect of the sandblasting wears away and the die surface becomes more reflective (up to a point). >>
I appreciate your experience and understand that position. However, have you examined any of them? These are not late dies strikes, if anything they are the first strikes. I have one in front of me. Its only on the eagel, its like an experimental reverse proof die. You can see the sand blasting right up to the edge of the wings, on the devices but not on the eagle. The detail is much better and I would even say the relief was greater.
These were taken in the exact same spot under the exact same light.
The 10 I ordered on 4/29 are all 08/08. Have another 10 coming tommorow. So far 5/15 of 07/08 reverse from the mint. 12 in unopened boxes ordered mid April will go to PCGS for First Strike. Hopefully there are some 07/08 reverses in them. I just rechecked the five 08/07 reverses I received last week comparing them to the 08/08's I received today and they all exhibit that proof like quality.
<< <i>The "shiny" version is simply a later die state. The satin finish is produced by sandblasting the dies. As more coins are struck, the matte effect of the sandblasting wears away and the die surface becomes more reflective (up to a point). Daniel Carr >>
I believe Daniel is a qualified expert in the striking of coins, but I do believe he is wrong on this.
As I stated in the other thread: "I'm going with "Unfinished Proof Die" the detail in the flag is much sharper in the top coin than in the bottom coin, it would not be the first time this has happened, in 1999 unfinished proof dies were used on some $5 and $10 uncirculated Gold Eagles. You may have a new variety! "
Either that or maybe they created a new hub, if they did that they may have softened the details due to stress problems with the new dies. It could also be that these were intended for trial runs and not intended to be released, that could also explain the 07 reverse on these coins. In either case I would consider this to be a true variety!
Could these be getting a second strike like they do a proof to raise more detail? I dont know, but from the pictures presented it is clear there is more detail in the "Shiney Eagles"
Have another theory? Make your case instead of just disagreeing tell us how you believe this happened. I truely believe that others have dispelled the "Worn Die Theory" a worn die would have less detail, not more.
My Honest Opinion on this matter.
Tex
On an earlier post in the other thread it was mentioned that the Buffalo Dollar seemed to have different finishes for the uncirculated versions. As was later disclosed by the Mint, the uncirculated Buffalo Dollars were struck at least TWO times and sometimes THREE times with a much greater preasure do get full detail. This was uncommon for uncirculated strikes for Commemorative Dollars.
This could also be the case for these.
I hope these are submitted soon to PCGS. If the persons who have these and would like them submitted and do not have an account with PCGS I will offer to submit these for you without any extra cost. If you are interested send me a PM. (You can look at my Ebay feedback and see that I can be trusted as well as references on this board that I can give you).
Tim Mayberry - Owner - Paris Coins
On BS&T Now: Nothing. Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up! Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Ok, her we go, proof positive of a different hub design on these, this composite picture is taken from the photographes above, both from the 08 reverse. Take a look at the "S" in Silver, you will notice these are two different font designs wonder why no one else spotted this! I will claim this discovery!
On BS&T Now: Nothing. Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up! Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
The lighting appears different. In the top photo, the lighting is from the left, while in the bottom photo, the lighting is on the right. The differing shadows may account for the perceived differences.
As with grading coins, hard to tell from just a picture.
Comments
Have a good one!!!
<< <i>I will trade a raw one for tickets to a Red Sox V/S the Yankees week of the fourth of July. Not in right field.
Have a good one!!! >>
By the 4th the raw ones will be worth a grand.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>I will trade a raw one for tickets to a Red Sox V/S the Yankees week of the fourth of July. Not in right field.
Have a good one!!! >>
By the 4th the raw ones will be worth a grand.
Joe >>
You heard it HERE!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I will trade a raw one for tickets to a Red Sox V/S the Yankees week of the fourth of July. Not in right field.
Have a good one!!! >>
By the 4th the raw ones will be worth a grand.
Joe >>
In my dreams -
item 180241225777
Current bid on NGC MS70 ER - $644 w/2hr to go.
310047298336
Heard a bunch of stuff rattling around in the box. Assume this is not good. Must be searched.
Open the box, visibly see that the lid came off of just one box. I pick one up. Doesn't appear to be tampered with.
REVERSE OF '07!!!
7 more to check...time to crack another beer...be back soon
OH MAN, halfway through...4/4...including 1 potential 70 IMO.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
Strange. Far be it from me to express any concern with the validity with this auction process (or the values established thereby).
I have the utmost respect for the validity of this auction process, but transparency could be better.
They were all winners!
That's right, Ordered on 4/30 around 7:30PM, shipped 5/5, rec'vd 5/9.
8/8 Reverse of '07.
By the way, I just promptly ordered another 8, because hey, why not?
My order says they are IN STOCK once again.
Coulda never done it without the knowledge from this board. You're the best and the brightest in this field.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, when taken out of the boxes, the cheap velour/plastic inserts that hold the coins all were untouched.
Believe me the Mint does NOT care if these get out!
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
<< <i>Alright guys...I just scratched off my 8 lottery tickets and guess what?
They were all winners!
That's right, Ordered on 4/30 around 7:30PM, shipped 5/5, rec'vd 5/9.
8/8 Reverse of '07.
By the way, I just promptly ordered another 8, because hey, why not?
My order says they are IN STOCK once again.
Coulda never done it without the knowledge from this board. You're the best and the brightest in this field.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, when taken out of the boxes, the cheap velour/plastic inserts that hold the coins all were untouched.
Believe me the Mint does NOT care if these get out! >>
How were they delivered ??
Seems to hold true the theory that others have posed that smaller orders are either
packed from a different supply or are scrutinized less.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
I bought a PCGS 2008-W silver eagle which was mislabelled as having the reverse of 2007. The coin did not have the characteristics of the 2007 reverse.
I checked the PCGS website which clearly showed it was a 2008-W. But the slab's label indicated a reverse of 2007.
<< <i>Red sox Yankee tickets are worth a grand! >>
Have a good one!!!!
Remember, auctions for today have not been finalized, please disregard today in trend chart. We do know the numbers will probably not be any less than they are right now.
<< <i>Are you guys following the other thread about shiny verses matte finishes? Some say Die wear, but i just examined some of mine and they are so massivly detailed and shiny that they blow away all of the NGC ER 69s I have in front of me. >>
Linky
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>Are you guys following the other thread about shiny verses matte finishes? Some say Die wear, but i just examined some of mine and they are so massivly detailed and shiny that they blow away all of the NGC ER 69s I have in front of me. >>
yes and i just got some of mine out and looked at them side by side with a loupe and the 07 rev ones do have a bit more detail than the 08 rev that i`m looking at.
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
And OT:
<< <i>better odds (i think) than trying to hit a Royal on a Video Poker machine at 40,000 to 1 odds >>
Bought a few pretty Morgans a couple of years ago when I drew a natural Royal Flush on a Mohegan Sun Caribbean Stud $1 poker machine ($20,000)
Well, there is THIS theory.
The unused 07 dies were all in a box, both proof and unc dies. One of the three dies used to mint the estimated 47,000 coins was for a PROOF coin... The other two from an 07 unc. Is there a way to tell the difference between a proof and a UNC die? This wouldn't explain why some obv are shiney, not just the rev.
The second pic has a matte finish obverse, but the reverese is reflective in nature.
I prefer the matte on both sides.
You must be watching too much CSI, SVU, Numb3rs, Murder She Wrote, Matlock, etc...just kidding, because.......IF the 'proolike' look does start showing up uniformly on other coins, I think you cracked the case with that theory.
Figures....It is one of 4 raw I just put on ebay closing next Friday. Probably a MS70/shiny variety/reverse of 2007
due to the difference in strike. Now I'm reading all this talk about shiny vs. matte and the two I pulled out are definitely the "difference"
everyone is talking about. By the way, they are gorgeous and shiny on BOTH sides, not just the 07 reverse side.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
<< <i>The "shiny" version is simply a later die state. The satin finish is produced by sandblasting the dies. As more coins are struck, the matte effect of the sandblasting wears away and the die surface becomes more reflective (up to a point). >>
I wonder if PCGS or NGC would give a LAST strike for those coins. They are for sure the last strikes of the 07 reverse. I think we might be onto something. Just think, a two coin holder with First Strike/Early Release and Last Strike/Late Release!!!
<< <i>The "shiny" version is simply a later die state >>
Makes sense....also it should follow that 2006 and 2007 W's should show the same matte/shiny versions since the cause would be a consant over the years AND it should also show on the 08/08's. If it does not then we have a discussion. I will check my previous years tomorrow..have to get back to the BoSox game
If there is no difference--thats no big deal--right/
If they are worn dies, I should be overwhelmed with trade offers
If they just might be something different, I doubt i get any bites.
Im willing to take a chance, and a stand on which version just seems....tighter, sharper, shinier....more ...whats the word...prooflike.
Gut check time--which version would YOU rather have? I know most will want both but if you had a choice and could only collect one of them.....
I agree that the devices stand out more on the shiny reverses (and obverses), but given the way that the dies are burnished for the satin-like finish it could be that the "worn" dies may also be producing shinier and more detailed strikes due to a polishing effect from the "wear" as the silver planchets impact the dies over and over between "burnishings". Just a thought.
I also have a die-worn Millenium set where the golden dollar looks like a POS due to loss of the satin finish! So who knows? But it is an interesting overservation. More intrigue for this unique modern variety!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
OK, I have another theory. These things are being struck on multiple presses. The set-up between presses may not be the same. Maybe the set-up gap between dies is closer on one press or the striking tonnage is greater on one than on another. This would give a stronger strike but could also cause the satin finish on the dies to wear away rather quickly. Just conjecture!
Regards,
John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Dan
<< <i>I wonder if "The Shiny One's" will spot faster..................
Dan >>
Only time will tell. But I can tell you this I have been collecting them since 1986 and not one of mine has spotted. I can also tell you that not one of mine is in TPG plastic either! Go figure!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>The "shiny" version is simply a later die state. The satin finish is produced by sandblasting the dies. As more coins are struck, the matte effect of the sandblasting wears away and the die surface becomes more reflective (up to a point). >>
I appreciate your experience and understand that position. However, have you examined any of them? These are not late dies strikes, if anything they are the first strikes. I have one in front of me. Its only on the eagel, its like an experimental reverse proof die. You can see the sand blasting right up to the edge of the wings, on the devices but not on the eagle. The detail is much better and I would even say the relief was greater.
These were taken in the exact same spot under the exact same light.
Reverse Proof
Normal
Box of 20
I ordered 3 on 5/5/08 , will recieve tommorrow or monday..
Order # 28875XXX
Just seen where someone said they are once again in stock ,
So I just ordered 12 more..
Order # 28921XXX
In just 4 days 46,000 orders........................
Dan
-Mike
<< <i>The "shiny" version is simply a later die state. The satin finish is produced by sandblasting the dies. As more coins are struck, the matte effect of the sandblasting wears away and the die surface becomes more reflective (up to a point). Daniel Carr >>
I believe Daniel is a qualified expert in the striking of coins, but I do believe he is wrong on this.
As I stated in the other thread: "I'm going with "Unfinished Proof Die" the detail in the flag is much sharper in the top coin than in the bottom coin, it would not be the first time this has happened, in 1999 unfinished proof dies were used on some $5 and $10 uncirculated Gold Eagles. You may have a new variety! "
Either that or maybe they created a new hub, if they did that they may have softened the details due to stress problems with the new dies. It could also be that these were intended for trial runs and not intended to be released, that could also explain the 07 reverse on these coins. In either case I would consider this to be a true variety!
Could these be getting a second strike like they do a proof to raise more detail? I dont know, but from the pictures presented it is clear there is more detail in the "Shiney Eagles"
Have another theory? Make your case instead of just disagreeing tell us how you believe this happened. I truely believe that others have dispelled the "Worn Die Theory" a worn die would have less detail, not more.
My Honest Opinion on this matter.
Tex
On an earlier post in the other thread it was mentioned that the Buffalo Dollar seemed to have different finishes for the uncirculated versions. As was later disclosed by the Mint, the uncirculated Buffalo Dollars were struck at least TWO times and sometimes THREE times with a much greater preasure do get full detail. This was uncommon for uncirculated strikes for Commemorative Dollars.
This could also be the case for these.
I hope these are submitted soon to PCGS. If the persons who have these and would like them submitted and do not have an account with PCGS I will offer to submit these for you without any extra cost. If you are interested send me a PM. (You can look at my Ebay feedback and see that I can be trusted as well as references on this board that I can give you).
Tim Mayberry - Owner - Paris Coins
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
As with grading coins, hard to tell from just a picture.
-Mike