Pic of 1804 $1 on CSNS journal cover

CaptHenway

Just got my Spring, 2008 "Centinel," and was looking at the great picture of the Mickley Class I 1804 dollar on the cover.
Was wondering if the weak stars on the right, especially star 8, are due to strike or wear?
Appreciate any comments.
TD

1794half1839

Being that the coin was once called XF by those that saw it, it could very well be wear.

Doogy

<< <i>Being that the coin was once called XF by those that saw it, it could very well be wear. >>




probably wear. But it magically healed itself over the years, much like the other 1804 dollars that PCGS and NGC have graded



"One Class I dollar, a PCGS Proof-68 once owned by the Sultan of Muscat (now Oman) and the finest known 1804 specimen (pictured directly above), sold in 1999 to coin dealer David Akers, who reportedly bought it for a private collector. The price was $4.14 million, the second most ever paid for any individual coin through a public auction (the most was for a 1933 Saint-Gaudens twenty dollar gold piece, which sold for $7.59 million in 2002). The same coin had earlier been graded Proof-65 by Q. David Bowers.

Another Class I 1804 dollar, a PCGS Proof-67 once owned by the King of Siam (now Thailand), sold as part of the King of Siam 11-coin set for $1.82 million in 1993, for more than $4 million in 2001, and most recently for $8.5 million in 2005 to Rare Coin Wholesalers. The same coin had previously been graded Proof-65 by both PCGS and Q. David Bowers.

The PCGS Proof-64 Dexter specimen, another Class I dollar, sold for $1.84 million at Stack's 65th anniversary auction in 2000. The same coin had previously been graded Proof-63 by Q. David Bowers.

The Adams-Carter specimen, graded Proof-58 by PCGS, sold in August 2003 for $1.2 million through Bowers and Merena. The same coin sold just two years earlier for $874,000. Reportedly, during the time the Carter family owned the coin, from 1950 to 1984, Amon Carter Jr. occasionally carried it unprotected in his pocket, which caused the wear.

The Adams-Carter coin is currently graded Proof-58 by PCGS, but in the past it was graded Proof-50 by NGC and before that Proof-45 by PCGS. To PCGS's own graders, the coin improved an astonishing 13 points in quality over time. PCGS contended that it graded the coin as it most recently did because previous graders didn't account for its weak strike. But Q. David Bowers, Walter Breen, and Eric P. Newman and Kenneth E. Bressett had all graded it extremely fine as well. A considerably more likely explanation is that this coin is just another example of how the grading "standards" of the grading services are anything but consistent over time and how they treat rare coins or coins with provenance more leniently than other coins.

NGC recently engaged in two similar acts of blatant overgrading. It graded the Berg-Garrett specimen, a Class III 1804 dollar not pictured here, Proof-55. This is a whopping 15 points higher than everyone else had graded it. Q. David Bowers graded it EF-40 in his 1993 book Silver Dollars and Trade Dollars of the United States: A Complete Encyclopedia. Walter Breen graded it EF in his 1988 book Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins. Eric P. Newman and Kenneth E. Bressett graded it extremely fine in their 1962 book The Fantastic 1804 Dollar. When it was last sold, in 1980 as part of the Garrett sale, it was also graded EF-40. Before NGC graded it Proof-55, ANACS had graded it, also EF-40.

Similarly, NGC graded the Mickley-Hawn-Queller Class I dollar (pictured at the top of this page) Proof-62, whereas Eric P. Newman and Kenneth E. Bressett graded it "very nearly uncirculated," Walter Breen "EF-AU, poorly cleaned," and Q. David Bowers Proof-50."

EagleEye

The King of Siam example shows the same lack of definition on the right hand stars. The Mickley piece has some slight wear, but the lack of detail is mostly due to the way the stars were put in the die (not weak strike, IMO)

CaptHenway

thanks, Rick
Tom