St. Gaudens $10 Indian original concept

veryfine

The original St. Gaudens portrait of Liberty for the $10 gold piece was very striking, with a bold Greco-Roman influence.
I understand the lowering of the relief for practical reasons, but why did the portrait change so dramatically to the final, but inferior version made for circulation (1907-1933.) Unfortunately, Liberty was sharpened, with delicate, pointy features and an odd looking overbite. St. Gaudens would have never approved of this compromised $10 coin.
Why couldn't the relief be lowered without completely retooling the likeness of the original profile?
There is a great deal of literature pertaining to the famous $20 gold coin, but the $10 Indian story seems to get a bit lost in history.
I bet RWB could answer this one.

Artist

I believe that the person most responsible for the 'tampering' was U.S. Mint Chief Engraver Charles Barber. To hear Breen tell it, Barber was A.) a curmudgeon, B.) quite contemptuous with regard to outsiders (such as President Roosevelt & St. Gaudens) interjecting themselves at the Mint, and C.) not an especially talented artist. While not a very scientific answer to your question, perhaps such underlying circumstances begin to account for some of the changes you describe.

crispy

Along those lines has anyone read the book Striking Change? The book has to do with the collaboration of Roosevelt and Saint-Gaudens. They did have a section on the $10 Indian. I was perusing a copy at a Barnes & Noble the other day and it looked pretty good. Would have bought it had it not been damaged and the only copy there.

crispy

<< <i>Along those lines has anyone read the book Striking Change? >>



I see a thread has already been generated on the subject: Striking Change

veryfine

<< <i>I believe that the person most responsible for the 'tampering' was U.S. Mint Chief Engraver Charles Barber. To hear Breen tell it, Barber was A.) a curmudgeon, B.) quite contemptuous with regard to outsiders (such as President Roosevelt & St. Gaudens) interjecting themselves at the Mint, and C.) not an especially talented artist. While not a very scientific answer to your question, perhaps such underlying circumstances begin to account for some of the changes you describe. >>


Yes, I thought about the Barber connection. It would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall during those heated arguments, behind the scenes, at the mint.

RWB

veryfine - you asked for a reply...

First, scratch Breen and his inventions and distortions as they relate to the Saint-Gaudens coinage, and most of the 1907-1921 period.

If you want to learn about the Saint-Gaudens gold coinage, pick up a copy of Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908. It is filled with photos, letters, descriptions, and fully referenced to original documents. It also has much more information than the other book – which is more of an overview. (Disclosure: I wrote the former, and provided considerable help to the author with the latter.)

The first two versions of the new 1907 $10 were made from Saint-Gaudens’ high relief models. They differ only in that the 2nd version had a rim cut into the master die by Barber so that the coins would stack and to better protect the portrait. The 1st version (542 pieces less 70 that were later melted) were all struck on a medal press. The 2nd version (31,500 less 31,450 melted) were all struck on a production press.

A third version was used for 1907 production, and this one came from a new low relief model supplied by Saint-Gaudens’ Estate in late August 1907. (Normal rim, no periods on reverse.) Mint engraver Barber did not modify this design; he used it simply to make reductions and dies. For 1908 and later, Barber (and possibly Morgan, too) made incremental modifications to the design to sharpen feathers, stars, etc. Compare a 1907 with a 1910 and you’ll see what I’m referring to.

Re: Charles Barber. He was a very detail oriented person, probably an SOB and a mediocre artist who occasionally found inspiration (such as the PPIE $2.50 obverse). But, he knew how to make good dies to strike late quantities of coin, and he knew the craft of die sinking far better than Saint-Gaudens. Although Barber wasn’t very good at relief reduction on the mint’s new Janvier reducing lathe, Saint-Gaudens (and his assistant Henry Hering) knew nothing about operating it – they left everything to others.

veryfine

Thanks RWB.

I am aware of the third 1907 version. I prefer this coin over the 1908-1933 sharpened style. Of course, the initial high relief models are superior to anything that followed. It would have been nice to see a final portrait that more closely resembled these early models.

RWB

The first pattern $10 pieces - plain edge - look almost blurry due to the lack of detail in the design. The 2nd patters - with irregular edge stars - are a little better as the mint learned more about stiking these. The original plaster models were better, but the mint folks did not have full command of reducing relief while maintaining detail, so the results suffered.

The Renaissance book has photos of the models, patterns, etc.

RWB

veryfine: re finding the Renaissance books.

You don't have your PM enabled, otherwiswe this would be sent that way:

You can buy a copy of Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908, or the other two companion volumes covering 1909-1915 and 1916-1921, from the ANA, Stack’s, Wayne Herndon Rare Coins, Amos Advantage, most book & supply dealers at larger coins shows, Amazon, or Barnes & Noble. The ANA also has copies for loan to members – all you pay is postage. You can also order from the publisher, Seneca Mill Press, PO box 1423, Great Falls VA 22066 but they charge the full $64.95 cover price. (However, I will autograph a copy you buy from any source. I’ll be at the ANA this summer.)

Send me a PM if you have other questions.

RWB

veryfine

Thanks again RWB

wayneherndon

Wizard Coin Supply offers the Burdette Renaissance books for $48.71 each. All three titles are in stock and ready for immediate shipping.

WH