Are Sac Dollar Registry coins in a state of collapse!!!???

eCoinquest · March 28, 2008 11:43AM

Are Sac Dollar Registry coins in a state of collapse!? I sold a 2001 D MS68 Sac Dollar for $725 on Teletrade recently, about $200 under my personal estimate of its price. This evening I sold another 01 D 68 for $470.00 via Ebay.

Whats up with this??? Last year these coins were selling for over 1K.

wondercoin · March 29, 2008 3:39AM

My 2 cents - it has nothing to do with pops rising on the date - in fact, it has never been tougher to make an MS68 01-D IMHO.

It has everything to do with supply and demand - most everyone who wanted one has already bought one. There are some on the market and no strong buyers right now. Hence, the $470 ebay level.

I am a buyer of nice examples at $400-$450 today. I would have no problem putting a rubber band around the coins and holding them for the next 3-5 years. So, as you see, I personally think the coins have hit "rock bottom" with your $470 ebay sale (minus fees about $450 or less). But, that isn't to say the coins will rise back up tomorrow - again, there are very few retail buyers looking for that particular coin today.

Wondercoin

eCoinquest · March 30, 2008 10:48AM

Wondercoin- I agree.
You bring up a very interesting point about retail buyers for the Sacs now.

Aside from a few "large" buyers there seems to be almost no new interest in these coins. I can recall about a year ago helping put together a few new Sac sets for others. Now, aside from some consolidation there doesn't seem to be any action at all.
I wonder if this will change with the beginning of the Sac commem series??

garsmith · March 30, 2008 11:02AM

Wait until May and June when people are trying to get that last minute boost to thier registry sets. Set owners either buy early or wait till just before the cut off date for entering new coins into thier set.

RBinTex · March 30, 2008 11:40AM

Yes. Popflation.

Silverstate · April 4, 2008 5:41AM

New life will probably come after the updating of the sets with the "varieties" added.

The "Cherrios Dollar" will have a home.

Just wait for 2009 with addition of the edge lettering.
Then you will see some action.

RBinTex · April 4, 2008 7:26AM

Perhaps the "wounded eagle" will save the day.

Griv · April 5, 2008 1:40AM

The Sac proofs have certainly had the PR70DCAM pop go up so I would expect some price decline. In the MS grades there continues to be some excitement IMO. I think it would help if the Sac UNC collections identified the Santin Finish differently as the Presidents do so why hunt for a MS68 when you can grab a MS69 SF that fills the Registry? Admittedly I have been hunting for a 2007D MS68 and have gone through around 6,000 coins. A handful of MS67s is all I've found.

eCoinquest · April 5, 2008 11:00AM

The overall MS Sac market state appears to be fine but almost none of the coins, aside from my collection, have been auctioned publicly.
It seems, IMO, that there are only a few who are strong buyers and are holding up the market.

The Business Strikes will probably see a price surge shortly with the arrival of the variety sets, but the basic P and D registry coins I think are going to slide, shortly.
As Wondercoin stated, it may take a few years to get fully up and going again.

Griv, I too was searching for a 68 D and a 69 P. I found an amazing SUPER Quality piece Denver piece. I sent it in and was told that it was an SF. I pulled the coin personally from a mint roll, so I am not sure what happened. If I had sent the whole roll in, maybe there would be a 68 D BS coin. To bad.

Griv · April 6, 2008 1:13AM

I had a 07D 67 grade as a SF and I pulled it out of a Mint bag. I called up PCGS and made them regrade it no charge and it came back non-SF. That really makes me question the validity of some of the high grades out there touted as BS but possibly SF. I've gone though so many rolls and bags of Sacs in the last few years I could draw the coin design with my left hand but where is that MS68???

I would send it back and make them correct the error and then sell me the coin.

Or I could buy that worthless MS68SF Sac for the cost of your grading fee.

wondercoin · April 6, 2008 3:28AM

Griv - The fact is some (repeat "some") lovely quality business strike coins come close to the look of average quality SF coins and it is sometimes very tough to make a judgment call. Of course, the vast majority of SF coins are easily differentiated. I am not upset that PCGS, at this point, is erring on the side of caution and "defaulting" most coins as SF. It prevents very costly errors from getting out into the marketplace and there is an easy mechanism to address the occasional mistake - you just saw that with your coin.

Now, we both know that there are many D mint MS68 Sacs from 2000-2004 especially that do not measure up to the quality of some 2007-D coins that are failing to achieve the MS68 level. Some of these older coins have simply toned (or spotted) in the MS68 holders of course. But, to PCGS' credit they were incredibly "consistent" in 2007 ensuring that -0- of the 07-D Sacs received the MS68 grade. Ditto for MS69 2007-P Sacs.

Wondercoin

Griv · April 6, 2008 5:20AM

Oh I know you're right and I know there were some mixups when the SFs came out which has made PCGS tighten up. I've gone through my last brick and have visited nearly every bank in the city so this is my last submission and I wasn't as impressed by these last ones as I had been for a few others. Not to mention the dang Mint isn't shipping 08s so what am I supposed to do? I guess find some more banks.

garsmith · April 6, 2008 8:40AM

I love my Sacies, but I don't want to over pay for them. Glad to see the prices are coming back to a realistic level.

DIMEMAN · April 13, 2008 1:57AM

Wondercoin hit the nail on the head. Everybody who wants one has one. There is not a collector base for high grade Saqs or any other high grade modern. The Registry collectors here are the only people who want these coins, so they can get there numbers to be number 1! The few people out there (non Registry) who do collect moderns simply go to the bank and look threw some to find a "nice" one or buy a mint set to get one and put them in a Dansco album. They would and I also would consider the $450 that you say is low as MOON money for ANY coin minted in the last say fifty years.

This is NOT a bash. Anyone who wants to collect moderns in super high grades and is willing to pay the big bucks to climb the ladder in the Registry has every right to do so. Just don't expect all the other collectors to agree with you on this.

JMHO

wondercoin · April 13, 2008 3:22AM

"There is not a collector base for high grade Saqs or any other high grade modern"

Dimeman - Take a look at the tremendous amount of registry sets for Sacs and I think you will see just the opposite - that this series is among THE most collected set of coins in all of registry.

One issue that has been lost in the discussion...

The 2001-D Sac was, for most of its life, a $300-$450 coin. I sold dozens and dozens of these coins a few years back in this price range. In fact, IMHO, most collectors who bought one for their set paid well under $500 for the coin. But, about 12-18 months ago, prices exploded on MS Sacs on a number of coins in the series. The 01-D practically doubled in price overnight. Coins traded at around $1000, give or take - until recently. Things softened in many coins series - not just MS Sacs - as collectors became tapped out from $4.00/gallon gas, etc. I am told (I am sure ebay would disagree) coin "traffic" on ebay slowed considerably (a dealer told me this weekend that certain auctions running this month have 5-10 total hits but the same ads might have had 50+ hits a year ago). The 01-D PCGS-MS68 Sac has corrected back to where it had been in price for nearly all of its existence. Is this a "state of collapse"? Well, if it is, it has nothing to do with MS Sacs specifically best I can tell. Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

DIMEMAN · April 13, 2008 6:19AM

Wondercoin - You just made my point. The collector base for the Sacs and most other moderns IS the Registry! There are probably 3 to 4 times as many Saq sets in the Registry as say Barber coins, right. But how many people collect Barbers outside the Registry as compared to Saqs?!

There are thousands and thousands of collectors not in the Registry collecting all the different classic coins in all grades. Where the ONLY market for top grade moderns IS the Registry. You and I both know this is correct.

wondercoin · April 13, 2008 6:53AM

Dimeman - I have no idea how many Sac sets are not registered, but, I would venture to say it is more than unregistered Barber dime sets, which would disprove your point.

Wondercoin

DIMEMAN · April 13, 2008 7:13AM

Wondercoin - You have got to be kidding!! If you actually think more people collect Saqs than Barbers of any denom. you ARE showing just how little you know about coins and coin collecting!

I have been dealing with collectors and dealers since 1960 and they ALL laugh and shake their heads at the prices this modern high grade stuff brings. I have NEVER heard anyone except people here on the forum building these sets that think they are worth anything!

Look at the 2003-P cent in 70 that the owner thinks is worth 15K or MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure it is the only one in 70 THAT WE KNOW OF. How many billions have not been looked at yet. And you know what NO ONE CARES. When you can get a 69 for 100 or a 68 for 25 or hey go to the bank and get a 65 (GEM) for a penny (1 cent). Get real!

wondercoin · April 13, 2008 7:30AM

More people collect Sac $1's than Barber dimes - yep, I think so. You don't. Who cares. It matters not.

As for the 03 Cent - it is now an MS69RD and I believe the owner got every cent of the $15k he thought it was worth (from PCGS) on the buy back. You've been dealing since 1960 - try to keep up with the latest developments so your "facts" remain fresh.

Wondercoin

DIMEMAN · April 13, 2008 8:43AM

Wondercoin - I'm sorry but I refuse to argue about coins with someone who seems to know squat about them! If you actually think more people collect Saqs than Barber dimes.

As far as catching up with the times............I prefer the classics!

After all clad coins are to be spent not collected!

wondercoin · April 13, 2008 9:48AM

"I refuse to argue about coins with someone who seems to know squat about them!"

Whew - I dodged a bullet there!

Wondercoin

pennyannie · April 14, 2008 6:32AM

Those coin shows on TV set those sac sets by the traincar. You got to get in on this today cause we can not hold down this price much longer!! Some will even give you strech pay!! LOL

oreville · April 18, 2008 4:28PM

dimeman:

Believe it or not many, many more people "collect" Sacky dollars than barber dimes!!!!!!!!!!

However, many of the Sacky dollar collectors are not yet serious coin collectors (serious coin collectors in this study was defined as collectors who collect MORE than three coin series).

I assisted on a scientific survey about two years ago to help a College kid with a term paper in scientific sampling.

Now if you ask how many serious coin collectors (collectors of MORE than three coin series) collect barber dimes versus Sacky dollars then I suspect the answer would be very close to equal.

Silverstate · April 24, 2008 7:01AM

2008 sac dollars for sale soon!! We will see If they are dead or not.....

eCoinquest · April 24, 2008 9:14AM

The 2008s won't be dead if I can help it!

Bah1513 · April 24, 2008 11:59PM

I have an Extra 2000-D Millenium Sacagawea PCGS Ms-68 if anyone is intrested?

Silverstate · May 5, 2008 10:52AM

Picked up some VERY cheap PR70dcams.

Coins seem to sell for 50% off price guide.

Time to buy!

eCoinquest · May 5, 2008 10:58AM

Time to buy!

Silverstate, it seems that with the recent HUGE pop jumps most collectors have been scared away.
Personally, I have always stayed away from the proofs and am glad I did.

Anyone remember when the pops for the 2000 S coins were at (30) pices total? Now the pop is around (80) and the prices are about half what they used to be.

Griv · May 5, 2008 11:23AM

<< Time to buy!

Silverstate, it seems that with the recent HUGE pop jumps most collectors have been scared away.
Personally, I have always stayed away from the proofs and am glad I did.

Anyone remember when the pops for the 2000 S coins were at (30) pices total? Now the pop is around (80) and the prices are about half what they used to be. >>

Don't kick sand in my face.

wondercoin · May 9, 2008 10:49AM

I tried another major effort at slabbing the first 07-D Sac. Results in - nothing to show for the effort. I think making an 08-D Sac will be easier - you guys agree?

Wondercoin

Griv · May 9, 2008 1:01PM

Can't hardly be worse.

mas3387 · May 9, 2008 7:18PM

<< I think making an 08-D Sac will be easier - you guys agree? >>

08 D's are a bit better than the 07 D's

I agree better chance at making the 08 D MS68

Silverstate · May 10, 2008 2:11PM

<< 

<< I think making an 08-D Sac will be easier - you guys agree? >>

08 D's are a bit better than the 07 D's

I agree better chance at making the 08 D MS68 >>

I would like one of those !!

mas3387 · May 10, 2008 9:24PM

<< I would like one of those !! >>

You will be the 2nd to know if we make one

ambro51 · May 10, 2008 11:03PM

"""""Look at the 2003-P cent in 70 that the owner thinks is worth 15K or MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure it is the only one in 70 THAT WE KNOW OF. How many billions have not been looked at yet. And you know what NO ONE CARES. When you can get a 69 for 100 or a 68 for 25 or hey go to the bank and get a 65 (GEM) for a penny (1 cent). Get real!"""""

Go ahead Taz, tell him how bloody common MS70RD Lincolns are

mas3387 · May 10, 2008 11:25PM

<< Go ahead Taz, tell him how bloody common MS70RD Lincolns are >>

Unfortunately we have to say that 2003 P MS70 was down graded

But we do have a few coins here that look like 70's !!!

Griv · May 11, 2008 11:37AM

Sacs rule! I don't know what I was thinking by dragging all those darn pennies out to go through. Geez, and now I have a ton of 2008 Sacs (maybe even 2) and I can't get motivated. Besides, I actually have to go to work in the morning for a change.

Why can't my dog learn to grade? It's not like I haven't encouraged her.

thestig · May 11, 2008 4:26PM

Modern crud, no metal value, high mintages I bought one single sac in a ms 68 holder. Now I realize it was the stupidest thing I ever did..

There is nothing that could ever substantiate the series as being rare, or scarce, short term its like baseball cards you buy that year, and sell them that year..

Griv · May 11, 2008 5:16PM

<< Modern crud, no metal value, high mintages I bought one single sac in a ms 68 holder. Now I realize it was the stupidest thing I ever did..

There is nothing that could ever substantiate the series as being rare, or scarce, short term its like baseball cards you buy that year, and sell them that year.. >>

WOW! You seem to know zero about the series. You joined last month and have been full of crap since then. So what ALT are you? If not an ALT you win the butthead of the month, besting out ksteel4head once again

Griv · May 11, 2008 5:20PM

<< Modern crud, no metal value, high mintages I bought one single sac in a ms 68 holder. Now I realize it was the stupidest thing I ever did..

There is nothing that could ever substantiate the series as being rare, or scarce, short term its like baseball cards you buy that year, and sell them that year.. >>

No, actually the stupidest thing you ever did was this post. Actually it's beyond stupid. But aside from that, Congrats! You finally made your life goal.

thestig · May 11, 2008 6:01PM

<< "I refuse to argue about coins with someone who seems to know squat about them!"

Whew - I dodged a bullet there!

Wondercoin >>

Silverstate · May 22, 2008 12:59PM

Where are the 2008 MS68's business Strikes ?

Datentype · May 23, 2008 6:03AM

Jim, they are in my 7 holders currently.
Mark

mas3387 · May 23, 2008 6:25AM

<< Where are the 2008 MS68's business Strikes ? >>

Getting graded as we speak,

Silverstate · May 24, 2008 7:44AM

<< Jim, they are in my 7 holders currently.
Mark

>>

Well Mark,
Get cracking!

Michael is racing you for the win....

Datentype · May 24, 2008 9:44PM

I am non-competative with other modern dealers. I hate the uncertainty in pricing for the run of the mill type coins. 8's are are different. I have an excellent shot at 1 or 2 d's and possibly 1 p

Tvac897 · May 24, 2008 11:05PM

<< My 2 cents - it has nothing to do with pops rising on the date - in fact, it has never been tougher to make an MS68 01-D IMHO.

It has everything to do with supply and demand - most everyone who wanted one has already bought one. There are some on the market and no strong buyers right now. Hence, the $470 ebay level.

I am a buyer of nice examples at $400-$450 today. I would have no problem putting a rubber band around the coins and holding them for the next 3-5 years. So, as you see, I personally think the coins have hit "rock bottom" with your $470 ebay sale (minus fees about $450 or less). But, that isn't to say the coins will rise back up tomorrow - again, there are very few retail buyers looking for that particular coin today.

Wondercoin >>

Great insight, thanks wondercoin.

wondercoin · May 25, 2008 9:41AM

My pleasure TVAC.

And, I also have struck out trying to slab MS68 Sacs this year. As others have mentioned, all I have is a handful of shot MS68's I sold off in MS67 holders. But, the hunt continues.

Wondercoin

Are Sac Dollar Registry coins in a state of collapse!!!???

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