Have the grading services just been lucky that a counterfeit slab pandemic has taken this long to su

Longacre

Let's get one thing straight-- I think this counterfeit slab issue is very serious and should be dealt with swiftly and decisively. If there is a lack of confidence in the slab itself, the consequences will be dire for the entire coin market.

Look at this a different way, I have always been intrigued by how "basic" the slabs seem to be. I am no engineer, but it does not seem that the slabs are that hard to replicate. If the Chinese can possibly swipe high technology innovations, it does not seem beyond reason that they can fashion an injection mold to produce plastic coin slabs.

Does anyone feel as though we (collectively, as collectors, because we are in this fray just as much as PCGS) have been lucky that we've avoided this counterfeit slab pandemic up to now? Should there have been a program every few years to change the slabs to keep the counterfeitors off-balance (similar to the redesign of our currency)? Does anyone know if there is some sort of SuperSlab that has been circulating without anyone's knowledge, similar to the SuperNote? I hope this whole matter gets resolved.

stev32k

I think it is going to become a very serious problem. Even if the TPGs change the slab design there are still hundreds of thousands of older style slabs in the market place. The counterfeiters can just keep improving on older style slabs. The OGHs are very sought after and would be easier to duplicate than some of the newer ones with holograms. Maybe to only solution is a re-certification service that adds a microchip to the slab, but even that could be duplicated over time.

derryb

First effort should be to shut down coin sales from china on ebay.
That would hopefully give TPGs a little more time to develop strategy before fakes find another avenue into the countryi n any kind of quantity. Once they get into the system then all TPG slabs become suspect regardless of source.

Sure drives up the value of the sticker, though. (Until the fake stickers start to appear).

One thing that every member here can do (if they have an ebay account) is to flood ebay with the message: "NO MORE COIN LISTINGS FROM CHINA, IT WILL EVENTUALLY KILL EBAY'S COIN LISTINGS."

zodiac65

No, eBay pushed things over the edge.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the next phase of certification will be a mix of the old and the new. Maybe think about what's been done over the years with stamps and diamonds.

Perhaps we go back to the photo certificate, updated to provide the best attribution possible.
The photo certificate has a microchip.
Another microchip is glued to the edge of the coin.
The coin is placed in a slab for protection.
PCGS generates the random part of the serial #, just like an RSA security fob, and it changes every minute.
Everything must sync up to be authentic...

derryb

Probem is, a buyer has got to know the slab is authentic. Does collectors little good for only PCGS to be able to tell the fakes.

tmcsr69

I seriously doubt if these fake slabs are a new thing. I believe many can be found out there right now. Just like our money-where's there's a will-there's a way. As long as there is a profit to be made-counterfeiter's will be there. Whether the coins are raw or slabbed-it's a buyer's beware market. PCGS will just have to do their best to stay one step ahead by continually improving their slabs and making them increasingly difficult to duplicate. In the meantime the collector's can only use educated caution when purchasing coins.

zodiac65

Probem is, a buyer has got to know the slab is authentic. Does collectors little good for only PCGS to be able to tell the fakes.
Good point.

The collector buys a fob from PCGS that is unique to them, but when the collector's fob is in proximity to a slab, the LED display in the slab will let the collector know if the slab's ID is OK.

Yes, I said it, an LED in the slab. Please add that to my hack predictions!

derryb

<< <i>The collector buys a fob from PCGS that is unique to them, but when the collector's fob is in proximity to a slab, the LED display in the slab will let the collector know if the slab's ID is OK. >>



If dealing over the internet you gotta buy the coin before you can fob it. By then it's usually too late.

zodiac65

If dealing over the internet you gotta buy the coin before you can fob it. By then it's usually too late.
Another great point.

The seller would have to provide a link to the verification service on PCGS's Web site, and part of that link would be to include part of what gets displayed on the slab's LED. You click on the link, provide what's on your fob, and BINGO, good slab ID or not. The ID scheme would be pretty complicated, granted, but I really don't see how anything low-tech will work now that the jig is up!

notlogical

My YN director, who is a world and ancient coin dealer, says he's known about fake slabs for over a year.