Are PCGS and NGC evenly matched in grading accuracy

starsandstripes

I have had good luck with 10 Buffalo nickel regrades from NGC to PCGS
All went from AU58 to AU58 except for 1 which went from AU55 NGC to AU58 PCGS

Are there coin series you collect that do better or worse?

sfs2002usa

I generally prefer MS/PF 70 by PCGS. They do a "tighter" job of the grading.
I do have some very nice mig-grade 66-69 NGCs. All in all it really depends on
the coin and if you can take a close look at it yourself and appreciate its finer
points.

DJCoinz

<< <i>I have had good luck with 10 Buffalo nickel regrades from NGC to PCGS
All went from AU58 to AU58 except for 1 which went from AU55 NGC to AU58 PCGS

Are there coin series you collect that do better or worse? >>

Were they cracked or crossed?

Doogy

in my coin series, PCGS tends to let sliders pass through as low-grade MS, while NGC calls them AU (which is what they are). I prefer the latter, as I agree with 'technical grading' more than 'market grading'. But then again, NGC is considered far and away the leader in grading these types of coins (world coins, which tend to have stricter grading standards than US coins), so i'm not surprised.

With US coins, I like to find attractive Peace dollars when i can find them. Personally, I tend to think that the very early ANACS/ANA slabs that are still floating around are the most strict, followed by PCGS, then NGC, in that order. However, it seems like i've seen a whole slew of PCGS and NGC MS65-66 Peace dollars that are real dogs lately, so i guess like anything else, cherrypicking the right example is key no matter what slab the coin is in.

Doogy

in regards to this topic, I was looking at Tom B.'s (stunning!!) NGC registry type set the other day, and came across a quote he listed on this topic under the heading of his '47-S Washington quarter. It was quite telling of the current state of this sort of thing, and i'll let him expound on it if he would like (i don't want to quote his thoughts without permission).

doh

In my experience NGC is much, much looser than PCGS on Indian Cents. I had a 1908-S NGC 65RB that DNC and an 1869/9 that went from an NGC AU58 to PCGS AU53. I've had a couple NGC Capped Bust Half Dollars and they've crossed, so NGC seems to be pretty good on those IMO.

ziggy29

<< <i>I've had a couple NGC Capped Bust Half Dollars and they've crossed, so NGC seems to be pretty good on those IMO. >>

I tend not to drink Kool-Aid much, but I suspect these weren't AU-58s. In that grade there is often a large difference in standards for CBHs.

doh

One was a 55 that crossed and the other is a 45 that I didn't even try to cross, but is really solid for the grade and a perfect 45 IMO. So, no, they weren't 58s.

starsandstripes

DJCoinz they were all crossed

keets

my impression is that over the past 1-2 years PCGS and NGC have come to the point where they are closer than perhaps at any time since i've been submitting coins. sadly, prices don't bear that out quite yet.

ziggy29

<< <i>my impression is that over the past 1-2 years PCGS and NGC have come to the point where they are closer than perhaps at any time since i've been submitting coins. sadly, prices don't bear that out quite yet. >>

And they probably won't as long as people think they need to cross everything to PCGS which isn't overgraded by someone else.

OKbustchaser

It isn't a qestion of "more or less accurate". The two companies grade to different standards. It comes down to which company's standards more closely match yours.

Russ

They are more evenly matched now than in the past. In fact, I've seen quite a number of recently graded NGC coins that are just flat under-graded. Three of them on my last submission to PCGS upgraded.

Russ, NCNE

BECOKA

In the half eagle arena there is absolutely no comparison. PCGS is on average 1-2 points tighter.

Doogy

<< <i>

<< <i>my impression is that over the past 1-2 years PCGS and NGC have come to the point where they are closer than perhaps at any time since i've been submitting coins. sadly, prices don't bear that out quite yet. >>

And they probably won't as long as people think they need to cross everything to PCGS which isn't overgraded by someone else. >>




or in some cases, the reverse is true. In the Goldberg's upcoming and historic 'Millenia' auction (which is predicted to break world records for a coin auction), ALL of the coins are NGC. Some of them used to be PCGS top pop rarities, but were crossed to NGC to have more market value and be placed with the rest of the rarest coins in the world in the same holders. not speculation, but true; based on the market for these coins, and what Ira Goldberg told me personally.

PerryHall

<< <i>In the half eagle arena there is absolutely no comparison. PCGS is on average 1-2 points tighter. >>



Sounds like PCGS undergrades half eagles.

BECOKA

<< <i>

<< <i>In the half eagle arena there is absolutely no comparison. PCGS is on average 1-2 points tighter. >>



Sounds like PCGS undergrades half eagles. >>



I know you are joking but in actuality if you look at any grading book PCGS is right on. NGC seems to have changed the rules or does not follow any standard I have ever seen for this series.

edited: I suspect this is why the majority of the Classic Head Half Eagles seem to be in NGC holders. It really skews the pricing so that I can't really ever buy in an NGC holder unless it is priced accordingly.

Frankcoins

Each has their own proprietary standards, which differ between series.

Coxe

It's a tough call as to where they are currently on Morgans. I do know I was disappointed recently for two coins that were BB'ed (by PCGS) as whizzed or tooled because die features for the respective VAMs were apparently mistaken for post-Mint monkeying on the coin.

fc

<< <i>In the half eagle arena there is absolutely no comparison. PCGS is on average 1-2 points tighter. >>



i find this to be more true in the AU50 to MS63 range. for some reason
low grades are pretty close as well as higher end. i cannot speak
for the elite high end like MS67.

BECOKA

<< <i>

<< <i>In the half eagle arena there is absolutely no comparison. PCGS is on average 1-2 points tighter. >>



i find this to be more true in the AU50 to MS63 range. for some reason
low grades are pretty close as well as higher end. i cannot speak
for the elite high end like MS67. >>



That is my range so I guess that is true.

ProofRainbowRoosevelt

I recently cracked out 8 NGC proof roosevelts and sent them in for my free submission. Of the 8, 3 crossed, 3 losed a point, and 2 lost two points. Not just from this experience, but experience in general, I've felt that PCGS is more strick when it comes to proof coinage. They are definately harder on the DC, Cameo designations. Can't comment on MS strikes.

Russ

<< <i>They are definately harder on the DC, Cameo designations. >>



Are they?

Order #20144289 / Submission #3681137
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 12254214 84198 1966 5C SMS US MS66CA
2 1 12254215 86846 1966 50C SMS US MS67CA (Was NGC MS66 no cam)
3 1 12254216 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS67CA
4 1 12254217 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS66CA (Was NGC MS66 no cam)
5 1 12254218 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS66CA (Was NGC MS66 no cam)
6 1 12254219 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS65CA
7 1 12254220 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS67CA

Russ, NCNE

ProofRainbowRoosevelt

<< <i>

<< <i>They are definately harder on the DC, Cameo designations. >>



Are they?

Order #20144289 / Submission #3681137
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 12254214 84198 1966 5C SMS US MS66CA
2 1 12254215 86846 1966 50C SMS US MS67CA (Was NGC MS66 no cam)
3 1 12254216 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS67CA
4 1 12254217 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS66CA (Was NGC MS66 no cam)
5 1 12254218 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS66CA (Was NGC MS66 no cam)
6 1 12254219 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS65CA
7 1 12254220 86847 1967 50C SMS US MS67CA

Russ, NCNE >>



I know on proof Roosevelts PCGS is harder. Just look at the pop reports for both companies. 1950-1954, Ngc, as a percentage of coins submitted, is much more forgiving when it comes to DC and Cameo. It tightens up a bit at 1955 and so on, but Ngc has more DC and Cameos per percentage than PCGS.

howards

I don't think that question can be answered!

1. Grading services have different standards.
2. The standards have changed over time (or at least the way the standards have been applied has changed over time).
3. Different series are graded differently by the two services.

These are issues that probably will never go away. The best thing we could hope for as collectors is grading consistency, not accuracy. That is, the same coin submitted to the same service gets the same grade nearly all of the time. Of course, for financial reasons (see: crackout game) this can never happen either.

starsandstripes

don't think that question can be answered!

1. Grading services have different standards.
2. The standards have changed over time (or at least the way the standards have been applied has changed over time).
3. Different series are graded differently by the two services.


Therefore are we to assume this is a Gordian Knot....an unsolvable question or ponderance?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_knotText

JCMhouston

Being relatively new back to serious collecting I asked my self the same question. In truth I do not see any difference overall, there seem to be the same number of overgraded or undergraded coins in both holders, but both services are better graders than I am.

If you go buy whats in the market (or Pop report) for modern stuff you would have to guess that PCGS is looser, there seems to be a dozen PCGS PF69DCAM Ikes for every NGC equivalent you see. Therfore I don't think relying on these figures is meaningful at all.

Rollerman

I've looked at a lot of Morgans and Walkers in NGC and PCGS slabs and as a general rule, the NGC's seem a bit weak for the grade and the PCGS coins are strong for the grade. Exceptions? Sure, lot's of them. But as a general rule, that's my observations. You always need to buy the coin and not the....slab....Okay, we've beat that one to death....but only because it's so true!
Pete

Cratylus

Yes: they both consistently grade in an inconsistent manner.

NHSBaseball

I think PCGS is much stricter in the AU grades, at least with bust coinage. They are much more reluctant to give out 55's and 58's than NGC in this series.

Jcarney

My Franklin set is all gem NGC. Not only do I think all of them would cross, but I'd bet a few would upgrade at PCGS. Especially a few that are graded MS65, I'm sure would FBL at PCGS.