1971 OPC Thurman Munson PSA 8-Final Bid $2011.88 !!!! WOWSER!!!
KalineFan
Posts: 868
I guess it just goes to show how truly rare the OPC stuff is, not to mention...how popular!
Tony
KalineFan
Tony
KalineFan
0
Comments
I had this on my watched items on ebay.
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
Steve
Loves me some shiny!
This card is 50 times tougher to find in OPC than Topps-There is NO comparison there
I am afraid (IMHO
Comparing it to a 71 Topps version is like comparing it to a (_______________),
well, you can fill in the blank! LOL!
Seriously though, Watch these on ebay next time ANY come up for bidding.
You will see they mostly come about 10/90 or 95/5 or 99/1 centered.
I just looked at the POPS on-line
-------------------6---------7-------8--------9--------Total ALL GRADES
Topps-----------199-----242-----86-------3--------778
OPC--------------23---------6------3--------0---------44
The pops bear out that actually it is 100's of times scarcer! So, I disagree
that the TOPPS pulled the value up!
Tony
KalineFan
<< <i>But did you all realize how tough this card is to find centered in a 1971 OPC?
This card is 50 times tougher to find in OPC than Topps-There is NO comparison there
I am afraid (IMHO
Comparing it to a 71 Topps version is like comparing it to a (_______________),
well, you can fill in the blank! LOL!
Seriously though, Watch these on ebay next time ANY come up for bidding.
You will see they mostly come about 10/90 or 95/5 or 99/1 centered.
I just looked at the POPS on-line
-------------------6---------7-------8--------9--------Total ALL GRADES
Topps-----------199-----242-----86-------3--------778
OPC--------------23---------6------3--------0---------44
The pops bear out that actually it is 100's of times scarcer! So, I disagree
that the TOPPS pulled the value up!
Tony
KalineFan >>
I won't mess with your math, but it's actually about 30x scarcer in a PSA 8 than the Topps counterpart. The ratios aren't that far off, though with regard to equal scarcity within the issue.
The Topps in PSA 8 runs at about 11% of all subs while the OPC in PSA 8 runs at about 7%. The math would suggest that you should expect about a 40-50% premium on the OPC versus the Topps. Given that Munson is a Yankee, is highly collected and that the Pop total is so low, it's not too startling to see the premium escalate to 70% for a card that via the image provided, presents very well for the grade.
Whoops, forgot to add that:
788 divided by 44 = 17.68 times scarcer
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
And if a Topps went for $2000, the OPC would go for $3000+!
I think the fact remains a TOPPS would NOT go that high of a price range in same grade. In fact, the
last two just traded at almost $1300 on ebay just a few days ago. I don't think the OPC has anything
to do with its Topps counterpart. For 1971, those are two completely separate animals.
I'd tell you this, if a 1971 Topps Al Kaline in PSA 9 came up for auction, it would bring in excess of
$1500. But, if a 1971 OPC Al Kaline in PSA 9 came up for auction, you could NEVER outbid me!
If you had someone lay down a 1971 Topps and a 1971 OPC Thurman Munson in PSA 8 in front of
you and said, "...your choice---$1250", which one would YOU take?
Tony
KalineFan
<< <i>envoy98, if that were the case, then there would be nothing graded higher than a (5) in an OPC!
And if a Topps went for $2000, the OPC would go for $3000+!
I think the fact remains a TOPPS would NOT go that high of a price range in same grade. In fact, the
last two just traded at almost $1300 on ebay just a few days ago. I don't think the OPC has anything
to do with its Topps counterpart. For 1971, those are two completely separate animals.
I'd tell you this, if a 1971 Topps Al Kaline in PSA 9 came up for auction, it would bring in excess of
$1500. But, if a 1971 OPC Al Kaline in PSA 9 came up for auction, you could NEVER outbid me!
If you had someone lay down a 1971 Topps and a 1971 OPC Thurman Munson in PSA 8 in front of
you and said, "...your choice---$1250", which one would YOU take?
Tony
KalineFan >>
Tony:
I don't think anyone will suggest that OPC is not printed in more limited quantities than Topps. However, there is a much larger collecting base for Topps than OPC, hence the less than relative pricing differentials.
Assuming that there was equal demand for the OPC as the Topps, you would see a lot more OPC product ending up in the grading room and you would see the population report increase accordingly.
OPC stuff certainly isn't what I'd call "rare," but it can be difficult to locate in high grade from that era. Visit any major show north of the border and you're bound to find quite a few complete sets from '65 on up in varying grades.
(This is back in the late 70's), and I can assure you....you won't find "QUANTITIES" of choice NM and better
cards.
And I TOTALLY disagree with your point about "..if the OPC cards were more popular, you would see more
in the grading room.....".
The reason more don't get graded is for the simple fact there are not mega-hoards of MINT OPC just laying
around like TOPPS. They were produced in FAR less quantities than Topps and most anything previous to 1975 is
cut horribly, centered badly, poor cardboard.....I could go on and on about it.
I have been studying this stuff since the early 70's and the last thing I am gonna say on this subject is
that OPC is still (IMHO!) many, many times scarcer than TOPPS!
Also, I will give you a little hint about OPC Baseball future......It will be coming to the SMR very soon.
Many of the OPC collectors are getting together making pricing lists very much like you see the Topps
lists in the SMR. So far we have 1965, 1969, 1971 and 1972 covered. If any of you care to participate
that have a good working knowledge of pricing and would like to do an article about a particular year,
please contact myself or Joe Orlando. We are all hoping that by Mid-Summer some pricing structures
will be in place. We are looking for 1966,1967,1968, 1970, and 1973-1977 expertise.
In any case, thanks for listening.
T
KalineFan
One of the high bidders was "texascollectibles". He has the current 71 OPC set on the registry
<< <i>I used to live in the Detroit area years ago and went across the border to Windsor, Ontario MANY MANY times
(This is back in the late 70's), and I can assure you....you won't find "QUANTITIES" of choice NM and better
cards.
And I TOTALLY disagree with your point about "..if the OPC cards were more popular, you would see more
in the grading room.....".
The reason more don't get graded is for the simple fact there are not mega-hoards of MINT OPC just laying
around like TOPPS. They were produced in FAR less quantities than Topps and most anything previous to 1975 is
cut horribly, centered badly, poor cardboard.....I could go on and on about it.
I have been studying this stuff since the early 70's and the last thing I am gonna say on this subject is
that OPC is still (IMHO!) many, many times scarcer than TOPPS!
Also, I will give you a little hint about OPC Baseball future......It will be coming to the SMR very soon.
Many of the OPC collectors are getting together making pricing lists very much like you see the Topps
lists in the SMR. So far we have 1965, 1969, 1971 and 1972 covered. If any of you care to participate
that have a good working knowledge of pricing and would like to do an article about a particular year,
please contact myself or Joe Orlando. We are all hoping that by Mid-Summer some pricing structures
will be in place. We are looking for 1966,1967,1968, 1970, and 1973-1977 expertise.
In any case, thanks for listening.
T
KalineFan >>
Tony:
I'm not trying to argue with you with regard to the difficulty of finding nice OPC product. Is it scarcer than the parallel Topps products? Absoultely. That's a given. Is it 100 times scarcer? I'd suggest that it is not.
There are several years that are absolute pains in the posterior, and even the 1980 issue, with a shortened print run due to the strike, has a few pieces that garner significant premiums over their Topps counterparts in raw condition. I think the drawback to some collectors that know about the product is the absence of some of the key rookies when OPC ran the shorter sets and the overproduction of the late '80s and intoduction of the Premier line that left a sour taste in the mouths of many.
I will stand by the fact that the collecting base for OPC products is much smaller than the mainstream Topps products and many of the average or general interest collectors have little idea of the product. With that being said, if there was more interest and the popularity were greater, I am confident that the population numbers would increase as more product surfaced and made it into the grading room. Am I suggesting that OPC will rival Topps in shear submission numbers? Not in the least. But I think you would see a greater increase in the volume of OPC as compared to Topps based upon the current submission ratios.
I will also suggest that OPC is akin to some of the parallel football test issues over the past few decades. There is a small and devout core of OPC collectors and similar to the 1977 Topps Mexican Football (one of the scarcest football issues of all time) and the 1987 Topps UK Football collectors, they are in tune to the tougher cards in the issue and tend to network accordingly amongst themselves. Speaking of the Mexican Football, once people saw some of the realized prices for the tougher cards, even in VG-EX to EX condition, there was an influx of grading done on the issue. Does that mean that it isn't scarce? Absolutely not, but some holding small lots (typically from a few packs bought out of curiosity) saw an opportunity to maximize their intial purchase and out themselves of something they had little interest in. I suggest that the same will be true of the OPC products as higher realized prices occur as many of these auction prices will be completely unexpected to those that only have a passing knowledge of the product.
If the Topps version was 200.00 in 8 the OPC would have been 600.00 and so on.
Envoy can corrrect me if I am wrong.
And yes for the same price I'd take the OPC version.
Steve
<< <i>Tony all Envoy was saying is that 2/3 of the price was simply because it was a 71 Munson, or at least that is what I thought he was saying. We actually were in agreement with you.
If the Topps version was 200.00 in 8 the OPC would have been 600.00 and so on.
Steve >>
C'mon folks... Let's work on the math!!!
Sorry to be so retentive, but this thread is beginning to toss numbers around a little too haphazzardly.
The fact remains (my math skills notwithstanding) that IMO 2/3 of the value of that card
was built in simply by the fact that it is a 71. It goes w/o saying that an OPC example of certain issues is much scarcer
then its Topps counterpart, that was usually negated simply by the amount of collectors of such examples
were also as scarce or scarcer.
Steve
was auctioned? No, I don't think so, anyway, thus the reason the 71 fetched as much as it did is because the 71 regular version sells for so much.
And in my example above (since corrected) I stated that 2/3 of the value was in it being a 71. Which of course is just my opinion.
Steve
<< <i>Tony all Envoy was saying is that 2/3 of the price was simply because it was a 71 Munson, or at least that is what I thought he was saying. We actually were in agreement with you.
If the Topps version was 200.00 in 8 the OPC would have been 600.00 and so on.
Envoy can corrrect me if I am wrong.
And yes for the same price I'd take the OPC version.
Steve >>
That is exactly what I was trying to say. Er, what I thought I said. It's what I meant anyway.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
link to ebay auction
<< <i>Whoa! Look at this ebay auction for a Blyleven rookie.
link to ebay auction >>
I think that's a $500 card in topps in psa 8, those opc cards are tuff!
to 1973 Topps Munson.
Here is a SIGNIFICANT difference in quality. The 1973 OPC Munson is so blatantly miscut, that even finding one
that is in the neighborhood of 70/30 is a miracle! Ryan, Rose, Bench and some others just don't come centered.
And, overall, 1973 is actually not that difficult to find--interestingly, some of the high numbers are abundant
(IN AN OPC WAY!).
1972 OPC is a whole different story and I think BAKKA could tell you they are not that tough until you get up
into the higher numbers.
I will give you that there are not as many OPC collectors (FOR THE MOMENT!) as Topps, but, overall from 1965-1974
and even 1976, they are definitely not as easy to come by that are centered nicely and I think that is what the
OPC collector likes--THE CHALLENGE. What is the challenge on say a Mantle Rookie card (Other than price,
obviously) to find a (7) or even an (8). For the right price you can buy em! But, with OPC, price is secondary
as you simply CAN't find the cards!
Tony
(Changing my name to OPCFAN :-) )
not sure I was comparing 73 Topps to 73 OPC but was making the statement
that the 72 and 73 OPC would not garner as much dough as the 71 OPC had.
I think that is what I was thinking at the time anyway.
Steve
Steve
OPC Baseball isn't even close! There may be a few groups here and there, but, other than stuff from
1972, 1978 and from about 1983 on, you would be hard pressed to make me believe there are
"hoards" of OPC baseball lying around. The very first thing you have to realize is that the stuff in
Canada did get even remotely close to the amount of cards printed that did in the U.S.
There have been a few hoards of OPC Hockey found, but, that is because it was printed much more
so in quantity than baseball, simply because Hockey is the #1 sport in Canada.
I would like to hear what other people think about this!
ADD---> I would love for someone like Jason Chartrand to get on here and tells us his opinion on
this very subject! Actually, we could probably ask Fritsch cards as well as Baseball Card Exchange.