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1904-S Barber Half - the rest of the story
![Mowgli](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/authoricons/barbericon.jpg)
I hope you find this as interesting as I did. The 1904-S half (I think it was an AU) that was sold on eBay at the end of last year for a little over $6000 was wholesaled at the Pheonix ANA in March for $8000 and later sold to a collector for $8500 at the same show.
If you do not have one, this is discouraging. If you already have one, you gotta feel pretty good.
If you do not have one, this is discouraging. If you already have one, you gotta feel pretty good.
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
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Comments
roadrunner
I remember that 04-S very well. Everyone thought the $6K+ was excessive at that time;
I'm looking at another 1904-S which will be at Heritage's Central States Sale next month,
but this one is a PCGS AU 58. Last year an NGC 58 sold for approx. $ 8650. I expect the
PCGS coin will go for $11,500 w/ buyers fees.
Although, I'm hoping it sells for alot more - as I already have a PCGS 58.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>The price guides are woefully behind many Barber Halves in collector grades. >>
But it's a good thing when you find dealers who rely on the Greysheet when pricing them
<< <i>But it's a good thing when you find dealers who rely on the Greysheet when pricing them >>
Yes it is! But they are getting few and far between....the secret's out I think.
96-o.......15
93-s.......15
98-o.......15
02-s.......14
07-s.......13
03-s.......13
96-s.......13
13-p.......13
09-s.......12
13-s.......12
95-s.......12
10-p.......11
95-o.......11
05-p.......11
97-o.......11
11-s........8
04-o........8
01-o........7
05-o........7
I will stand corrected on latest pop #'s but there is a story here.
I dont buy the arguement that no one would take the time and effort to slab an 11-s, as an example, so the numbers are somehow skewed. I think this is very representative of true numbers by this point.
What does it mean? A) there are sleepers of real comparitive value in the series and
Dennis - your 1905-O - which you listed for sale is a very special coin - and BTW - DOH -
if I were you - I'd snap that coin up in a heartbeat. I mentioned before that the 05-O was
the last coin I located in my better set in AU condition - I bought a MS 64 as a "filler" until
I located one in AU 58 from Gary Hultman.
Yes, there still are some sleepers in the half series. Look at the POP of the 1901-O
in AU 58, its a POP 5. I was pleased to locate a nice NGC 61 at HLRC - and crossed
it to PCGS as an AU 58 - as the coin had some rub on the high point of the cheek.
The 1904-O in AU 58 [ my EX: NGC 58 crossed grade for grade ] is also a POP 5.
The 1904-S POP's now are as high as they are because big money was chasing them.
When I bought Peter Shireman's PCGS AU 55 - it was a POP - 1 ; no higher AU's had
been graded at that time. I have since upgraded my example with another AU 58.
The 1904-S, on Heritage's Central State sale next month, is also a PCGS 58.
I'd love to examine that coin - which has alot of iridescent toning - which seemed
to have been a problem for Heritage's photographer to capture correctly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Dogwood, while I do not disagree with your conclusion that there are other coins than the 1904-S which seem to be rarer - I have 14 of the 20 coins you listed in AU and only two of them were bought in slabs. I hope I am not the only one who buys raw Barbers but I bought 4 out of 5 of the rarity 5 coins that I own, raw (and no not from eBay or Teletrade). It might not change your point but it is possible that there are more nice coins out there than represented by the TPGs.
Mowgli, yes, I buy most of my coins raw, as well, then send them in to PCGS from time to time. There are many among us who prefer the look of a raw set in a Dansco. I love that and have one each of the Barber Quarters and the Halves in semi progress, so not every coin can be accounted for per your point. But side by side, I'll bet there are no less surviving 04-s's than 04-o's and the price for the former in VF, XF and AU is becoming tenfold higher than that of the latter. It's just wierd.
96-O
05-O
<< <i>93-S
96-O
05-O >>
I agree - but I also need to add the 95-S , 01-O & 02-s in VF-XF45.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>93-S
96-O
05-O >>
No 97-S?
all coins mentioned - in VF/XF - are tough coins - and yes, the 97-S is a tough one too.
the 04-O deserves honorable mention too. I could certainly use one in XF 45.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
92-O
92-S
93-O
93-S
94
95-S
96-O
96-S
97-O
97-S
98-O
00-O
01-O
01-S
03
04-O
04-S
05-O
07-S
In other words, a VF-XF set is a true challenge for the dedicated collector. The amount of money you have to spend is virtually irrelevant with this series. What you need more than money is PATIENCE.
I remember seeing a really nicely toned PCGS F12 on Ebay right when the auction started with a BIN of $135.00 a few years back. I had a lapse of sanity for about five minutes and didn't think I wanted it. Changed my mind a few minutes later and it was gone. I snoozed and lost big time.
The grade you NEVER see in the 1904-S is an old school VF30-35, with full feather detail and a solid full LIBERTY...but graded correctly as a VF30-35.
The 1904-S has lost its luster for me. I loved it when only a select few knew how scarce it was and you could pay right at the retail levels in any circulated grade XF40 and under, and that was only about 7-8 years back.
For scarcity to price you will get much more for your money with the:
94
95-S
98-O
00-O
01-O
02-S
03
04-O
05-O
and even the supposedly lowly 1908 is a killer find in original VF30 to 40 as most price it as a common date, of which it definitely is not.
If I had my choice between a totally original XF45 1901-O or the 04-S, prices being equal, I would take the 01-O hands down.
I paid $750.00 for this 04-S
and $450.00 for this one. Karma paid me back for missing that PCGS F12
Tyler
Cratylus - your list of 20 hard to find VF-XF halves seems to be the same for nice AUs as well. I have ten coins left to complete my set and eight (8) of them are on your list.
I have been collecting Barbers for about 17 months so my opinion could be wrong - it seems like the 04-S halves shot up with that one NGC VF-35 coin that someone bought for $500 a year or so ago. I was offered the same coin at the end of last year for $1550 and a couple of months later the exact same coin was at JJ for $3295 and it is still there. People tend to use this as a yardstick for other VFs when it is truly over-priced. The same thing happened to me when buying a nice NGC AU-50 04-S at the FUN show this year. The one that went for $6113 on eBay just before the show was now the standard by which other AU were sold. I am positive that if that coin had not gone for $6K+ I would have saved a lot of money on the coin I bought.
<< <i>The one that went for $6113 on eBay just before the show was now the standard by which other AU were sold. I am positive that if that coin had not gone for $6K+ I would have saved a lot of money on the coin I bought >>
Of course you would have saved money. But eBay is a very good yardstick for values of anything. eBay sale prices are the actual prices people are willing to pay...it's not like a dealer who charging what he thinks a coin is worth (i.e. JJ's 04-S at $3295). You paid pretty much actual value for your 04-S. Chances are you could put it on eBay and get your money back if not a bit more.
The 1904-s is way overpriced in every circulated grade. I do not know about UNCs because I do not collect them.
The rumor is done. People are "buying the news" right now. The facts are out there, and the experience of those who do this every day should count for something. If I had an 04-s in XF to AU right now, I would have an extremely hard time keeping it, unless it was a part of my permanent set.
Much like tombr, arco and others, I have been beating the drum on the 01-O and 02-S for years. And, I don't really know why, because it only costs me money.
But, the deveil's advocate can kill any argument rooted in fact, numbers, experience, or any other metric you would like to use, because coins sell in a market. In the end, coins change hands at rates governed by supply and demand. If there are (15) 04-Ss that (30) people want, and (10) 02-Ss that (5) people want, the market will price the 04-S higher. I would also include a statement about rational participants in a market, but...
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/collectors-showcase/world-coins/one-coin-per-year-1600-2017/2422
No one listed the 05-P as being difficult.
As for time, I just completed the set in PCGS XF45. I don't have my notes in front of me as I am out of town however it took me in excess of 7-years to put this set togther in this grade. This was not a money issue but lack of available coins. I bought PCGS, crossed over NGC, ANACS, SEGS, bought raw, horse traded with many of you, scoured Ebay and every other online coin store almost daily, attended numerous major shows and put bounties out there for coins I needed. Crazy it took over 7-years. Everyone can rest assured that these will get tucked away in the safety deposit box for many, many, many years to come.
Looking for Denmark 1874 20-Kroner. Please offer.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/collectors-showcase/world-coins/one-coin-per-year-1600-2017/2422
<< <i>But eBay is a very good yardstick for values of anything. eBay sale prices are the actual prices people are willing to pay...it's not like a dealer who charging what he thinks a coin is worth >>
I disagree with this statement as many time people get caught up in the auction and spend way more than a coin is worth.Just because two people want a certain coin no matter what and get into a bidding war the out come is not allways what the coin is worth.
<< <i>I disagree with this statement as many time people get caught up in the auction and spend way more than a coin is worth.Just because two people want a certain coin no matter what and get into a bidding war the out come is not allways what the coin is worth. >>
Actually, what someone is willing to pay, regardless of getting caught up in the heat of the moment is the exact definition of "worth." I will agree that many times people pay more than I think a coin is worth, but just because I think a coin is worth X doesn't mean it's really worth X. If someone forks over the cash without a gun to their head, then that's what it's worth.
Congrats to USCGCraig on getting it done.
Beautiful pair of 04-s Halves Tyler. Interesting consistancy of the reverse soft strike at the upper right shield. The 45 I just sold had the same thing. I spot a diagnostic if these things rocket much higher and start getting faked.
What a great series to collect
<< <i>As for time, I just completed the set in PCGS XF45. I don't have my notes in front of me as I am out of town however it took me in excess of 7-years to put this set togther in this grade. This was not a money issue but lack of available coins. I bought PCGS, crossed over NGC, ANACS, SEGS, bought raw, horse traded with many of you, scoured Ebay and every other online coin store almost daily, attended numerous major shows and put bounties out there for coins I needed. Crazy it took over 7-years. Everyone can rest assured that these will get tucked away in the safety deposit box for many, many, many years to come. >>
Congratulations Craig! You've worked long and hard on your collection and glad to see that 05-P finally made it! Your zeal and enthusiasm in collecting Barber halves has inspired many...I just happen to be one of them...my collection thanks you but my pocketbook doesn't!
Tyler, very nice 04-S's...very difficult to find nice coins like that that have "the look".
<< <i>Laibstain's PCGS XF-45 for $3500 sure seems like a better deal that $8500 for an AU-50. >>
I'd rather have the 04-S in a grade 5 points lower and use the extra $5,000.00 to buy more Barber halves.
Connor Numismatics Website
The 1904-s has achieved this loft grade for 13 coins (some resubmits?....some now X'd over?...possibly)
1897-s, 1900-o and 1908-s have only two coins apiece in AU58, at NGC.
Stop The Madness!!!!!!!
$900 for a Fine! That's some dough
Edited to add: This VG-10 sold for 1/10 what the Fine went for. I agree, stop the madness!
<< <i>Talking about the 04-S, anyone notice the one on Ebay in PCGS F12? Anyone think it will sell at that high of a price? Looks like it's pushing the market to me, but they don't come up for sale every day so we'll see... >>
Some crazy person just paid $900 for that coin. A PCGS VG10 sold for less than $100 last week. Wow!
<< <i>I agree, stop the madness! >>
That's why I've been been buying up all the decent middle and higher circ grade barber halves at ~Bid that I can lay my hands one.....'thar's potential in this here series!'.....I only wish I'd started years ago.
630 for a nice raw fine 15 this past Sunday.
Those were 2 nice examples.