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Congratulations Supercoin! $4,000.00 price tag on high grade Sacawagea!
braddick
Posts: 23,107 ✭✭✭✭✭
Congratulations on reaching the $4,000.00 pricetag for this MS69 Sacawagea Goodacre dollar. Personally I think it'll be a ten thousand dollar coin in five years (and will remain a POP 01 coin!), but it's good to see there were 54 bids to confirm this coin's importance.
peacockcoins
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I prefer to think of it as being 80% correct in my pricing vs. open market value -- and one bidder shy of 100% correct. Not bad for uncharted waters.
Can I tell you where you went wrong with that ebay offering-that photo was just too nice
At least Tad offered the coin publicly at $4700. He didn't have any takers so he autioned if off publicly with a scan of the coin. Can't get any more open and honest than that. Now everyone knows what the only one in that grade sold for and what the coin looks like. Great job Tad. Not a bad return of your investment considering you made the coin. By the way, you better make some low Pop Ikes and SBAs to sell if your kid wants to go to Harvard, Princeton or Yale.
Ah well, I'll make up the 20% hit on the college fund in penny stocks. If that doesn't work, anybody want to buy a kid cheap?
I copied this out of the thread on the NY-P MS69 quarter thread. Tad wrote this but this is my sentiment also:
"If I get an offer I am happy with, I will let that person know that we have a deal on the coin ... (snip) ... I will not counter-offer anyone.
You're asking people to bid blind on what I presume is a five-figure coin?? They take all the risk of overbidding, and you have no commitment to deliver even if they are the highest of the bids? I can think of a few other reasons why you might do this too, but they're also pretty cynical.
As far as the chicken part, c'mon, all this stuff about not being able to disclose anything, or even, as you mentioned in another thread, post a scan (horrors!) without permission from the soon-to-be new owner? Well, as of yesterday you were the sole owner, and could do whatever you like, right? What's to hide?
So I gotta stick with my chicken statement too, sorry. "
Why is it that you fight so hard to protect the identity of some of your bidders and the condition of the coin (no scan) but other bidders are exposed freely when it is convenient for you? You just mentioned in one of your posts above: "I am sorry we could not close a deal on the NY quarter though" Until then, no one knew I bid on that quarter. You have even mentioned my bidding and buying prices in the past yet you so staunchly defend the same rights for others? Seems to me that the standards change when it is convenient for you.
Tbig
Vest pocket dealer with much to learn.
What's the point?
All advertising (a top coin) does here, is attract those who will make low bids, and keeps those who would make higher bids, scared that their "numbers" will be made public.
Dennis. I didn't see anything wrong with the way the qtr. was handled as compared to the Sac. One seller got his price, and the other took a 20% drop, due, in my opinion, to his ADVERTISING of the price.
If you want to compare directly: Tad is happy, because he sold his coin in a way that made everyone here happy. Mitch sold his consignor's coin in a way that made the seller and buyer happy. Everyone here SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT, unless, of course, they still haven't rid their system of all their sour grapes.
Tbig
I do want to truly thank braddick, however, for starting this thread and it's inevitable rsults. In fact, let's see, where is my 1979 MS67 SBA want list... ah, yes, let me just put his name down there right below Little Cindy Lu Who*, that will do nicely.
* Obscure children's book reference, probably misspelled.
1. You have set the record at $4000 for the most a Sac Dollar has ever realized, best that I know.
2. That price on a Sac Dollar nearly reached the highest levels an SBA ever fetched and not too far off from Ike Dollars either!!
3. You did it in "open" manner such that the entire numismatic community witnessed the incredible demand for your coin and modern dollar coins in general.
Great job on the sale!!
This thread took the course of a few family get-togethers I've been part off, but guaranteed will end well, just like the family meals always do
Wondercoin.
I would, and have, marketed similar coins in the past in the same manner. I have also sold special coins in eBay auctions, and in a "silent auction" format on my web site. I would anticipate selling future coins in one of those three ways.
I have never sold a coin in the way that state quarter was sold, and don't plan to.
There is a key difference in all of the sale methods I mentioned compared to the way that quarter was sold. Before asking a buyer to spend any time, or to put his money on the line, I committed to sell the coin under well-defined rules. Either at my asking price, or the high bid. The buyer is in control.
That's a very important difference to me. I would not personally buy a coin sold like that quarter was, so I certainly wouldn't ask my customers to buy one from me in that fashion.
You describe that difference however you like -- Dennis has some choice words about it, and you and Mitch have some choice words to explain his feelings about it -- but outside the rhetoric the difference remains.
Anyway... I don't think I have anything meaningful to add on the matter. Mitch and I have both presented our viewpoints on it (and other recent topics), and the bottom line is we just view some things very differently. Clearly we're not going to convince each other of our "rightness".
The reader can make that judgement, or more likely, decide whether they give a rat's ass.
"Before asking a buyer to spend any time, or to put his money on the line, I committed to sell the coin under well-defined rules."
I think the rules for both sales were spelled out. One with an "asking price".
The other: "One offer, one time".
That's what I got. (Isn't the latter similar to a silent, web site, auction?)
I'm sure that, in both cases, if offers were sufficient, "rules" were specific.
Silly offers don't require a response within any "rules". (IMHO)
In my silent auctions you could change your bid at will until the end of the auction, but yes, you're correct, effectively you only got one shot at it. And, similarly, you don't know what others are bidding.
But again the key difference remains: If you were the high bidder, you got the coin, end of story.
I didn't reserve the right to say something like "Thanks for your time and offers, it was a great help for me in determining the market value of the coin. In particular, Mr. X, Y, and Z all bid similar amounts, so I know there's good support for the coin at that level. So I think I'll just hang onto it for a while and see if one of those guys decides to pony up a bit more, my downside is minimal."
See what I mean? You're asking buyers to put up without putting up yourself.
Ok, now I'm really done, unless somebody new wants a clarification. We both know you and I aren't convincing each other either.
--------
Separate aside:
The reason I ran silent auctions on my site, rather than eBay-style proxy bidding, was because I was running them myself, and protecting the anonymity of bidders.
So if I took proxy bids and the high-bidder ended up winning near their maximum, they could easily form the impression that I was shilling up the bid anonymously. Would you trust a dealer to keep your proxy secret from himself?
The only reason I ran auctions at all was an attempt to resolve which customer got in-demand coins.
They weren't terribly popular, and based on feedback from some of my best customers, I scrapped them altogether and recently I have sold only fixed-price and eBay.
A coin with a potential population of 1,000+ sold for $4,000 and it is called cheap!
Unless some numbers have changed from when this was first announced, even a beginning Statistic student would come up with this value for a potential population, I am sure this is probably high, but not a pop 1 or any thing close. If anyone wants a college freshman statistics lesson, please let me know.
Mitch, since you will name who offered a bid on the coin, who bought it and what did it bring? (who made it too?)
But to defend Mitch ( I love working both sides ) The key thing in working a deal is to speak last, so if you can ask for offers first, more power to you
Nothing against you Tad, I commend you in your sell, some great foresight!
Edited to add: Damn, another foot of snow and lows well below zero. I will have to spend time at home.
Tad
Do you think you could have gotten more for your coin on a different venue?
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
"One seller got his price, and the other took a 20% drop, due, in my opinion, to his ADVERTISING of the price."
I think your logic is a little skewed. We do know Tad began with a specific price in mind and changed the price after the initial offering at $4,700 didn't generate enough interest. My guess is the initial price wasn't really some fixed number but was tossed out as a trial balloon and adjusted based on reaction to the initial price offered. He eventually got his price (what he felt was fair compensation for the coin).
Now we don't know what the seller of the quarter's price was and from what was said by Wondercoin (if I get a price I'm happy with) leads me to believe that he had a price range in mind. I know a little about the mental dynamics of selling an items and how the numbers can change depending on activity and the type of bids that are being received. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a price in mind and when he received a bid that was in his judgement close enough to it he sold the coin. We can't know this since that price was never publicized. Who knows what the seller of the quarter was HOPING to realize and whether he got 80% of that price. The bottom line is he got a price he was satisfied with.
Not announcing what you feel is a fair price doesn't necessarily prevent you from being low-balled. Some might even suggests it invites low-balling.
Both sellers got their price. They both sold their coins and have stated that they are happy with the sale. Tad put out his asking price and the reasons he thought it was worth the asking price. Wondercoin was quick to stepped in to try and knock it down. Then Wondercoin offers a coin without giving any information of his accessment of it's market value. Why? He mentioned some reasons but my guess is along with the reasons stated he didn't want someone doing to him what he was quick to do to Tad. He can dish it out but he's reluctant to take it.
Supercoin: Do you know something, there is essentially NO DIFFERENCE between the way I marketed the NY and your "SILENT AUCTION" format. For anyone that chose to bid, if you were high bidder on the NY you got it!! With one possible difference? My high bidder on the NY before sending me any money was overnighted the NY for his/her viewing pleasure and final decision to complete the transaction. I'm not sure if the winner of your silent auction could back out after he won the coin?
Conclusion: I am pleased with the way my NY sale was consumated in roughly 72 hours. You are pleased with your (3) methods of sale. Time to move on?
pmh1nic: I merely joked about the FIRM $4,700 asking price and, guess what-I WAS RIGHT-the coin only fetched $3,999 at public auction with Supercoin netting closer to $3900 after ebay fees. Would the buyer of that coin at $4700 enjoyed losing $800 in a week had he bought it on the boards? pmh1nic: My partner on an MS68 Goodacre was selling it for $699 on ebay at the time the MS69 became available at $4700!! The price didn't change-someone bought it now at $749 (end of story) But, OK, Supercoin was sending up "hot air balloons only" with his $4,700 offer to the forum. Of course, I could only imagine wat you would have called it if I offered a coin to the forum members at $4,700 only to sell it for $3900 net the following week on ebay. I know you "like" Supercoin. Let's put this one to rest
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
You "merely joked about the FIRM $4,700 asking price?" JOKED...I'm still pondering that statement. I also don't see what your partners selling of his MS-68 Sac has to do with anything. You made an offer to sell the quarter without providing any target or reserve price. You make some nebulus statement about if a bid comes that you deem appropriate..., which given the none disclosure could be translated "if someone happens to hit what might be a moving target price" they can own the coin.
So when you talking about Tad taking a 20% hit when he sold his coin you're do it behind the shroud of mystery surrounding the selling of your coin.
After the fact you said "For anyone that chose to bid, if you were high bidder on the NY you got it!!" Do I need to remind you that that's NOT what you said before the auction.
On a separate note, who are you? See the other, more happy and friendly thread I just posted
NY-P Quarter: I made an opening bid of $5000. I really thought Mitch was going to get back to the bidders to let them know their status in the closed auction. I was willing to go more. Like I said, that was my opening bid but it ended up being my only bid.
Goodacre Sac: I emailed Tad when he had the coin listed for $4700. He offered me a discount off that price and I turned down his generous offer. The coin then wnet up for auction on eBay. I have a snipe program and had a bid of $3500 programmed in to bid with 20 seconds to go. If you watched the auction, the bidding was already past that bid when the computer tried to make my bid.
So we do know that a bid of $5000 was not in the ballpark. Anyone else want to admit to higher bid that was not accepted. Maybe we can come close to finding out what the coin sold for.
While we would all like to KNOW the offering price and actual sales price, we cannot expect that these prices will be revealed and will have to accept the fact that in some cases -- or all cases -- they are not.
Mitch is doing nothing wrong, and nothing unusual. How many coin shows have we all gone to with a dealer having a rare coin for sale but no posted price -- only offers and private discussions available on the coin? It happens all the time. We might not get a counter-offer, and if the coin is sold we might never know what it sold for. That's the business.
Yes, Mitch, we all would like to know, because we all have an interest. But for everyone else -- including me -- deal with it, it's confidential.
too bad, I really want to know too!!!
cheers to all, alan mendelson
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
peacockcoins
Now I would expect the criticism from potential bidders in an attempt to negotiate a better price. I'd even expect it from those classic collectors who just hate modern coins. I didn't expect it from another dealer who specializes in high grade modern classic coins and frequently uses this forum to hype the coins he is selling.