when a coin is very rare where do you draw the line on eye appeal when purchasing?
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when a coin is very rare where do you draw the line on eye appeal?
Let me use a chain cent as an example. These are more common then other
rare coins yet people are very forgiving when it comes to owning one. Corrosion?,
no problem, scratch?, not to worry, rim ding? adds character, worn devices?, signs
of circulation, pitted fields?, adds texture, etc...
yet most everyone i know would love to own one in any condition!
so here you are, trying to complete a series on a budget and you find a date with
approx 50 left. Most of them are completely out of your budget. So that leaves you
with a pool of 10 to purchase lets say.
The coin comes up to auction once a year and most every time you are priced out.
At what point in time do you consider a less eye appealing example for your collection?
A beggar cannot be a chooser, the coin is simply tough and eventually you will have
to consider a "problem" coin to own (even though TPG graded many might still consider
it to have problems).
I often go through this. I see a date with a tiny mintage. Most examples that have a drop
of eye appeal sell for thousands and up. There is no low grade examples I have seen for
sale as most are XF and up.
I am just curious why some coins get a break and others are considered problem coins.
You could easily refer to the thread about an 1869P half eagle I posted showing a well
circulated coin with heavy marks as a good example of a coin that did not get much love
yet rarer then a chain cent by far. (at least to my knowledge).
let me know your thoughts on a purchase you have made and why you had to sacrifice
in some areas to even own an example for your collection. thanks!
Let me use a chain cent as an example. These are more common then other
rare coins yet people are very forgiving when it comes to owning one. Corrosion?,
no problem, scratch?, not to worry, rim ding? adds character, worn devices?, signs
of circulation, pitted fields?, adds texture, etc...
yet most everyone i know would love to own one in any condition!
so here you are, trying to complete a series on a budget and you find a date with
approx 50 left. Most of them are completely out of your budget. So that leaves you
with a pool of 10 to purchase lets say.
The coin comes up to auction once a year and most every time you are priced out.
At what point in time do you consider a less eye appealing example for your collection?
A beggar cannot be a chooser, the coin is simply tough and eventually you will have
to consider a "problem" coin to own (even though TPG graded many might still consider
it to have problems).
I often go through this. I see a date with a tiny mintage. Most examples that have a drop
of eye appeal sell for thousands and up. There is no low grade examples I have seen for
sale as most are XF and up.
I am just curious why some coins get a break and others are considered problem coins.
You could easily refer to the thread about an 1869P half eagle I posted showing a well
circulated coin with heavy marks as a good example of a coin that did not get much love
yet rarer then a chain cent by far. (at least to my knowledge).
let me know your thoughts on a purchase you have made and why you had to sacrifice
in some areas to even own an example for your collection. thanks!
0
Comments
Even those of us without such financial restrictions still have to compromise. Do I like the eye appeal of my gem 1873-CC seated dollar? Not particularly....it's a little dark for my tastes. But it's the finest known by 4 grades and probably the only true unc for the date. Reality in some cases, and lack of opportunity in others, force compromise.
I don't generally collect by condition rarity but the fact that many coins are well researched, collected and photoed, I feel less to no desire to acquire most condition challenged coins. For medals and tokens, I find myself more often acquiring condition challenged pieces b/c I don't see good photos of many online. Unfortunately, I'm not contributing to solving the issue because I haven't gotten around to improving my photoing skills,
I define condition challenged as lacking eye appeal and/or having problems.
Wasn't it Trini Lopez who sang if you want to be happy for the rest of your life you should marry an ugly wife
There is an extremely rare variety in the classic head series, I put a low ball bid which was still a lot and had DW look at in person. He said it looked like crap and I should not get it. Well the bid was already placed and I got it for about 4K less than the PCGS price guide which had been pretty accurate for the more rare coins in this series.
When I first got it I saw what DW saw but it only took a few minutes to start growing on me. Now a I actually like it quite a bit.
edited: oh and this one shows up in less than 1 year intervals. It just happened that 2 showed up this year but since I got the first one I did not even have anyone bother looking at the second which did not even sell at reserve. (New ANACS holder might have had something to do with it).
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Buying a rare coin purely as investment then comes down to only the issue of if the amount paid will present a good return ( measured in terms of short term or long term depending on what you are shooting for).
<< <i>Thankfully, I have never felt compelled to purchase a "very rare" coin, but I do own choice, problem-free and apparently original examples of a number of tough coins that include a 1796 quarter, 1794 half and Gobrecht dollar as well as others. In each of these instances I was required to search longer and perhaps pay more to obtain a coin that I did not feel was a compromise. >>
Did you plan on buying an example of each or did they simply pop
up one day and you said to yourself, "that is a coin worth owning!"
If my goal was to simply aquire eye appealing coins of course a coin
that did not have it all would never qualify for purchasing... if you
follow me.
The key is to know how and when to compromise and how and when not to compromise. That comes with experience.
I like to think i know half eagles well enough to know when to compromise
on a certain date. We shall see i suppose.
All depends on the price. I could accept and enjoy a very rare fugly coin at the right price.
i totally agree with that. buying an ugly half eagle at melt with an
interesting mint mark of CC makes up for a lot of ugliness ;-)
When I first got it I saw what DW saw but it only took a few minutes to start growing on me. Now a I actually like it quite a bit.
funny how that works out in the end. do you have pics to share?
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Reality in some cases, and lack of opportunity in others, force compromise.
I wonder how many people truly understand that when many of the
coins they think are "keys" and tough, to others think of them as common. I would never be having this discussion of the coin i was
referring to sold every other month and the pops was an easy 350+
coins.
It is when a coin is sold infrequently, very few survive, and you might
not get another chance in your budget range for years... you might
wish to consider a less eye appealing example.
but it should be known, i like all half eagles. every single one. i just
like some more then others. i am trying to determine when to aquire
a less eye appealing one due to circumstances.
thanks all for your posts.
For me, in the end the reality aspect of very possibly never getting another chance to buy one of the really rare coins always outweighs the idealism of "It doesn't look the way I like them to."
By the way, a very closely related conflict that is also frequently seen in these circumstances is, "Crap, I think it's priced too high... but it's also only the second one I've ever seen offered for sale." This conflict tends to be a more agonizing decision for me than, "I don't like how it looks."
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
up one day and you said to yourself, "that is a coin worth owning!"
If my goal was to simply aquire eye appealing coins of course a coin
that did not have it all would never qualify for purchasing... if you
follow me."
The 1796 quarter took approximately five-years of constant searching to find a suitable piece within the F12-VF30 range and I likely looked at every example of the date offered by the major auction houses in that time as well as examination of ebay and online dealer inventories on a regular basis and walking the bourse at many shows. Similarly, the 1794 half dollar was a coin that took six years of searching to find, but the Gobrecht dollar "only" took four years. However, the Gobrecht dollar went up in price significantly in that time period, but I am quite happy with the example that I purchased. I've gone through this process for other coins, too, but thought that the relative scarcity of these three coins would be recognized by many.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>"Did you plan on buying an example of each or did they simply pop
up one day and you said to yourself, "that is a coin worth owning!"
If my goal was to simply aquire eye appealing coins of course a coin
that did not have it all would never qualify for purchasing... if you
follow me."
The 1796 quarter took approximately five-years of constant searching to find a suitable piece within the F12-VF30 range and I likely looked at every example of the date offered by the major auction houses in that time as well as examination of ebay and online dealer inventories on a regular basis and walking the bourse at many shows. Similarly, the 1794 half dollar was a coin that took six years of searching to find, but the Gobrecht dollar "only" took four years. However, the Gobrecht dollar went up in price significantly in that time period, but I am quite happy with the example that I purchased. I've gone through this process for other coins, too, but thought that the relative scarcity of these three coins would be recognized by many. >>
please do not take this as criticism. i just used ngc's website to look at the pops for those 3 coins.
The Gobrecht seems to be rare but i had a hard time interpreting the results due to my ignorance on that coin,
but still quite a few graded.
each one had a significant pop left to choose from in lower grades. 100+ coins easy for two of them.
you had the opportunity to view a few each year i imagine and that allowed you to be choosy?
some of the half eagles i dream of owning i have yet to see them up for sale, ever, since collecting
or 1-3 times. The 1859-S i wished I could have owned that popped up on ebay is a good example
of a coin that is sold once a year if you are lucky.
If i was able to see a handful up for sale every year the coin would not even fit into my "very rare"
category.
the 3 coins you listed are truly desirable, scarce, and a sight to behold. i am jealous that you are able
to own such pieces.
if i was ever to own one all 3 are examples of coins that i would have to make sacrifices to own and yet
are 3 times more available then some half eagles i wish to own some day.
Just look at the 1864-S half eagle for example. I cannot even recall the last time it has been sold in a price
i could even dream of affording. 7 have sold at heritage in their entire history.
the 1796 quarter has had 7 sold this year in various grades.
must be nice to have the chance to be picky ;-) it is the coins where heritage has sold less then a dozen
in their entire history are the ones where i wonder when you should compromise just to own an example.
so rare that people do not even think of them. they are invisible due to being so tough. the only time they
go through you head is when you look at a price guide.
Ugly stuff can bite you at resale time.
Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
<< <i>Let me use a chain cent as an example. These are more common then other
rare coins yet people are very forgiving when it comes to owning one. Corrosion?,
no problem, scratch?, not to worry, rim ding? adds character, worn devices?, signs
of circulation, pitted fields?, adds texture, etc... >>
<< <i>I am just curious why some coins get a break and others are considered problem coins. >>
I think an "acceptable" coin is relative. Since most Chain Cents have all sorts of environmental problems, it's considered okay to own such a coin with a plethora of problems. If, however, this were a 1914-D Lincoln Cent, any sign of corrosion, rim dings, and/or scratches would be frowned upon.
In the end, it's a matter of how patient you're willing to be. If you can wait several years, hold out for a coin you'll be thrilled to own. In fact, you can take it one step further and try to identify the owner of the coin in question in which you find appealing and let he/she know you're a ready buyer when the time comes. Identifying such owners will be difficult, but I've scored some nice coins in doing this and have also sold some equally nice pieces as well. It's often worth the detective work.
excellent thoughts and one i just tried on for size.
my vg10 1859-S half eagle just arrived in the mail today. i am pleased with it.
the person who won the vf30 1859-S on ebay a few months ago is the person i got
it from.
i emailed him congratulations on the win and a request for him to describe the coin
to me when it arrived. He turned around and offered his lower grade coin to me.
I now keep an eye out for coins he wants and he will more then likely do the same for me.
The problem is we both want the same coins :-) For example the civil war S dates which
fit this thread perfectly. For sale every blue moon and anything within our budgets even less often.
"I have never felt compelled to purchase a "very rare" coin, but I do own choice, problem-free and apparently original examples of a number of tough coins..."
I had intended that statement to serve as a disclaimer that my experience would not necessarily match yours.
The populations of all three coins that I listed are sufficient such that at least one example of one piece will be available at any given time. In fact, I would venture to guess that at most any time more than one example can be found in total for those three coins. Once one reconciles the cost of each coin, the real issue becomes one of availability within the parameters that I chose. You will note that I had been generally looking for examples in the F-VF range, though the Gobrecht is only a PF10, and that I was looking for pieces that were attractive, essentially original and problem-free. The extant pieces in each grade range are generally worked-on, manipulated dogs that I would not spend my money to obtain. The choice pieces appear to be a small fraction of the overall pool and these are the coins that I attempted to chase. In fact, looking at the PCGS populations, the Gobrecht in PF10 is the single lowest graded, PCGS-certified coin for the 102-pieces that PCGS has graded for the issue, yet I found it far more appealing than the higher graded, previously dipped coins that pop up.
Therefore, the issues that you face will not always be the same as those that I have faced and where I have displayed patience to wait for the right coin, even if I did not know that the coin would ever appear, in my opinion you seem to have the decision to make as to whether you want your collection to be more choice or to be more complete. That particular answer is up to you.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
doh. i thought you were making a small joke. by putting "very rare" in quotes i thought you
were basically saying to me that rare does not need a very in front of it... i also consider the
3 coins you choose to be in the same caliber more or less as the ones i want in the grand
scheme of things.
in other words, i misunderstood you. my mistake!
in my opinion you seem to have the decision to make as to whether you want your collection to be more choice
or to be more complete.
yes, that is a good summary.
it appears if something is truly rare and hard to locate in any grade.. i would prefer that over a more common
choice coin.
often the reasons why it is rare make for a very interesting discussion and date. the civil war dates being an
excellent example. 1862-1864 are exciting years in history (and sad). 1854-1859 S coins are exciting because
of the gold rush.
1881P and 1881S not so much. yawn.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson