You Don't Have The Finest Registered Set
dalew
Posts: 491
I am not trying to compete with Erik Jarvi, Frank Bakka, Carlos Aponte or Neil Downey on the 72 Cards. It's just that I've been adding to a set, I have a place to post it and if it moves up the ladder over time, fine.
Who hasn't?
I've been checking ebay to see who has been bidding on the 8's and the 9's, and doesn't seem to be the big five, but individuals and dealers.
In an earlier post about "big guns," do these people just buy out PSA graded cards or have they been purcashing all along and just upload at a later time?
The PSA Registry should say, "All time PSA Registered Set," since better cards may be out there.
I'd like to know how many people are registered as members of the PSA Email (forums) section.
I'm rambling, but at 44, I can. I ride on the short bus, am a window licker, and miss gum in baseball card packs, even though the teeth can't take it.
Dale
Who hasn't?
I've been checking ebay to see who has been bidding on the 8's and the 9's, and doesn't seem to be the big five, but individuals and dealers.
In an earlier post about "big guns," do these people just buy out PSA graded cards or have they been purcashing all along and just upload at a later time?
The PSA Registry should say, "All time PSA Registered Set," since better cards may be out there.
I'd like to know how many people are registered as members of the PSA Email (forums) section.
I'm rambling, but at 44, I can. I ride on the short bus, am a window licker, and miss gum in baseball card packs, even though the teeth can't take it.
Dale
1st Finest Set - 1981 Baseball Fleer Basic - Retired
1st Finest Set - 1981 Baseball Fleer Master - Retired
1st Finest Set - 1955 Baseball Golden Stamps - Cleveland Indians - Retired
1st Finest Set - Mel Harder Baseball Master - Active
Mel Harder Showcase Set - Active
#15 on Current Set Registry - 1972 Topps Baseball - Retired
#23 on All Time Set Registry - 1972 Topps Baseball - Retired
1st Finest Set - 1981 Baseball Fleer Master - Retired
1st Finest Set - 1955 Baseball Golden Stamps - Cleveland Indians - Retired
1st Finest Set - Mel Harder Baseball Master - Active
Mel Harder Showcase Set - Active
#15 on Current Set Registry - 1972 Topps Baseball - Retired
#23 on All Time Set Registry - 1972 Topps Baseball - Retired
0
Comments
One of the many sets I am working on is the 1968 Baseball in PSA-8 & 9's. Currently I am #1 on the registry with almost 60% completed about 275 PSA-8's and 75 PSA-9's. Since I have upgraded and have many duplicates available. I brought my many duplicates (about 100) to the Ft. Washington (Philly) show last month when I set up as a dealer. A passer by spotted the large stacks of '68's and pulled out his list, he saw that I had some 9's on top and needed to upgrade his set since he said he had about 40 8's that needed a boost, plus a small handful that he needed at least an 8. So I remarked, Wow! you have 40 8's and almost 550 9's!!! He said no, I have over 400 9's and almost 100 PSA-10's incl. Mantle. Amazed at his accumulation of PSA-10's (I have zero in that set). I asked why isn't he on the Registry, his response was, "the fewer people who know what his collection consists of the better". I had nothing that he needed, and after he walked away, a fellow dealer stated that he was legit and flew from California to PA to pick up cards he might need for this and other sets. - Now if this gentleman was to register his set, his #'s would be off the chart.
And I agree with you DALE that I didn't register my set for bragging rights and I'm only interested in completing and upgrading my set as I see fit. But in actuallity there are less then 600 sets that have been registered (& several where the collector has just 1 or 2 cards listed) and thats out of all the sports that PSA has made available. So you can imagine several hundred if not thousands that are kep quiet...jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Steve P
Another example is with my 1975 set. . .I really didn't get serious about this set until this past SportsFest. At that point, I picked up 100 or so commons from vending and I picked up a PSA8 Carter RC at the show - and that was the first graded 75 I'd picked up. By the end of this coming week, I'll be right at 35% complete all PSA8 or better and move back to #1 on the rankings. However. . .I know there are at least two other people building graded 75T sets who are ahead of me (in both completion and grade) who have not yet put their sets on the registry - and may never do it. So while I may be listed at #1 or #2 on the registry it doesn't mean I have the best 75 set. . .just the best 75 set among those who have registered. And also. . .the set registry uses PSA's definition of "best" - at least for the weighted sets. There are lots of ways to define "best" so that factors into it as well.
Jay> I just pulled up the pop report. . .there are a total of 406 PSA10s from 68. . .and they are spread among 148 different cards (by my count). 100 different PSA10s would be most impressive indeed.
Dale> I've always said if you're building your set for "bragging rights" or competition, then you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons. Your set should be for you. If other people enjoy it or are impressed by it, then well fine. . .but the most important thing is that YOU enjoy it.
Mike
I just read your message about the phantom '68 collector who supposedly has 400 - 9's and nearly 100 - 10's and is from California. I wonder if this being confused with someone who's from the Northeast, because I know of another collector who's building a '68 set that has about the same numbers. It would be hard for me to believe that there are two people with those kinds of sets - especially getting that many unique 10's.
For example let's say that the collector that Jay mentioned registers his set, and he registers it under the name of "Mr. Smith". He then decides to elect NOT to show his e-mail address, his cards, and the cards grades. How could the competiton use that to their advantage? The most they would be able to figure out is that "Joecardguy" on Ebay has registered his set and the set has a rating of "8.50". They could reasonably guess this over time as Joecardguy keeps winning important cards, and Mr. Smith's GPA keeps going up shortly thereafter. So they put two and two together.
There's no harm to the collector in question from what I can see.
The only reason I can come up with other than someone just not being interested or doesn't have computer access as Doc pointed out, would be that they simply don't want anyone to know just how far advanced their set is. I'm not sure why someone would feel this way unless they feared getting robbed or something.
Anyway, we had a thread on the advantages versus the disadvantages of the Registry several months back (I'm sure you were part of it), and we pretty much concluded that the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. So it continues to baffle me why people hesitate to register their sets.
Qualitycards has to be referring to the "King" of 1968 in the northeast! This "disquise" being used of him being from California is obviously a reference towards the PSA 10 champion of the world (with whom the collector in the Northeast has not had positive encounters with). In addition, no way does the California hobbyist have 400+ PSA 9 along with his extraordinary PSA 10s.
Nevertheless, qualitycards is certainly on the money in that there are wonderful and definitely more superior sets than what is being shown on the registry. It is too bad that these collections are not being showcased with at least aliases. It would be a treat to see them.
Ron
And "Z" to answer your 1st question, why doesn't he (or many others) register their set without showing grades or cards. Perhaps these are an eccentric bunch that wants to keep a low profile, perhaps they are paranoid thinking a thief would have access to his whereabouts. Or perhaps they think PSA would turn over the results to the IRS, who knows? - I think the registry is great, I have 4 sets registered with 2 or 3 more that I'm working on to build up the #'s...jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
At what point does a collector feel like there are so few remaining ungraded cards worthy of submission that they feel they are forced into a "whatever it takes" attitude for the low-pop stuff that's out there? Vargha, have you run into this with your Bowman set?
Mike
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
The person with the awesome '68 set is in his mid-60s, so it sounds like this was him. I think his numbers are padded a bit and he is from the Northeast and not California, but he does have a set that will go off the scale on the registry. I've sold him a significant portion of his set. Since he always asks confidentiality on his transactions, I'm sure that the California bit was a red herring. Some people are pretty paranoid about letting other people know about their collections. I'm sure some of it is the fear of being robbed. I've never met him in person. I hope to one of these days. He's a first class guy.
The two most common things I have seen:
a) A majority of people actively working on sets do not want their sets registered because of the protection it serves. Many set collectors strike a fine balance between anonymonity and "famousness" for their respective sets. By not registered, they remain fairly anonymous. For example, with 1968, it seems like I could name over 5 people that are over half done, but not on the registry.
b) Some people have amazing sets that they are not putting together toward the registry. I think of someone with high-grade 1950s sets with all the stars graded 8 and 9 with nothing else graded. Since he is not pursuing those sets in graded form, they sit comfortably in a vault...
For too many of us, the thoughts of having a set registered before we are complete with them is nothing short of blasphemy.
For some of us, it is an amazing feeling to have contacts throughout the baseball world, dealers and collectors that we talk with monthly, weekly, and some every day, yet we can go to a baseball card show, ask questions (sometimes to the very dealers whom we know) and yet pass by as a random, anonymous collector.
As a 25-year old, I enjoy being unrecognized. I enjoy dressing down at shows so no one would consider me a serious player. I enjoy having some cards that I know would make great additions to other's sets or player collections. And I enjoy the fact that I could just as easily disappear from the scene for 3-5 years to pursue other ambitions, and not many would know the difference.
MS
But, unless you're capturing all of the cert numbers and keeping a record of your collection just in case of theft - the set registry is a great place to keep track for you. If you posted under an alias - didn't allow anyone access to your individual cards - and held off loading new acquisitions for a couple of weeks - no one could track you down unless you blabbed it yourself.
You also mentioned that most of the 72 bidding on eBay is not from the usual suspects - you're probably correct. You might find Erik, Andy Montero and I going for the occasional 9 and Carlos and Neil going for some 8's. But, for the most part, its cheaper to send in to PSA ourselves.
And Dale - if you're building your set without regard to anyone else - then you've got it right. Its not to say that Erik, Neil and Mike to razz each other now and then - thats half the fun - but we also buy, sell and trade with each other all of the time.
Good luck on your set!
Frank Bakka
1968, 1969, 1970
and a pretty nice 72 set
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
How enviable to be a sophisticated collector and only be 25. Just think of what kind of collection you will have in 40 years. It should be amazing. In case you are wondering, I just turned 43 today.
Vargha,
On this subject of finest collections, I've been told by a very reliable source that the "Price-Is-No-Object-1968-Collector" has now started working on a 1951 Bowman set. You have my deepest condolences.
Mike
I am the same age as schmidty (just a punk kid) but his knowledge far surpasses mine. I knew he was around my age because he had previously spoken about collecting as a kid and it was the same years that I collected.
Vargha - I hope you don't get too ticked at me for starting the "varghabucks" thing. You've been a good sport about it and it's just that the rest of us wish we had the dough that you have to spend on cards
Happy Birthday!
Sky
"Give me a reason to fly, and I'll be there"
Secondly I think if "Mikeschmidt" is only 25 he will become a seriously dangerous force in this hobby. How much does his rookie card go for anyway (the board member, not the player)?
Third (and most importantly) - Happy "B" Day Dude!
Blatant typo . . .
Happy 43rd Birthday! With babe (and baby) in arms -- you've got the best collectino of all.
I guess I'm sort of in the middle here at 36 years old!
aconte
Count me in as another young person who collects vintage psa sets.
Rambling...
I recall the first time I spoke to MS about age - I was under the impression he was a much older man (that was some 2 years ago). Same applied to Dave Forman, I thought he was much older as well.
Happy Belated Birthday Dude!
Z,
Information usually finds a way to leak and I think it is vital for serious set builders to keep as much information in private as possible. Anonymity is their best ally. Let's face it, when people know what you want - you stand more of a chance to getting "worked". I have a vintage set-builders list of cards that he seeks and when I frequent the Rosemont, IL shows I am on the lookout. And I treat this as a "noc list" of sorts so it won't get out in the open.
The only obvious examples I can think of are if there is a one of one card available at auction or if there's a one of two card, and you're already the owner of one of those two cards (in the latter example you will know that the collector in question needs the remaining card because you have one of them). Sure those scenarios could set a collector up for getting "worked" as you put it, but what other examples are there given the above picture?
Unfortunately, it is mainly the high $$$, low population cards that dealers can track well enough to know who to work and how much they can work them for.
The dealers have a vast and tight network knowing who pays what for certain cards. Mantle is the best example. I would bet a lot of money that most connected dealers could place a majority of the 1950s Mickey Mantle PSA 9 cards, as well as nearly all of the Mickey Mantle PSA 10 cards. Furthermore, they know who needs what, etc.
It usually works best with cards that hit the thousand(s) of dollars. Otherwise, it is not always worth it for dealers to put in the legwork to track this sort of information.
Just to play devil's advocate for a second, if I may: Given the prices paid on Ebay and in many of the public auction houses, if I had tracked such information over the last 18 months, do you think I could tell you:
a) Bidding patterns/amounts on the 1964 Topps Giant and 1970 Kelloggs sets?
b) Which cards have been purchased in 10, by whom, and when?
c) Which cards are still needed?
d) Can I track bidding patterns to see if you have any alliances?
That is just with public information. If I take that a step further and track down things like:
a) Who competes with you in bidding?
b) Can I ask questions of collecting friends to see where other 9s/10s have gone? (answer: yes)
c) Can I ask dealer friends if they have any contacts for certain cards? (e.g. offer them my 1964 Topps Giant Warren Spahn PSA 10 (doesnt' exist) and see what they will pay/if they can turn it)
Just playing devil's advocate. But there is certainly a lot of information out there. Much of it is public. Much of it can be had by asking the right people the right questions. And much of it cannot be hidden very well by a second Ebay userid.
Best of luck!
a) Bidding patterns/amounts on the 1964 Topps Giant and 1970 Kelloggs sets?
b) Which cards have been purchased in 10, by whom, and when?
c) Which cards are still needed?
d) Can I track bidding patterns to see if you have any alliances?
a) Yes of course. I know these figures myself and others know them for the sets they follow.
b) Yes, as long as it's on Ebay. Auction houses like Superior and Mastro aren't going to give you this information (I would certainly hope). On private purchases you may be able to get this information if you have an "in" with the seller.
c) Not necessarily. Disprove my example above or give me examples of how one can obtain the information. Sure, in your Spahn example, it's a one of one PSA 10 so if you can find the owner then you would automatically know who doesn't have it.
d) Yes, of course. A little detective work often yields results.
It's an interesting topic as usual. I still haven't heard any compelling reasons against listing your set, not showing the grades, and keeping a low profile (ie not blabbing to people what you have, what you need, etc...)
Z - a few things...
-You defined "low profile" as not blabbing to others and I contend that that is not "low profile" enough. Extra measures need to be taken for it to be classified as "low profile" because the mere omission of blabbing doesn't equal full or little anonymity.
- "Information usually finds a way to leak..." Now ponder that coupled with what MS wrote and take it a step further. That will answer your c). Can you prove to me that information doesn't leak?
-Just curious, Z, how many large shows do you attend a year?
You asked me if I can prove that information doesn't leak. I never suggested that information doesn't leak so why should I try to prove something that can't be proven? In fact I gave an example of information leaking in my response to Mikeschmidt when I wrote that "On private purchases you may be able to get this information if you have an 'in' with the seller." (See response letter "b" to Mikeschmidt). Of course there are many other ways information can leak.
I don't go to many large shows, but I realize that there is a great deal of information sharing at shows.
You're right and I apologize - I was careless.
<< In fact I gave an example of information leaking in my response to Mikeschmidt when I wrote that >>
Yes, but it was contingent upon having that "in". We are going to disagree on this but my contention this whole time is that "Information leaks" so no matter how cautious one thinks they are, there still has to be extra measures taken. This is precisely why you will never see my serious sets on the set registry until they are completed - knowing full well I could list them w/o people knowing the cards and with an alias.
I also agree with you that there are information leaks and that extra measures can help. Maybe where we disagree is that for me the advantages of the Registry outweigh the disadvantages so I'm comfortable registering completely graded sets and not showing the grades. I take certain defensive measures, buy from different sources and do quite a bit of my own submissions. For me I'm happy with the way I'm doing things. Is it perfect? Definetely not, but I'm comfortable with it.
As long as you are happy, that's all that matters. As for extra measures - I do hope that you have more than one eBay name.