80-81 basketball wax tray pack

Dand52261

Has anybody seen these ever? I am concerned with fakes.

Dand52261

Anybody have any feedback

bifff257

I dont have any specific Knowledge of these trays...

But you can always just buy from Steve at BBCE.... that way there is no question....

He would probably be happy to give you some info about this issue also..

Dand52261

I haven't seen one come up for auction in a long time. Steve has none available. I bought one at a show a few weeks ago and spent $250. I just want to see if there are any others out there. Thank you for your response

summerof68

I've only ever seen one '80-'81 basketball wax tray on ebay. I was immediately suspicious on two accounts. Firstly the oval on the cellophane said 3- 20 cent paks. However if you look on the front of a '80-'81 topps basketball wax box it says 25 cents. So if these wax paks sold for 25 cents they why the 3-20 cents on the wax tray. I was under the assumption that '79 was the last year topps wax was 20 cents. They went to 25 cents in '80. Secondly the tray I was referring to has very loose cellophane on the right vertical edge of the tray. It looked like someone slid the 3 '80 bb paks into an empty '79 tray.

Dand52261

Thank you for your answer. Now I need to take a look at mine.

stown

<< <i>I haven't seen one come up for auction in a long time. Steve has none available. I bought one at a show a few weeks ago and spent $250. I just want to see if there are any others out there. Thank you for your response >>



Well if you bought it at a show, it's unlikely you'll get a refund.

So I suggest you go ahead and bust that sucker open.

RedHeart54

It just seems to me that considering the age of wax trays that faking them would be nearly impossible. The cellophane on any of them is pretty brittle by now. I don't think the fact it has a 20 cent designation on it means much. Maybe Topps sold the trays at the end of the season for a discount. Who knows. I do know that the 1980 basketball trays are among the hardest to find. I didn't even know they existed until just a few years ago.

Beezer12

I've never heard of wax trays from 1981, I thought they were in bags by that time. Here's some reading on them.
Text

grote15

I was also under the impression that 1980 was the last year that Topps produced wax trays. Though Topps was known for using old wrappers and boxes at the end of the year sometimes, I've never seen a tray from any sport in a previous year's cello wrapping and I'd be skeptical for these reasons, too.

Dand52261

Update. I did buy it from a reputable dealer who has some of the rarest unopened stuff I have ever seen. It is the typical brittle plastic. There are no tears rips, nothing to demonstrate any tampering. However it does have a green oval with 3 20 cent packs on the front. I am considering it legit for now. I did email BBC EX and have not hear from them yet. I will update any info. I thank everyone for their 2 cents.

Dand52261

Just heard from Steve Hart. Less than a day for an answer. He told me to stay away. I know this is not good news, however I am not going to bust it.

BobaFett72

you should bust it and see whats inside....whats the alternative? you cant return it can you?

Dand52261

Might be able to return it. I know the dealer well. I am just considering it a test issue, anomaly, anything to make me feel better at this point

Dand52261

I know resealers are not the genius, mensa type. However wouldn't they have used a 1980 baseball wax tray with the red oval and 25 cent distinction if they wanted it to look more than legit?

BobaFett72

how about you take a pic for us

Leiascards

<< <i>I know resealers are not the genius, mensa type. However wouldn't they have used a 1980 baseball wax tray with the red oval and 25 cent distinction if they wanted it to look more than legit? >>



Topps was known to go back and use wrappers from previous years.

Dand52261

Thanks Leias starting to make me feel better. Do you think if I contacted Topps they may be able to give me an answer?

Leiascards

If Steve said to avoid it thought I can almost guarantee you this was a repack job much like the Christmas racks and other things we have seen in the past.

summerof68

This is summerof 68 again. I was the person who originally mentioned that I had seen only one '80-81 basketball wax tray on ebay in the last 5 years and I was suspicious because it had the 3-20 cent oval when in fact '80-81 bb wax paks sold for 25 cents and not 20 cents. I then saw that the right vertical edge of the tray had a hugh amount of slack in the cellophane-more than I had ever seen in a tray. I knew within 5 seconds this tray was a fake!!. Now to answer your question as to why, if your tray was fake, didn't this person use the wrapper and cardboard from an '80 bb tray which would say 3-25 cent paks and lessen any suspicion?. Well to answer this question you have to adopt the mindset of a thief. Firstly the wax paks from '80 baseball jumped to containing 15 cards instead of 12 cards with '79 baseball. Additionally Topps got fancy with '80-81 basketball cards with the two perforations on each card allowing one card to be broken into 3 small cards. This additional cost to produce these fancier cards caused Topps to only put (8) cards in a wax pak as opposed to 15 cards in an '80 bb wax pak. So the '80 topps baseball wax paks are almost twice as thick as an '80-81 basketball wax pak. Consequently if you slide out the thick '80 bb wax paks from the side of the tray and replace them with the very thin '80-81 basketball wax paks then there will be alot of slack in the cellopane all over the tray. Therefore to make it look more legit this person had no choice but to use a '79 baseball tray which housed wax paks containing 12 cards and this would leave less slack in the cellophane. And don't kid yourself...when it comes to unopened material there are thieves all over the place trying to make a quick buck.... just a month ago I posted a thread on this same message board about a ebay seller who sold me 3 counterfeit '78 fb wax trays. He listed three separate auctions containing one tray and used the same (stock) photo. The tray in the stock photo was beautiful. The trays arrived and immediately I saw there was no brown oval on the trays. Nor were there any bar codes or any seals on the reverses. This person obviously placed three resealed wax paks in a cardboard tray and used a shrink wrap machine to re-wrap the trays to make them look somewhat legit. I immediately called him and threatened him with the FBI. He played dumb and said he didn't know what I meant by the brown oval. I replied that I was referring to the (brown oval) that was on (his) stock picture. He then told me he couldn't believe how this could of happened. And of course those were his (last) three '78s but he did have a case of '79 football trays right next to him and yes they did have a brown oval. He said he would send me the best 5 from the case immediately as compensation. I told him the '78's are much scarcer and '79's don't excite me but make it 6 pristine paks and I'll forget about the FBI. The 6 perfect '79s arrived in two days!! So suffice it to say that there are alot of people out there who will try (anything) to make a quick buck with unopened material. All this being said if Steve Hart tells you to (stay away) then that says it all. Steve told me 2 years ago to stay away from those bogus '70,71 & '72 bb grocery 12-card cellos. And also the bad '58 bb cellos with the wrong seal configuration. He won't authenticate any of these bogus cellos for PSA yet Gai is still authenticating them. (one of those bogus gai slabbed '58 cellos is ending on ebay today with a current bid of $910--look at the rear seal configuration--its not even close to being legit). I've been a buyer and seller of unopened material now on ebay for 5 years. My first year I was naive and was burned several times by unscrupulous sellers of unopened material. But I've taken my hits and learned one heck of alot and I now know what to look for. As Clint Eastwood said in "The Good, Bad, and the Ugly"--"there are two types of people in the world--those with a loaded gun and those who dig". My first year on ebay I did some digging...now I carry the loaded gun. Translation--I've done my research & homework and acquired alot of experience. Now when someone trys to rip me off on ebay I go after them like a badger......

Dand52261

Thank you for your insight

VintageBasketballCard

Dand52261

Looks exactly like mine. I know I said I would not bust it, but I did and got absolutely junk. Gum was in a million pieces in each pack. Cards seemed to be a little faded. I don't know what this proves

RedHeart54

Here is my 1980 Topps hockey tray. Like the basketball set of that year, packs had originally been priced at 25 cents each but were packaged here as a 20 cent pack. I've had this for five or six years and have only seen one or two others. There is some fraying of the cellophane on the left edge but the whole pack is pretty tight (and these are 10-card packs). Again, I like to think that the cellophane became brittle enough that it would have been impossible to open it without destroying the cellophane, alas, ruining any chance of resealing it. Also, I think any glue used to reseal the edges would be very evident (assuming the edges were even still sealed). As far as quality control of the cards, I obviously have no idea. However, the more I think about it the more I wonder if these were a way to get rid of that year's extra product- either in the factory or from store sendbacks. (On the other hand I have yet to hear any theories why the 1979 hockey trays "suddenly" appeared a few years ago. They are still quite easy to find though certainly not cheap for obvious reasons.)

Dand52261

Steve Hart told me those were possibly bad as well, but that looks legit to me.
I don't know what to think now

summerof68

Summerof68 here again. People this isn't rocket science. Thanks to the person who submitted the reverse picture of his '80 hockey wax tray you see the right seal is factory perfect. All the (small horizontal lines) in the seal look just as they should look. Now look at the left seal and you immediately see that 70% of these (small horizontal lines) are missing. Plus the continuity of the vertical seal as a whole has been disturbed in at least 3 places. The 70% of these (small horizontal lines) disappeared when the counterfeiter applied heat and probably moisture to the seal to open it. He carefully slid out the '79 bb paks and slid in the hockey paks and then used heat to reseal the flap--this person actually did a sloppy job!! Just apply logic to your own works with respect to the condition of the cards from your tray, "the cards were a little faded". Cards fresh out of an undisturbed wax pak will not be faded. The '80 hockey tray and your tray are both hand made. Keep your evidence and demand a full refund from the "reputable" dealer who sold it to you.

Dand52261

You sound angry about this whole issue?

summerof68

I'm angry in the respect that there are people out there who are damaging the integrity of unopened material marketplace to make a quick dollar. As I mentioned in an earlier email someone tried to take me on the three '78 fb trays. Your the one who should be angry in this regard. But since you've taken this tone on this matter just deal with it as you please for it is no longer my concern.

Dand52261

You've got to get over it kid. Dealers of any kind have been unscruplous since the beginning of time. You better believe I am not happy about this, but live and learn.

grote15

I'm angry in the respect that there are people out there who are damaging the integrity of unopened material marketplace to make a quick dollar.

Ain't that the truth. The multiple raw packs for sale up on ebay right now are absolutely pitiful, even by resealer standards.

RedHeart54

So it sounds as if my tray has been resealed.

proofer2

Dand, since you mentioned you got junk, I assume no stars, semis, etc. What about the condition of the cards? How did the corners look? Do the cards look like they've been handled in the past? And what about the centering? I guess just because you got junk doesn't necessarily prove anything.

Dand52261

Probably a couple of mint 9 candidates with semi perfect centering. Calvin Murphy and Dave Cowens were my best cards. Not the best color like I said. They don't look like they were handled. The other cards were pretty poorly centered. A couple with corner dings looking like part of tight packaging. Agan I don't know what this proves other than I am not sure about much still. We should rip any of these questionable racks to verify the rumors. This forum is educating collectors as to what not to buy. The market for these rack trays should change with these questionable years. This is a productive thing. I hard lesson to learn but productive