Does anyone have an extreme closeup of what dipping does to the surfaces of a silver coin?
Realone
Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭✭
maybe i should restate it as overdipping but does the surface become etched, almost like as pited or peeled look?
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Here's a closeup----keep in mind this is after soaking for ONE MONTH in eZest.
If a coin was only dipped once, and done well, you probably wouldn't be able to tell unless you had a pretty powerful scope.
<< <i>I have a couple of ms65's in TPG plastic and notice etching on some of the surfaces, don't know if this is typical or from dipping because other than your photo ( albeit drastic dipping) I have never seen its results, i need a 22x to pick it up and realize graders at the TPG's only use 5x so they won't see it. maybe that is why they allow dipping because they don't pick its results up. >>
Remember after the blank planchets were tumbled and annealed, they were cleaned in acid so the newly struck coins would be bright. Evidence of etching might be visible on the high points of the coin's relief.
Take a silver coin that is just normal , dirty and ugly. I could demonstrate it on some culls. But, just take a coin that is ugly. Squirt it down with toothpaste. Let it sit for a few seconds. VOILA, rinse with water and pat dry. You pretty much strip the coin. The longer you let it sit in the cleaner, the more it strips away. It looks clean , white and shiney, but loses it's .... well, you'll see. That's pretty much what over dipping a coin will do, too. It just loses that originality, Al.
Now this was with CREST. It took all of thirty seconds. Can you see the difference ? It's not exactly what the doctors use, but it gives a general idea.
I took predip photos and then took as similar a photo as possible after each dip cycle. To speed the process up I only took 4 views of the same approximate location. The chosen locations have reference flaws.
The subject coin would probably grade PF68 DCAM.
Dip Times were:
2 Seconds
5 Seconds (7 Seconds total)
10 Seconds (17 Seconds total)
20 Seconds (37 Seconds total)
40 Seconds (77 Seconds total)
60 Seconds (137 Seconds total)
Dip solution was E-Z-Est
Rinse:
Tape Water
then Distilled Water
then 91% Alcohol
Before Dipping
After all Dipping (137 second emersion time)
All photo's can be viewed here.
Given the fact that a typical dip lasts 2 to 4 seconds tops, the last photo shows the results of 68 2 second dips or 34 4 second dips.
That's a lot of dips over the life of a coin.
Draw your own conclusions with regard to dipping.
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
for being an excellent thread
Robert.
<< <i>Also bear in mind it's very important to properly rinse a dipped coin. Here's what can happen if you don't:
Do you know this personally as a fact or is this your opinion as to why the obverse is discolored and splotchy?
Personally I would think that, since the entire coin is immersed in dip and the entire coin improperly rinsed, the discoloration and splotchiness would have appeared on both sides of the coin. And yes this is just my speculative opinion.
The name is LEE!
BTW, the images can probably be found in one of his books.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
S. Travers, Coin Collector's Survival Manual, p. 301 (5th ed. 2006).
<< <i>Maybe close to 20 years ago, Scott Travers showed me before and after images of a coin that had been dipped once, the images taken through a scanning electron microscope. The "before" picture showed crisp metal flow lines. The after picture showed substantially eroded metal flow lines, like a sand castle that had been eroded by one or two waves.
BTW, the images can probably be found in one of his books. >>
And a Scanning Electron Microscope fits exactly where in coin collecting?
The name is LEE!
It's up to the collector. Speaking for myself, the knowledge gained through the SEM has kept me from dipping some coins. However, other collectors remain free to dip and damage their coins as they please, and many do.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe close to 20 years ago, Scott Travers showed me before and after images of a coin that had been dipped once, the images taken through a scanning electron microscope. The "before" picture showed crisp metal flow lines. The after picture showed substantially eroded metal flow lines, like a sand castle that had been eroded by one or two waves.
BTW, the images can probably be found in one of his books. >>
And a Scanning Electron Microscope fits exactly where in coin collecting? >>
Uh... Right here. Here are some SEM pics of a milk spotted silver eagle.
The top two are from the unspotted area and the bottom two from a spotted area. I will try to get bigger individual pics.
Here is the actual coin from which the pics were taken.
As you can see we had to re-size the coin with tin snips to get it to fit under the sampling equipment.
<< <i>OK I want to see what an etched surface looks like, and is it uniform etching over the entire surface or can it just happen on the bust and not the field and stars etc.? >>
I suppose it would depend on the type of dipping solution and how long the coin is in the solution [contact time]. The premise behind how Nic O Date works is that some parts of the coin's surface are harder than others and that the hardened parts like the letters and numbers react slowe with the acid in Nic O Date. The fields should etch uniformly.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you have the coins then you should hopefully be able to find some one with a microscope and or camera to take the pix for you. >>
Negative, live in a small town away from all. Heck I have never had an opportunity yet to meet any collector albeit one dealer in the area who has no such equipment or interest. Chit out of luck as one says, unless i send it off. >>
Sending it off is sorta what I had in mind if you can find a connection thru the boreds here.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe close to 20 years ago, Scott Travers showed me before and after images of a coin that had been dipped once, the images taken through a scanning electron microscope. The "before" picture showed crisp metal flow lines. The after picture showed substantially eroded metal flow lines, like a sand castle that had been eroded by one or two waves.
BTW, the images can probably be found in one of his books. >>
And a Scanning Electron Microscope fits exactly where in coin collecting? >>
Uh... Right here. Here are some SEM pics of a milk spotted silver eagle.
The top two are from the unspotted area and the bottom two from a spotted area. I will try to get bigger individual pics.
Here is the actual coin from which the pics were taken.
As you can see we had to re-size the coin with tin snips to get it to fit under the sampling equipment.
>>
Shoot that coin looks familiar.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you have the coins then you should hopefully be able to find some one with a microscope and or camera to take the pix for you. >>
Negative, live in a small town away from all. Heck I have never had an opportunity yet to meet any collector albeit one dealer in the area who has no such equipment or interest. Chit out of luck as one says, unless i send it off. >>
Might I casually suggest that your next purchase be a good stereo microscope?
They can be had for less the $400 and would be invaluable to you. Especially if you are looking for good close-ups.
The name is LEE!
I think some people often forget that TPGs never said that every coin in their holder is original. Dipped coins get into holder because they accept them that way---not because they can't detect it.
<< <i>Personally I would think that, since the entire coin is immersed in dip and the entire coin improperly rinsed, the discoloration and splotchiness would have appeared on both sides of the coin. And yes this is just my speculative opinion. >>
This is a coin I dipped early in my collecting years, didn't rinse properly, then sent to PCGS. It came back to me as you see here and in a PR64 holder.