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Ernie Banks and who?

Hey all,

Had a weird research question, and I figured someone here might be able to help.

In the below photo, I was wondering who those uniformed men are in the Cubs dugout, in front of Banks. I was thinking that they might be military, but I didn't see any characteristic to make me 100% sure on that. Could they be ushers??

The photo dates from the early 60s, if I'm not mistaken, if that helps.

Thanks,

Graig
www.graigkreindler.com

image

Comments

  • Might they have something to do with the flyers that the fans are trying to get signed? Reps from the advertiser on the flyer?

    NathanSr
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  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,711 ✭✭✭
    Graig, I don't know the answer to your question, but your new paintings are amazing.
  • MooseDogMooseDog Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭
    Looks like a bus driver's uniform, sorta like Ralph Kramden (Jackie Gleason) in the old TV show The Honeymooners. My guess is they are stadium ushers but just a wild guess. I leave whether military or not to experts like Rube.
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭
    It's the International Milkman's Union...making illegitimate children since 1912.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • DavidPuddyDavidPuddy Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭
    I'm pretty sure that it was "Dress Like a Milkman" day!

    Edited: because BunchOBull beat me to it.
    "The Sipe market is ridiculous right now"
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  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They are clearly Maytag repairmen.


  • << <i>

    image >>



    The boy starting at the camera looks like a young Alan Ruck, who later played Cameron Fryne in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, among other things. So that makes it a hollyhood staged photo. Ruck is not that old.

    image











    image
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
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  • MooseDogMooseDog Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Might they have something to do with the flyers that the fans are trying to get signed? Reps from the advertiser on the flyer? >>



    Nathan, for those of who are unfortunately old enough to remember such things, those papers that the fans are waving at Banks are score cards, which in the 1960s were probably 15 cents. The Cubs were one of the last holdouts to still sell these things when every other team had long gone to the magazine style game program. The two pages inside had the grid where you could keep score, the back had usually an Oscar Mayer hot dog ad. The cover changed usually only once a year and was a colorful abstact of a baseball player. Well, if it was the 1960s then maybe the artist was on acid.
  • 69Cubs69Cubs Posts: 150 ✭✭
    Graig,

    My Dad grew up near Wrigley Field during that time(50's and 60's) and I decided to give him a call.

    They are definitely not ushers(called Andy Frain at Wrigley) because they always wore dark blue pants and white shirts. They are probably not soldiers because they would have some sort of marking on their hat or thier jacket. My Dad was in the Air Force around that time and he said that the Army and the Air Force didn't even have jackets.

    The bus drivers always wore darker colors and the milkmen always wore white or just there street clothes at that time.

    There's a possibility they could be gas station attendants. They had the hat and a uniform back then, it's hard to imagine.

    You could probably get an idea what year it was by looking at the back of the kids programs in the picture and matching it with possible auctions that are listing Cubs programs.

    I hope that helps a little.

    Mike
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It's the International Milkman's Union...making illegitimate children since 1912. >>



    Funny, that was my first thought, milkman!!image
  • 69Cubs69Cubs Posts: 150 ✭✭
    Graig,

    I have a 1965 and a 1967 Cubs scorecard and the back of the scorecards are identical with the kids scorecards in the picture with the exception of the beer bottle on the right. My scorecards have either a Budweiser or Old Style label on the bottle and it appears the bottle in the picture is something else, possibly Schlitz. I can't beleive the Cubs couldn't even change the design of the back of the scorecard from 1965 to 1967.

    Mike
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What about grounds crew?

    mike
    Mike
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭


    << <i>What about grounds crew?

    mike >>



    The most logical, and probably correct, answer to this mystery.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • fur72fur72 Posts: 2,348 ✭✭
    Look like milkmen uniforms, classic picture though, thanks for sharing. Look at those kids, thats what the sport and hobby are all about! Sometimes I think we forget that.
  • Hey guys!

    Thanks so much for all of the awesome answers (especially the funny ones)!!

    Mike, thank you so much for calling your father - I really appreciate you taking the time to help out. I think that they might indeed be grounds crew man. I think I'll have to go searching for some color shots of Wrigley from that period, and check out if I can find any grounds crew people. Maybe 'When it Was a Game' has some choice shots...

    Graig

    PS - Mike, is there any chance you'd be willing to scan the back of the scorecard? I would love to see it!
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭
    Yes. The men look comfortable in their surrounds, as if they've been there before. None of them is enamored over the fact that they are in the dugout at Wrigley and that E. Banks is a mere feet away.

    They obviously belong where they are.

    Grounds crew is a most logical answer.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • 69Cubs69Cubs Posts: 150 ✭✭
    Just looked in a Cub book and there's a 1960 photo of Cub Don Cardwell trying to leave the field after throwing a no hitter. He's mobbed by about 40-50 fans near the Cub dugout and it shows a handful of Andy Frains(ushers) dressed in white shirts trying to escort him. Right in front of the Cub dugout are 2 guys standing casually dressed exactly like those guys in the other photo. One has the same hat on which is somewhat obscured by a Cub player and the other one doesn't have the hat but he has the same jacket and shirt on. They have to be groundskeepers.

    Right now, I don't have a camera good enough to take great scans. Graig, if you like I can PM you the book title and page# and any other information you need.

    Guys I do have a life, but I called in sick today and my wife is at work and my son is at school and not to mention I'm a big Cubs fan.

    Mike
  • Not to beat a dead horse, but since I'm about to start this painting, I thought I would ask. Might anyone have any idea what colors the ads on the scorecards may be? I've been looking on eBay for some from the mid to late 60s, but have had no luck...

    Obi Wan...I mean, Mike, you're my only hope...

    Thanks,

    Graig
  • ElemenopeoElemenopeo Posts: 2,577 ✭✭
    Here's the back of a scorecard from 1978... It looks to have some of the same elements. Hope it helps.


    image
  • That certainly helps a bit - thank you so much!!

    Graig
  • 69Cubs69Cubs Posts: 150 ✭✭
    Graig,

    The scan of the 1978 scorecard is great. The hot dog and the frosy malt is identical to the 1965 program but the Old Style and especially the Coke cup is different. My wife is buying a scanner for my birthday in about 3 weeks but right now I don't have anything that can give you the vivid colors similiar to the 1978 scan. Do you live in the Chicagoland area?

    Mike
  • Mike,

    I think you're right regarding those elements, and if I'm not mistaken, the beer bottle in my photo is Schlitz (if memory serves me, their logo was red). Hopefully, I can get the color of the scorecards border right as well.

    Unfortunately, I don't live too close to Chicago, as I'm here freezing in New York, about a half hour out of the city. However, if you are getting a scanner and are willing to take the time to do it, I am MORE than willing to wait.

    Graig
  • Mike,

    Any chance of getting me the name or ISBN of that Cubs book you were talking about?

    Thanks,

    Graig
  • 69Cubs69Cubs Posts: 150 ✭✭
    Graig, sent the information to your e-mail address.

    Mike
  • ripkenintheminorsripkenintheminors Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭
    Good 'ole Ernie. I was hoping to get to Wrigley over the next week but it's not to be. I can't wait to see his statue in person.
  • 69Cubs69Cubs Posts: 150 ✭✭
    I'm looking forward to seeing the statue also, they say the pose of the Ernie Banks statue is from his 1969 Topps card.

    Mike
  • metalmikemetalmike Posts: 2,152 ✭✭
    I think they are a ROTC/officers canadate (sic) type. Future officers? The hats look like the one I wore back in 1977.
    USN 1977-1987 * ALL cards are commons unless auto'd. Buying Britneycards. NWO for life.
  • mccardguy1mccardguy1 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭
    I used to work for the Cubs in the front office during most of the 80's. I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt those are grounds crew sitting in the dugout.

    Looking at the programs the kids are holding brings back fond memories of summer days...smokey links, watered down Pepsi and Frosty Malts. You cannot ask for a better day in a kids life than a few autographs and a sunny day at Wrigley. "Dad can I get a hot dog?" "Dad can I get a Frosty Malt?" "Dad can I get a pennant?". I was never prouder than when I was working for the Cubs that I could get my dad some great seats each weekend and ask my dad "Dad can I get you a hot dog?" "Dad you want a Frosty Malt?" "Dad You want a pennant?"

    I miss those days and I miss him too! But what memories we made together!!!!
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  • Wow, guys, thanks so much for all of that information!

    Though I agree with the groundscrew claim, especially since it makes the most sense, I still find myself wondering what color those uniforms are. I mean, my gut reaction says that they're white, but they just seem to be of a darker hue. I know that they're sitting in the shadow of the dugout, but it seems like it's still too dark to be pristine white. Hopefully, my newest lead (thanks again, Mike!) will offer the answer...
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