Question/Comments about Wiley and Bugert variety attribution

sturmgrenadier

Hi. According to its website, PCGS is currently in the midst of expanding its variety attribution services. What I don't understand is why they won't attribute Wiley and Bugert varieties for the Seated Liberty Half Dollar. There is a robust demand for attribution of these varieties and they are well-researched, being clearly documented in famous, reference works (especially those authored by the namesakes of the varieties). PCGS is expanding to attribute Overton varieties, so why won't they also attribute Wiley and Bugert varieties? I tried asking their customer service by email, and I asked a PCGS representative at the Baltimore Coin Show last November, but the reply I receive is basically the same: an obnoxiously, unenlightening 'PCGS does not have any plans to attribute Wiley and Bugert varieties.' I'd really like to have the Wiley and Bugert varieties in some of my coins attributed, especially that for my 1875-S PCGS MS-64 Seated Liberty Half Dollar. I believe that ANACS will attribute Wiley and Bugert varieties, but my trusted dealer has advised me to leave my 1875-S Half unattributed in a PCGS slab (because its value, even attributed, would be much less in an ANACS slab. Pretty frustrating that PCGS won't do it. I'm a novice coin collector, but I thought that PCGS was supposed to be the best in:1) grading consistency and; 2) breadth of services offered.

pontiacinf

not a question that I can answer, but I do offer a big welcome to the boards

rgCoinGuy

sturmgrenadier

Thank you for the welcome, kind sir. Being a newcomer, it is nice to see that people are so friendly on this forum

Shamika

This would be an excellent question for the Q & A Forum.

DaveG

I'd say PCGS is just waiting for collector demand to grow.

Consider that the first edition of Overton came out in 1970 (I think) and they took a while to become widely popular.

At this point, how many people collect Seated halves by date and mintmark and how many of them care about WB varieties?

sturmgrenadier

There is a fanatical following/interest for Wiley and Bugert varieties among members of the Seated Liberty Club and such, but I recognize that it could be more accurately described as a niche rather than mainstream. I see your point, Dave, but can't the same be said for many of the other variety families on the PCGS list for expansion? With the possible exception of VAM's, what varieties do have bonafide mass appeal? The decision about which varieties to attribute and which not doesn't make much sense to me. But, I'm sure there are smarter people working at PCGS who must know better than me....

Barndog

any chance the decision is related to the relative scarcity of the Wiley-Bugert book? Those things bring over $300 these days, no?

Athena

<< <i>any chance the decision is related to the relative scarcity of the Wiley-Bugert book? Those things bring over $300 these days, no? >>



I went to a coin show last year and saw one offered for $400!!!

MrHalfDime

I have no idea what decisions may or may not have been made by PCGS regarding attributions of Wiley/Bugert Seated halves, but if their W/B attributions are as inaccurate and inconsistent as their Sheldon, Overton, Valentine, Browning and others, perhaps you are better off without them. The attributions by any of the TPG's have historically been terrible, as seen in some of the recent collections of Jules Reiver, William Harmon and others. Collectors are advised to make their own attributions to ensure accuracy. I recognize that collectors who like their coins in plastic may not like hearing this, but having no TPG attribution at all is far better than having the wrong attribution 'permanently' listed on the insert.

Southcounty

It looks like PCGS is going to finally start attributing the WB numbers. Although at this point I would almost wonder why not wait until Bill Bugert finishes his new die marriage books and attribute them all by the new die marriage listings? It will be interesting to see how popular this option will become.

RWB

Bill's work is top notch and should become the standard as each volume is issued.

COALPORTER

Then they would need to keep the Briggs and Valantine fans happy too.
At some point they would need to change thier name to PCG & AS - the main function is to tell us the grade?

RichieURich

<< <i>It looks like PCGS is going to finally start attributing the WB numbers. Although at this point I would almost wonder why not wait until Bill Bugert finishes his new die marriage books and attribute them all by the new die marriage listings? It will be interesting to see how popular this option will become. >>



I spoke with Bill recently and he stated that he had conversations with PCGS, and PCGS confirmed that they will soon be doing variety attribution by WB number.

The new die marriage books are great, but far fewer people have them than the original W-B book, and even fewer know the seated halves by die marriage. Therefore, I believe that PCGS has made the correct decision to use the WB numbers from the original W-B book.

Caleb

<< <i>I have no idea what decisions may or may not have been made by PCGS regarding attributions of Wiley/Bugert Seated halves, but if their W/B attributions are as inaccurate and inconsistent as their Sheldon, Overton, Valentine, Browning and others, perhaps you are better off without them. The attributions by any of the TPG's have historically been terrible, as seen in some of the recent collections of Jules Reiver, William Harmon and others. Collectors are advised to make their own attributions to ensure accuracy. I recognize that collectors who like their coins in plastic may not like hearing this, but having no TPG attribution at all is far better than having the wrong attribution 'permanently' listed on the insert. >>



Well said.