Pistrucci Waterloo medal... whatsit... thingy... doodad...

jonathanb

OK, this is clearly the design of the Pistrucci Waterloo medal (more info) (more info). Beyond that...

The entire design is incuse on these items. The outer half-inch is covered with a hard black wax, as is the entire reverse (except where missing or filled in with a lighter reddish wax). The design part is copper, and from the overall weight much be fairly thin. The "rim" (outer half-inch with black wax) is the highest part of the item, with the entire inner surface recessed relative to it.

Total diameter is about 6.5 inches (~165 mm). The design part is roughly 5.5 inches (~140 mm).

So... what is it?

As seen from the links above, the Waterloo medal was never struck. The only copies are electrotypes. Could this be a mold for producing electrotypes? Beats me. Maybe a mold for producing something else? Maybe not a mold at all, but someone was bored and simply wanted to reproduce the design? I have a feeling that the wax is a critical detail... too bad I don't know for what...

Anyone?

theboz11

That is a cliche' of the waterloo medal. Cool find , as most are rare to unique. This is a Victoria that I picked up last year.

Victoria cliche'

"CLICHES
Numismatic clichés are uniface impressions made from engraved dies. One sort is made by the engraver when he is carving a die. Since he is working on a negative image, he may want to see how the positive image will look. To do this he makes a puddle of molten tin or lead on his workbench and presses the unfinished die into it. In order to properly proportion human bodies, the die engravers customarily engraved nude figures into the die, then dug deeper to dress them.

The French kings did not allow the private striking of medals, so medal engravers who wanted to sell copies of their work began producing another sort of cliché. Using a machine called a clichoir they forced a soft medal (usually lead) into their completed dies, creating uniface medallions. These clichés were usually colored to imitate bronze.

The famous engraver Andrieu had a shop in Paris where clichés from his dies were sold. The individual impressions which were sold were mounted in more or less elaborate frames, but there were also sets made up of several clichés, mounted in cases, most of which have the outward appearance of being books. (Taken from: www.fortiter.napoleonicmedals.org). " This info taken from the Wiess site.

Particularly interesting examples of clichés, some 140 mm in diameter, can be found under Napoleonic Medals on the Ben Wiess collection web site

TwoKopeiki

Boz, fantastic information, Thank You!

jonathanb - those things get an 11 on my 10-point cool-o-meeter



<< <i>...In order to properly proportion human bodies, the die engravers customarily engraved nude figures into the die, then dug deeper to dress them. >>



Anyone else get a kick out of that practice?

farthing

Those are tooo cool!

I have one of the Pinches produced Waterloo medals - one of my favorite medals.

jonathanb

Thanks for the links, theboz11, but I must be missing something. These items are incuse. They can't be impressions from the dies, since the dies were also incuse. They could be impressions from earlier hubs, but it sounds like the Waterloo medal was produced without hubs. So if these are cliches, how where they produced?

theboz11

It is only incuse on the side that you are looking at. If the wax were removed, like the one I have, the other side shows like the medal. The sculptor made this from his mold I suspect. They are often made by the artist to see his work in medal before proceeding further. Cliche's and galvanos are the mold/die makers working product until the pieces go into production, Regardless of the final production means.

Omega

That is very !!!

jonathanb

<< <i>It is only incuse on the side that you are looking at. If the wax were removed, like the one I have, the other side shows like the medal. >>

Good guess, but unfortunately that's not the case. The reverse side has a piece of wax missing about halfway from the center to the rim in the 7:00 direction that happens to be right a the head of one of the figures. It is very rough on the raised side, not at all like a struck medal. The incuse side shows a head with excellent detail; the raised side shows little more than a head-sized lump...

theboz11

In that case , you have a Mold Galvano copper. Another type of electro plate process where a conducting powder is spread on the mold and a plating material is built up over a period of time.

here is a quick shot of my Pistrucci 1837 Victoria coronation Die Galvano in bronze

jonathanb

Aha! Yes, the reverse of your piece is just how mine looks like for the little bit that's revealed where the wax flaked away.

I love this board!

Is there any name for this other than a "mold galvano"? I punched that phrase into google to try to learn more, but it gives only two hits, both irrelevent.

Thanks!

theboz11

I found some info under Galvanic Processes. I'm Afraid there is little more than what I have Discussesd here. The Mold Galvanos, I believe are rarest amongnst the rare when compare to those made from the cut Die. Either way, you can imagine Pistucci presenting the piece to the queen or whomever for approval before striking.

jonathanb

Neat. I've got some reading to do now. Thanks!

rwyarmch

Here's an example of the mounted cliches that the Waterloo Committee issued in 1969.

jonathanb

Neat! Is there a story behind the production of the mounted pieces?