The Debbie Clemens web site is gone...she is as full of it as her husband!
Hoopster
Posts: 1,169
in Sports Talk
On the way home yesterday I was listening to what was on Debbie Clemens personal website. It was all related to fitness, being a mother and doing the right thing, and all about how hard work and determination the right way can achieve a high level of fitness.
It talked about how she was nervous when she found out she would be posing in swimwear for that Clemens poster. She said stuff like a mother of her age, now what is she going to do to look good? She talked about proper motivation, and HEALTHY habits to achieve the body she aspired for, enough to make her comfortable posing for a picture like that.
Of course, the one thing she left out for aspiring mothers to create the better body is to use HGH!
She was completely filled with crap on her whole site. It was so phony, and full of B.S. JUST LIKE HER HUSBAND!
And you know what? The website is no longer up. Go figure. Typical move by the Clemens B.S. machine.
This chick and Roger are made for each other. Two phony pieces of garbage.
I don't have any quotes to paste, and even though a million people heard it read word for word, I guess the people with blinders on will say, "unless you can provide the documentation, it doesn't mean it was there."
I don't care if there is enough on Clemens to go to jail...I prefer to spend more money to go after the violent criminals. But, with all this stuff, I am not sure how a sane person believes a word this guy says. The good thing is that most of America has not fallen for it all. A few idolizers will stick hard. Thats o.k. If they need him to fill a void in their life, I won't get in their way.
I wonder what Roger gave her for Valentines day yesterday? I could picture this big red heart that usually houses chocolates...only in this one were various viles and syringes!
It talked about how she was nervous when she found out she would be posing in swimwear for that Clemens poster. She said stuff like a mother of her age, now what is she going to do to look good? She talked about proper motivation, and HEALTHY habits to achieve the body she aspired for, enough to make her comfortable posing for a picture like that.
Of course, the one thing she left out for aspiring mothers to create the better body is to use HGH!
She was completely filled with crap on her whole site. It was so phony, and full of B.S. JUST LIKE HER HUSBAND!
And you know what? The website is no longer up. Go figure. Typical move by the Clemens B.S. machine.
This chick and Roger are made for each other. Two phony pieces of garbage.
I don't have any quotes to paste, and even though a million people heard it read word for word, I guess the people with blinders on will say, "unless you can provide the documentation, it doesn't mean it was there."
I don't care if there is enough on Clemens to go to jail...I prefer to spend more money to go after the violent criminals. But, with all this stuff, I am not sure how a sane person believes a word this guy says. The good thing is that most of America has not fallen for it all. A few idolizers will stick hard. Thats o.k. If they need him to fill a void in their life, I won't get in their way.
I wonder what Roger gave her for Valentines day yesterday? I could picture this big red heart that usually houses chocolates...only in this one were various viles and syringes!
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Roger should do the same, he can't talk his way out of the court of public opinion on this or do so by signing autographs, slapping people
on the back or posing for pictures. I wonder if he thought that the "charm" offensive he did with certain members of Congress was going
to help him in the hearings?
Which pieces of the testimony was key for you to have this stance against Clemens?
This is not an attack, just a curiousity.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
"The URL that you have typed in does not have a web site associated ...The URL you have requested does not have a web site associated with it. Please try typing www.domainname (with "www" in front) instead. ...
www.debbieclemens.com/ - 5k - Cached - Similar pages"
Click on the the "Cached," and from there what remains of the website will show up. You can then click on, "Baseballs & Buterflies Boutique" and then on "company info" and "contact us" and the like.
/s/ JackWESQ
also you can google wayback machine. and you pull up any site from years past. type in www.debbieclemens.com on the way back machine and her whole website will always be there.
<< <i>Hoopster, formally skinpinch,
Which pieces of the testimony was key for you to have this stance against Clemens?
This is not an attack, just a curiousity. >>
Deutschergeist,
Lets take this whole thing to the beginning.
Most MLB players are flat out ego maniacs. They feel superior to others, and they have been treated differently from other people ever since they showed their physical prowess as kids and young men. For the most part, the athlete is the 'king' of the school. With this type of treatment it is natural that their ego's are fed, and their sense of entitlement is fed. These guys are the best of the 'kings'!
From the very beginning of the steroids whispers, to a man, every player has denied taking steroids. When Rick Reilly questioned Sosa, denial. When Bonds was interviewed on 20/20, denial. This can be repeated for all the prominent guys who got busted, from Sheffield to Giambi, and even guys like Jerry Hairston whom I heard myself deny. This is the culture of the players union. We already know that the union is filled with liars as a result, becuase those guys are all users. They are counseled on their tight lipped responses.
It isn't just players. Every time you hear a manager questioned, they play stupid. Did you ever hear Dusty Baker get questioned about Bonds? Either he is a supremely dumb man, or he thinks we are. Tony Larussa! This guy defends McGwire to the grave. They all are questioned, and every one of them have not admitted that there is a problem, and now we know there is. So they too are tight lipped, or flat out liars. How about the SF ownership? Are they now getting themselves into hot water from when they denied every knowing anything about Bonds. We all have freakin eyes, and even the biggest moron would be able to tell that the body changes in the players is screaming use. Yet, they all deny.
In short, the MLB community has PROVEN that they are filled with liars! The question you should be asking, is why on earth should we start believing any of them now when their legacy is at stake????
This is only the tip of the iceberg. Look at how many guys were caught with just one supplier ratting them out.
ANDY PETTITE!!!! ANDY PETTITE!!!!
You and a few posters seem to base your entire case on Pettite's vague testimony that it is PROOF that McNamee is lying(and lying only about Clemens, but lets forget about Common Sense for a moment).
What makes you think Andy Pettite is different than the rest of the MLB culture described above. Why would you expect Pettite to be anything but vague when asked about Clemens? This is the culture of their responses forever. You can talk about his religion all you want, but we already know that he has been deceiptful by taking the stuff to begin with, and only came clean after pressed. Plus he doesn't have powerful friends
Do you actually think Pettite would completely tell everything he knows? Do you think he is going to go completely against the grain of the culture of his colleagues, spill the beans, and then be ostracized from their community? That is basically suicide. Rats are not treated well in any workplace...and he has to go back to them still!
Pettite said just enough to get him clear of any legal problems, and not enough to be ostracized by the community he has to go back to....a community that has shown time and time again that the way to deal with allegations is to....
1) Flat out lie and deny
2) If caught red handed, say you unknowingly took them, or took them only once. Or start coming up with any other way to lessen the truth.
Do you realize that these guys are very well counseled on what to say? That pie faced Donald Fehr is the biggest piece of garbage around.
Roger Clemens!!
He is a big as ego maniac there is in the world, and his legacy means EVERYTHING to him, and he is a self serving player who puts himself above his teammates and the game. He also has a great incentive to lie about his legacy.
He is a part of the lying community above too. McNamee spilled the beans, and he too was part of the community, but punishment and no fear of bieng ostracized allow him to tell exactly what he did. Clemens has FAR more incentive to lie, than McNamee...and we know that Clemens is the only guy on that list who is denying, while the others are starting to fall one by one.
There is no incentive at all to believe a guy like Clemens who epitomizes the lying culture of MLB, none.
Since there is no way his ego will allow him to admit to taking them unknowingly, or only once, he resorted to the goofy stuff about Pettite mis-remembering, and the nanny stuff. Then there is the whole thing with his wife. If I didn't know any other fact in this whole case, just that whole situation would be enough. She too is as part of the lying culture, BUT IT IS MUCH EASIER TO PUT THE FACTS ON HER case because she does not have a legacy at stake!@!@ She just looks stupid, and is a big fat liar too.
Your next question would be to why would he committ perjury? This is a combination of the big ego, but mostly stemming from the fact that the two people who could severely throw him under the bus, will not do it! His wife of course, and Pettite(who can't because he cannot afford to be a rat). He knows that Pettite can no longer change his tune, or he would perjur himself. That leaves him against McNamee! Clemens's legal team knows that if it comes down to word against word, that perjury would not be a realistic venue for congress to pursue, so he can continue to be a raving liar and try his hardest to save his legacy.
With the history of the lying community in MLB, the ego maniac that Clemens is, the motive that Clemens has to lie, the whole situation with his wife, the Clemens lies he has told like the party, the soft toss Pettite testimony, and the fact that McNamee is right on the others, it is a slam dunk that whatever McNamee is saying he did to Clemens, it is true.
Hoopster, you presented a well thought out argument and I do follow your logic here. After doing some more reading and some more thinking, I realize that most athletes are liars when it comes to PEDs. At the very least, what this circus of a case reveals is that someone is actually lying under oath. The two parties cannot both be right since there are direct contradictions.
No one will seek jail time, but Clemens did not win in the court of public opinion. The congressmen pressed Clemens enough where he could not just explain away how Debbie did the swim suit pose in 2002-03, yet saying that she took HGH in 1999/98. That was a good cornering of the congressmen.
I still don't know if he was at Canseco's party around 10 years ago or not, but he did back track the story so he either had amnesia or was lying there.
Clemens was one of the few in the Mitchell report that could challenge MacNamee. Since he was close to the Bush family, jail time would not a problem as he could easily be pardoned if he brought this case in front of Congress or the Supreme Court.
The problem I have with MacNamee is that he also had several inconsistencies. If he was truthful 100%, there should not be any inconsistency. The story would flow. For a person that had no incentive to lie, he sure did his share. But then again, perhaps MacNamee was trying not to say too much. He already put athletes' reputations in the toilet, maybe he thought there was no need to imprison them in addition to all this.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
I see your side of the argument, but I see the steroid culture in wrestling/baseball as something
that just became accepted.
Kind of like how everyone passes on the solid white line when getting past someone making
a left hand turn on a one way street. It's against the law, and will get you 3 points and a ticket if a cop
pulls you over, but everyone still seems to do it even though it is illegal.
Steroids and passing a solid white line are both illegal, but many do it to benefit themselves.
If you get caught, you'll have to pay the price.
And what would you do if someone didn't have proof on your injustices ? Would you risk losing
your job and do possible jail time just because you did something that seemed harmless at the time ?
I doubt you would just fess up.
Steroids was an acceptable part of the baseball culture. Was it wrong ? Yes, it was.
But the players got caught up in it. The owners and union turned a blind eye to it.
We should just forget about it, impliment tougher drug policies, and get on with the game.
My only problem with it all is that Hank Aaron was slapped in the face by baseball's culture.
That is disturbing to me. They cheated Hank, but no one should do jail time IMO.
Everybody seems to say that going into the recent past is not productive, and that it is time to just move on with harsher penalties.
That is a glorious thought! The only problem is that without exposing how great the problem is, and how MLB is completely filled with liars... Donald Fehr, the union, and MLB execs will not do ANYTHING towards implementing ANYTHING worthwhile. The players union will do everything they can to continue their culture, and they show it time and time again.
You get comments from roid freaks like Aaron Rowand saying he sees no purpose in a blood test, and that giving blood to a test may hinder their play.
The last time in Congress with McGwire and company, MLB came up with those slap in the wrist rules, and all the fans believed that since they now tested for steroids, that all the players are clean now! They totally neglected the fact that HGH was the premier drug of use.
And do you for a minute believe the results of Bud Selig's testing??? Unless there is a stringent third party tester, I don't believe the results that MLB produces is the truth. No way.
Edmund, of course nobody would fess up if there was no proof. That is exactly what the players have done. BUt they even deny when there is proof, and then they 'admit' to those phony UNKNOWINGLY and ONLY DID IT ONCE alibi's! Are we to believe that every player who has done this stuff only did it once, or did it unknowingly? That is what they will have us believe.
It is only in the last couple of months where players like Glenallen Hill are coming clean. Had there been no digging, he would not have come clean, and he would have continued to be part of the lying tight lipped culture that is MLB.
I already explained above why Clemens is lying, no need to add more to that. I don't know how anybody could believe that guy.
The funny thing is, Clemens is lying through his teeth, and the people asking him questions in Congress are also typically blatant self-serving liars. We have the phonies questioning the phonies...isn't that cute.
That's why the jist of the federalist papers was that man was evil, and there should be a system of checks and balances to
save man from his own corruption. However, who would oversee -- MLB ? Getting a fair overseer may be as simple
as asking Goldman Sachs to have the Arabs oversee their trading practices. I don't think it would be that simple, and in time,
someone would find out a way to buck the system anyway.
Yes, I believe Roger did steroids if Andy Pettite said he did. Yes, I believe Barry Bonds did steriods based on his
performance and body structure alone. And yes, I would possibly do HGH to make a living playing baseball if that
was the culture of the time. Then again, I may not do it if my abilities were good enough to make a decent living
playing baseball. That's why Bonds and Clemens have no excuse IMO, because they already had the talent to
make a nice living playing a great game.
guess i have blinders
"unless you can provide the documentation, it doesn't mean it was there."
never, ever did i phathom the day me and carew would be on the same page.
may whomever have mercy on your souls.
Hey stown--the book of Revelations is there for a reason!!