Things are not looking good for Clemens at the steroid hearings
Michigan
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in Sports Talk
Just my personal opinion reading a live blog from CNN.
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Think things aren't looking good for McNamee.
<< <i>I'm watching the streaming video and forming my own opinion.
Think things aren't looking good for McNamee.
Do you think Clemens should help OJ find the real killer?
You take your opinions from CNN?? Enough said......... I am watching this waste of government time today from start to finish. I have yet to see one shred of evidence that Roger Clemens took steroids. What i have seen is typical grandstanding by Congress people. Nothing new there. What i have seen so far is a consistent pattern of lying by Mr. Macnamee. If the Government plans on charging Roger Clemens with perjury, they are going to have a tough time with 12 jurors, by using Mr. Macnamee as their "star" witness.
I have counted so far 12 seperate lies by Mr. Macnamee and 2 for Mr. Clemens--for those keeping count.
Again, no one has brought forth ANY evidence that Roger Clemens took steroids.
p.s.
are you getting your news and opinions from FOX lol?
pot, kettle, black.
edit to add cummings just tore into clemens.. that was pretty harsh.
neither was Shoeless Joe Jackson. Plus, Bonds and Clemens were probably hall of fame worthy before
they juiced. If I was a voter, I would not vote in Bonds, Clemens, or Palmeiro, or anyone else who did this stuff.
I think the most important thing to do is to determine what to do with Roger and Barry's records, whether they
are worthy to remain in baseball. If I had a vote, I would say to remove all of Roger and Barry's stats after the
age of such and such, whether it's 36, 37, 38, or whatever.
mcnamee injected knoblauch with hgh. true.
mcnamee injected debbie with hgh. true.
mcnamee injected clemens with hgh....??? hmmm that pretty much is gonna be public opionion against clemens.
FREE ROCKET!
<< <i>Carew29, I agree that the evidence against Roger is not overwhelming. But here is what we do know:
1) There are two, not one, individuals claiming Roger has or admitted to using HGH. One of them is Clemens' "very good" friend by his own admission.
2) McNamee has declared that there were 3 MLB players that he injected with steroids and or HGH and two have confirmed, against their own interests, that such statements by McNamee are true. The question would remain should one believe that he is somehow fabricating this concerning ONLY Roger Clemens and for what possible reason? Especially in light of Petitte confirming at least the discussions.
3) Clemens has an incredible incentive to lie. He has defined is entire life by what he has done on the mound and seems very proud of his legacy, and rightly so if he is telling the truth. McNamee on the other hand has very little if any incentive to lie other than if one were to believe that he is incredibly spiteful toward Clemens for some reason.
While I would have a hard time sending Roger to jail for perjury if I were a juror, it doesn't mean that I believe him for one second. >>
Very, very well said baseball! On an issue like this, you have to put personal prejudices aside (like being a Clemens fan, etc) and look at the facts... plain and simple. Add the facts to the incentive issues you so tactfully pointed out above, and then add Clemen's unprecedented performance late in his carreer, and I believe that you easily have surpassed the burden of reasonable doubt. If you really look at this objectively, pretty much the only way Clemens is telling the truth would be if this is one of the biggest sports conspiracies to ever take place!
Now, that aside, I don't believe that he will do jail time. Purjury for public icons does not necessarily translate to jail time like it would most of us normal people. Hell, Bubba Clinton lied under oath and what did he get? Not even a slap on the wrist! However, I certainly feel strongly that Clemens deserves jail time... not only for juicing it up and lying under oath originally, but for how much this long, drawn-out fiasco is costing the American tax payer. Sure, those yahoos up on Capital Hill would probably just be sucking down a 3rd margarihta anyway, but I'm pretty sure they could... SHOULD be spending their time on more pressing matters. If Clemens would have just came out like a man and admitted his mistake right away, I lay odds that more praise would have been thrown his way than criticism. Now, you've wasted millions of dollars, people's valuable time... and to what avail? Pretty much every reasonable person on the planet still believes the guy juiced up! Thing is, he's in way too deep now so he has no option but to fight til the bitter end. A truly pathetic display if you ask me. Shame on you, Roger!
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The worst part is that Andy told the truth about Roger and his own use. Then Roger goes ahead and dismisses Andy as being incompetent
in his memory. Andy will answer to God with a clear conscience. I don't know if Roger even cares about that. Many people don't.
However, I think most people just want this mess to go away. I was suprised how the Republicans were favoring Clemens, and
the Democrats were not.
I should add that it is perfectly normal that Andy and Roger just may have two different recollections of history.
History (his-story) is always different in the eye of the beholder, so it is entirely possible that Andy and Roger
believe they are telling the truth. However, I will always tend to believe Andy before I believe Roger.
How could it be that McNamee is telling the truth about everyone else, but is lying about Roger Clemens?
Only the most homer idolizer could believe Clemens at this point.
Wait, I just read baseball's statements above...very nice. There really isn't much to add to that...that pretty much puts the nail on the head.
I do want to call out that moron from Indiana though. What a freakin idiot. Yelling at Mcnamee for tarnishing Clemens' reputation? This guy is a prime candidate to be dripping from the chin with Clemens man goo. Does he realize that Pettite is saying he did it too? Aren't McNamee's lies he is referring to about when he was protecting Clemens? Then he finally told the truth....the truth came out(his current words are not lies, only his words when he was protecting Clemens). So yes, McNamee was a liar...a liar who was protecting the truth before he came clean.
Now Knoblauch is in tears.
Didn't Clemens lie about that party? First he said he never went to it...now he changes his tune?
Clemens is basically tall on talent, and short on brains. Why would anyone listen to this blowhard anyway? He has always been self serving. He cares only about himself. He is not a team guy. Contrary to what he says, the HOF is at the top of his agenda.
CLemens positives. O.k. he gave millions to charity. That isn't that hard to do when you have many millions aside from that. All that pompus ass is worried about is that he is no longer able to ride into a press box and act like he is super man.
The man got greedy. Bonds got greedy. They couldn't leave well enough alone when they were already HOFers. They didn't need to do anything else! That is how stupid they are.
McNamee raped a woman, not Pettitte.
People keep saying that Rocket is a liar. Well, prove it.
Oh so and so said this or such and such said that.
You can't, you can only go by what you know of the people speaking.
One simple question to everyone.
Who would you rather have living next door to your family?
A rapist drug dealer or Roger Clemens?
well i shouldnt say evidence. but his best friend said he took them. while bonds trainer went to jail to defend him.
and his wife got injected in his bedroom by mcnamee when roger wasnt present? thats just weird to me. and he said (clemens)it did happen.
so his best friend took them. knoblach took them. and his wife took them. hmmm
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Why would Clemens flat out lie today and commit perjury (especially with 2 DOJ guys sitting right behind his lawyers)? I've heard everyone ask this question on the sports shows, but no one was able to answer it.
Call it ego, call it arrogance, what have you. It's obvious that he thinks his word is fact and these allegations will never be proven. Time will tell if his gamble on that is accurate or not, but as someone already stated, his rep is toast in the court of public opinion, and I'd say he has almost eclipsed Bonds as baseball's most notorious cheater at this point.
The better question to ask is why would Pettite commit perjury by collaborating McNamee's allegations that Roger used HGH. That makes far less sense than Roger lying.
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<< <i>Why would Clemens flat out lie today and commit perjury (especially with 2 DOJ guys sitting right behind his lawyers)? I've heard everyone ask this question on the sports shows, but no one was able to answer it. >>
I'm just hoping that all of us that listened to this krap , didn't miss-hear what Roger had to say. I'd hate to be accused of lying , if we did.
the union, to get off their duff and do something.
IMHO it should be a 3 year ban if caught using steriods.
What about Rogers absess??? Didn't the DR.s say anything about that?
Roger, fess up before you get any deeper.
my hotels
<< <i>stown your man crush on Clemens is obvious >>
No one else is standing up for the guy, so someone has to.
And please note, I have done so with respect and not resorted to name calling like others have. Making accusations of sucking another man's pee-pee is totally counter productive and just exposes aliases of their closet inhibitions.
FREE ROCKET!
It isn't lying to congress.
It isn't pitching inside to move hitters off the plate.
My thing with Clemens is that he threw at a guys head
intentionally. He could have killed Piazza. That is
the only thing that caused me to lose all respect for him.
<< <i>My thing with Clemens is that he threw at a guys head
intentionally. >>
Pretty much every pitcher in MLB history has thrown a brush back at one point or another.
Guess that means you have the same hatred for (including but not limited to) Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, and Nolan Ryan.
<< <i>
Guess that means you have the same hatred . >>
Never said hatred. Just said lost respect.
Much rather watch a player play the game hard and clean like
Cal Ripken, Kevin Youkilis, Andy Pettite, or Mariano Rivera, then
watch headhunters like Clemens and Gibson.
Steve
<< <i>I have already mis-remembered everything that was said.
Steve >>
Speaking of mis-remembered......
Go to www.bostondirtdogs.com
They do a funny take on misremembered.
<< <i>the testimony by knoblauch and pettite was very damning, >>
Did you read their actual testimony?
Seriously, have you or just you've heard what they said?
For example, someone on ESPN said that Pettitte said he went up to McNamee and said, "How come you don't give me some of the stuff that you gave Rocket."
Well, come to find out according to Pettitte's sworn statements, he doesn't remember ever saying that.
He said, she said, they all said...
I say sigh....
<< <i>That's not the truth stown and yes I read his complete statement which you conveniently omitted the conversation Pettitte had with McNamee. Nice try bub. >>
Huh?
Are you talking about the one when McNamee was extremely upset that Clemens wouldn't endorse his vitamin for free?
The same one where McNamee was bishing and moaning while Pettitte just listened to him vent?
worth posting on this thread as well. I'm with stown.
Gotta love Jack---edited for baseball
In the voice of Roger Clemens
Son, we live in a world that has fences, and those fences have to be guarded by men with gloves. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Senator Waxman?
I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Macnamee, and you curse me. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Macnamee's jail time, while tragic, probably will save lives.
And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves baseball as we know it. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at political parties, you want me on that field, you need me on that field. We use words like ERA, Walks, hit by pitch. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending our sport. You use them as a punchline.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very sport that I play, and then questions the manner in which I play it.
I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a bat, and stand at the plate. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
Ouuutttt!!!
Some questions still arise:
Did Debbie Clemens take HGH in 1999?
There was no conversation regarding steroids, just MacNamee venting about Clemens not promoting his vitamin for free. Pettitte was just listening and not being specific about how MacNamee used the word steroid in connection to Roger Clemens. MacNamee was spewing out a lot of things and Pettitte, as usual, cannot remember the details. You can't go against Clemens on something so vague, yet people think this is clear that Clemens juiced.
MacNamee getting angry that Pettitte brought up Clemens' alleged HGH use. This was the most damning "evidence," but it was still vague. Not enough to pin anyone.
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I love the Yankees, but Roger is an arrogant SOB.
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<< <i>I'm with stown. >>
Holy crap, the apocalypse is near.
Carew agrees with me.
Glad you are here. I can see how arrogance can make a person keep lying even though just coming clean like Pettitte and Giambi produce better results with public opinion.
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