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You buy insurance, but you don't get insurance...
digicat
Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
When you pay extra for a seller to send an item with insurance, but the item arrives (safely) w/o evidence of insurance, do you raise a fuss?
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IF USPS INS was promised/collected for.
If the INS was included in a FLAT S+H fee, you have no remedy.
Sellers can self-insure, provided they do NOT ala carte a fee for it.
They can also use CIA - private INS - BUT cannot ala carte the fee.
Oh, the insurance was optional, and I opted for it.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>The "fuss" might result in a refund of the ala carte INS amount.
IF USPS INS was promised/collected for.
If the INS was included in a FLAT S+H fee, you have no remedy.
Sellers can self-insure, provided they do NOT ala carte a fee for it.
They can also use CIA - private INS - BUT cannot ala carte the fee. >>
Could you point me toward the rule on eBay where that is stated?
One of the features of Auctiva is the ability to purchase insurance through them. I haven't used it because nobody has purchased insurance on any items lately, but I charge the $1.65 ala carte and buy my insurance through Auctiva.
<< <i> Oh, the insurance was optional, and I opted for it. >>
Then I would request the insurance money back. I have had success doing that in the past. One time, I was told insurance was mandatory. When it wasn't used, I requested, and received a refund for the insurance cost.
>
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One of the features of Auctiva is the ability to purchase insurance through them. I haven't used it because nobody has purchased insurance on any items lately, but I charge the $1.65 ala carte and buy my insurance through Auctiva."
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I will look for it.
Charging for insurance is fine, IF it is actually purchased from a third-party vendor.
The problem comes with charging for it ala carte, and "purchasing" it from YOURSELF.
That puts the seller in violation of ALL states' INS Regs; you must be licensed to
sell an INS policy.
Look at the 4SC model. They pay annual premiums. INS is included in the freight.
That is perfectly fine, because they are NOT collecting an ala carte fee for INS.
I offer "FREE" shipping. Everything is insured by me, or USPS/UPS, or CIA.
BUT, I collect NO ala carte fee.
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The issue comes up everday on the EBAY buyer board.
Some sellers simply forget to buy the INS, when they go
to the PO. They are happy to refund upon request.
SOME crooked sellers likely charge the fee with no intention
of buying the INS. They will still refund to avoid EBAY's wrath,
if they are confronted.
<< <i>The problem comes with charging for it ala carte, and "purchasing" it from YOURSELF. >>
So charging an ala carte fee for insurance and then purchasing the insurance through Auctiva is within the rules? The insurance with Auctiva is on a one-off basis. I do not get coverage for all of my sales, just the ones for which I purchase the insurance. In fact, if someone were to purchase insurance for one of my items, I would send the fee to Auctiva (instead of the USPS and all of their red tape) and then Auctiva would email the buyer an actual "policy" which is likely the equivalent of a certificate of insurance for the amount of their purchase.
A seller that I purchased insurance from used this feature one time and the email gave the policy information, a claims number and looked very nice. If I needed to make a claim, I fully believe it would have been much easier than dealing with the USPS.
Just my .02 and an attempt at clarification...
RIP GURU
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Sure.
You are purchasing that INS from a third-party (Auctiva).
It is likely USPS INS.
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4SC sends a slip with every package, explaining the CIA INS.
<< <i>I ship and insure through stamps dot com, and the insurance doesn't show. >>
do you state this clearly in your listings?
Should I push him for evidence?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Should I push him for evidence?
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I would turn him into Trust&Safety.
He is breaking the law.
He is allowed to use a "local insurance company," BUT he cannot
charge you a seperate fee for INS. To do so makes him an
unlicensed vendor of INS.
Hopefully, he is only charging an illegal fee, and is willing to
pay-out on any losses. BUT, that is not likely; he is probably
just stealing and would weasel out of any large claim.
EBAY is VERY familiar with the scam.
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NOTE: Again, there is nothing wrong with self-insuring or
using a private INS CO. The 4SC model is perfect; they
will file a claim with CIA if your stuff is lost............AND,
they do not charge an ala carte fee for the INS; that
fee is covered by their "S+H" charge.
I realized a long time ago that even if the buyer does not buy insurance and the item was lost /broken etc , they are still going to expect the seller to cover it and demand a refund for the item. so I bought a private CIA policy and include insurance on ever item I sell.
The flip side is you then get dinged with your shipping is high in your ebay star system even if it is reasonable because many ebay buyers feel that any charge over 41 cents is excessive and don't realize what the cost of shipping a card in a bubble mailer w cardboard protection and delivery confirmation costs.
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That is the easiest way to go.
Like your said, the only problem is that you cannot
solicit the extra fee from the buyer. You can include
it in the S+H, but if you get greedy you can get the
stars dinged.
If you divide the annual premium by the number of
items shipped, you can arrive at a decent cost and
just include it, OR you can eat some of it.
I do BINs and offer "FREE" Insured-S+H, so ALL of my
costs are built into the price.
Another very good scheme, if CIA is not an option, is
to throw a dollar in a jar for each item shipped. If you
have a loss, you can pay-out from the growing fund.
The CIA premium is very reasonable, though. And, it
also protects against fire/burglary etc.
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Auctiva is either using the USPS, or they have a "pass-through"
agreement with a private, third-party insurance carrier. Any
fee Auctiva makes for "vending" private INS is paid by the carrier
and NOT by the end-user.
ONLY licensed insurance companies and their licensed agents
can sell insurance at a menu fee.
Anything over $200, I just incorporate the insurance into the total shipping charge, as I will purchase it anyway even if the buyer does not and many buyers are already aware by now that insurance protects the seller, not the buyer.
For low-end auctions, where the insurance is only a buck or two, if the buyer adds the insurance cost to their payment, they are doing me a favor, as I will insure any package over $20 anyway. But as packcollector pointed out, many buyers will complain if you add the $1.65 to the shipping charge because it sounds high, since now you're talking about $5 for a single PSA card if you normally charge $3.00 to ship plus the cost of insurance.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>When you pay extra for a seller to send an item with insurance, but the item arrives (safely) w/o evidence of insurance, do you raise a fuss? >>
You have got to be kidding, right?
LOL, another reason sellers will be getting negs in May.
<< <i><< When you pay extra for a seller to send an item with insurance, but the item arrives (safely) w/o evidence of insurance, do you raise a fuss? >>
You have got to be kidding, right? >>
No. I truly can be that petty at times.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
FWIW I did pay out 1 time.
Charging 3.50 allows me to buy it if needed.
Steve