Tampa Bay Rays Run to 3rd place thread!

Goot · February 8, 2008 2:19PM

Laugh all you want you ignorant baseball "fans" but the Rays are up and coming and are getting ready to go to battle with 3 teams that pay their roster up to 7 times as much as the Rays. I believe Baseball Prospectus was quoted as saying something like this is going to be an above average team and it's also going to be the worst Rays team for AT LEAST the next five years. The changing of the guard is about to take place. I'm not saying World Series in 08. However, I am saying a .500 record this year and a possible push for the wildcard.

Since most probably are unaware of most players on the team, I'll provide the projected lineup with 2007 stats and age for some background info.....

1) Akinori Iwamura 2b- .285 BA, .359 OBP, 7 HR, 34 RBI, 12 SB, .975 Fielding % at THIRD base(GG winner Beltre posted a .958 Fielding %)- makes the move from 3rd to 2nd to make room for top prospect Longoria....turns 29 today

2) Carl Crawford LF- .315 BA, .355 OBP, 11 HRs, 80 RBI, 50 SB (1st in AL), He will open eyes this year. And rightfully so, considering he's been playing like this consistently for 3 years. 26 years old and beginning the ascent to his prime.

3) BJ Upton CF- .300 BA, .386 OBP, 24 HR, 82 RBI, 22 SB, Power numbers will improve since he is only 23.

4) Carlos Pena 1b- .282 BA, .411 OBP, 46 HR, 121 RBI, Doubt the numbers will be replicated but I'd be happy with .275, 30 HR, 100 RBI..... 30 years old

5) Rocco Baldelli RF- hasn't played for a long consistent period of time for quite a few years. If he can return to even just 80% of what he used to be, he'll be very good...26 years old

6) Jonny Gomes DH- .244 BA, 17 HR, 49 RBI in 107 games. Played last season with a shoulder injury and had surgery in the off season. Look for his 3rd place rookie of the year numbers to return....27

7) Longoria 3B- Combined stats for AA and AAA: .299 BA, .402 OBP, 26 HR, 95 RBI, Let's see if he lives up to the hype of a #1 prospect. I say, look out for Ryan Braun part deaux...22 years old

8) Dioner Navarro C- .227 BA, .286 OBP, 9 HR, 44 RBI, Only 24 years old and in his 4th season as a starting MLB catcher. I think we'll see improvement in his OBP.

9) Bartlett SS- .265 BA, .339 OBP, 5 HR, 23 SB. He's a fill in untill the system's #5 prospect Reid Brignac is called up but I think he'll do just fine....

Bench- Ben Zobrist SS/2B, Willie Aybar 3B/2B (if he can stop beating his wife and doing drugs), Joel Guzman 3B/1B/OF, Cliff Floyd RF/DH, Shawn Riggans C

SP- What has held us back the last couple of years, especially last year.

1) Kazmir- 13-9, 3.48 ERA, 239 K's= league leader, 1.379 WHIP.... evolution of a future CY Young continues. He turned 24 2 weeks ago....scary.

2) Shields - 12-8, 3.85 ERA, 1.1 WHIP, 184 K's=9th in league.... Kaz's running mate until the prospects get here, then to the BACK of the rotation after they get some seasoning. Yes, that's correct, the 9th leading strike out pitcher to the BACK of a rotation within the next 2-3 years....26 years old

3) Garza - 5-7, 3.65 ERA, 1.5 WHIP, should continue to get better in his 2nd full season in the majors.....24 years old.

The last two guys should be decent but both will likely become bullpen guys or traded once the onslaught of pitching in David Price, Jacob McGee, and Wade Davis SHOULD arrive by September ( If we don't see at least 2 of these guys don't get called up, we're on a roll or they're doing very bad).
4) Sonnanstine
5) Edwin Jackson - could possibly be demoted to the pen if his stuff doesn't look great right out of the gate and Niemann would move up to fill his spot. The problem with Jackson is that he is out of options so can not be sent down to the minors. It's success or off the team...

RP- JP Howell
RP- Trevor Miller
RP- Juan Salas
RP- Dan Wheeler
SU- AL Reyes - previoius closer who was very good and should be even better in a set up role.
CL- Troy Percival

This team and organization is full of potential. It always has had a top farm system, however nothing has come out of it due to poor ownership, poor coaching as well as poor player make up (elijah dukes, dewon brazelton, matt white). They will be playing for a new stadium, new fans, as well as a chance to finally earn some respect in a year that could show great promise and give hope for years to come.

Goot · February 8, 2008 2:35PM

And for more reading enjoyment....

From Peter Gammons' blog today:

Tampa Bay may not leap into the playoffs because the Red Sox, Yankees and Blue Jays can be three of the four or five best teams in the American League, but because of their offseason decisions and the ready supply of young pitchers they are on the brink of being really good. The first vital decision came during last season when B.J. Upton found his role in center field and rolled up 24 homers and an .894 OPS (highest of any player under the age of 26) and gave glimpses of legitimate stardom, emerging as Carlos Pena became the star player (and presence) for the Rays that many believed he would become. Then came the decision to make trades that would lighten Joe Maddon's firefighter role and deepened the pitching. Then came the acquisition of Jason Bartlett, a legitimate shortstop.

If Longoria is the 30-home run third baseman many predict he will become, catcher Dioner Navarro fulfills Maddon's expectations and Rocco Baldelli can at least DH, then the team in the field will be extremely competitive (David Pinto figures they will be up to nearly 5.5 runs per game, roughly the equivalent of the Tigers in 2008). Now with Troy Percival, Dan Wheeler and Al Reyes in the bullpen, there is maturity and responsibility to preserve what Scott Kazmir, James Shields and Matt Garza start. Maddon will look at Edwin Jackson, Andy Sonnanstine, Jason Hammel and Jeff Niemann at the end of the rotation, but it won't be long until Price, Jake McGee and Wade Davis -- all top 25 prospects -- will be knocking on the door.

Can the Rays catch the Yankees and Red Sox and keep their players? The answers will come, in time, but this is the year Tampa Bay will go into spring training considered far superior to the rebuilding Orioles and with none of the big-market teams wanting to play them.

softparade · February 8, 2008 2:41PM

<< Can the Rays catch the Yankees and Red Sox and keep their players? The answers will come, in time, but this is the year Tampa Bay will go into spring training considered far superior to the rebuilding Orioles and with none of the big-market teams wanting to play them. >>

Peter Gammons gets too carried away .... maybe its cabin fever and he can't wait for pitchers and catchers. Come on now, the above comment is just stupid. The "big market" teams he refers to are obviously the Yankees and Red Sox and neither one of those two teams can care less who they play let alone "not wanting" to play some pre season over hyped up and coming team. I can assure you that neither the Yankees nor Red Sox are shaking in their boots and the D-Ray starting staff aside from Mr. Kasmir is still below average at best and that kind of pitching will get pummeled in the end. Not trying to pee all over the D-Rays but lets be real ....

Ahhhhhhhh ..... the eternal optimism of Spring friggen training !!!!!

Goot · February 8, 2008 10:46PM

<< 

<< Can the Rays catch the Yankees and Red Sox and keep their players? The answers will come, in time, but this is the year Tampa Bay will go into spring training considered far superior to the rebuilding Orioles and with none of the big-market teams wanting to play them. >>

Peter Gammons gets too carried away .... maybe its cabin fever and he can't wait for pitchers and catchers. Come on now, the above comment is just stupid. The "big market" teams he refers to are obviously the Yankees and Red Sox and neither one of those two teams can care less who they play let alone "not wanting" to play some pre season over hyped up and coming team. I can assure you that neither the Yankees nor Red Sox are shaking in their boots and the D-Ray starting staff aside from Mr. Kasmir is still below average at best and that kind of pitching will get pummeled in the end. Not trying to pee all over the D-Rays but lets be real ....

Ahhhhhhhh ..... the eternal optimism of Spring friggen training !!!!!

>>

I'm overly optimistic for this year? I put 3rd place as my goal and a .500 record as attainable. I never stated anything such as, "watch out Yankees, we're gonna sweep you and take the division". Nothing I have said is off base and will be backed up by almost any leading publication as well as analyst out there.

As for the pitching staff comment, are you serious?! James Shields is a solid pitcher. A 1.1 WHIP and 9th in the AL in strikeouts last year. Not to mention that was his first full year in the majors. I understand he pitched poorly vs. the Yanks, going 0-2 with like 12 earned runs in just 8 innnings or something riduculous, I can't remember, but he'll only face you guys a few times a year. Matt Garza's W-L record is misleading for the former top 10 Twins prospect. A sub 4 ERA, although he has an above average WHIP but just remember that was also his first season in the major leagues and is 24 years old. Added experience and maturity will be on these guys side this year.

When it comes to the 4 and 5 starters, I couldn't agree more. Jeff Niemann should hopefully prove solid after doing pretty well in AAA Durham last year. Edwin Jackson also had a horrible first half to last year, then made adjustments and came back with confidence and I believe, 2 hit the Tigers in Detroit towards the end. Andy Sonnanstine has decent stuff, but is overall an innings eater. Jason Hammel is decent at times but loses control and gives up too many 3-1 type counts.

HOWEVER, we may not see them all this year, but the 3 guys that will provide this team with added depth and one of the best rotations in the AL, are David Price, Jacob McGee, and Wade Davis. Price sat out after he was drafted so should be well rested after coming off a college season that saw him carry his team to a #1 ranking.

From Fox Sports......

"The addition of Garza gives the Rays three potential frontline starters all under 27 and all under team control for at least three seasons, a trio many teams would envy.

The question is how big the dropoff will be to the last two spots, whether it's the incumbents listed above or challengers RHP Jason Hammel, LHP J.P Howell and RHP Jeff Niemann."

I don't want to hear you talk about how over hyped our staff is considering your favorite teams are in the center of all hype that surrounds baseball. Laugh all you want, but we have the same number of rings since 2000 while the Sawx have 2.

softparade · February 8, 2008 11:21PM

<< I'm overly optimistic for this year? I put 3rd place as my goal and a .500 record as attainable. I never stated anything such as, "watch out Yankees, we're gonna sweep you and take the division". Nothing I have said is off base and will be backed up by almost any leading publication as well as analyst out there. >>

Ummmmmm ..... Did you even read my post before flipping out ? I said PETER GAMMONS was getting carried away.

<< I never stated anything such as, "watch out Yankees, we're gonna sweep you and take the division" >>

Would you please show me where I can be quoted as saying this?

Again, your reading skills are poor as I was commenting about PETER GAMMONS saying "and with none of the big-market teams wanting to play them".

<< I don't want to hear you talk about how over hyped our staff is considering your favorite teams are in the center of all hype that surrounds baseball. Laugh all you want, but we have the same number of rings since 2000 while the Sawx have 2.

>>

I will talk all I want about how Peter Gammons is WAY over hyping what is a team with sub par pitching after Scott Kasmir.

Also, its pretty comical that a Tampa Bay Rays fan is knocking a Yankee fan about how many rings they have won recently. Goot, shove it up the ol backside will ya?..... and do me a favor and learn how to read and COMPREHEND words before flying off the handle

Goot · February 9, 2008 12:58AM

Don't talk to me about reading comprehension, I understood what you were saying perfectly fine. I also didn't "flly off the handle" either, I rarely lose my temper or get upset. However, this statement is what made me think that you meant that I was the one over hyping the team as well as Gammons. I mean, why would Gammons try and be optimistic about the Rays? He's a Red Sox fan. That's what made me think that you were attacking what I was saying.

<< Ahhhhhhhh ..... the eternal optimism of Spring friggen training !!!!!

>>

Sorry for the confusion there. I do agree that Gammons was a little over the top with that statement. However, my response was directed at the line above.

About the comment regarding the rings, you play for the ring, and with your payroll you have no excuse as to why you can't win 1 in an 8 year span. Don't be a Notre Dame fan and say "oh man, we won it in 88, 77, and a bunch of times before that. Who cares if we haven't won a bowl game since 1993, we have more titles than anyone else!"

Again sorry for the confusion, the last thing I want to do is make enemies on this board.

onlyanumber · February 9, 2008 1:13AM

Tampa was smart in dumping Dukes and Delmon Young. Too many off the field problems (and on the field problems) with those two. If Baldelli can get back to what he was; If they can put some offense together for Kazmir, Shields and Garza; if some of the other prospects live up to their potential...they could be a .500 team. Right now I think they'll be okay out of the gate, but come June it'll be over...Just pray they don't sell off any of their young talent.

Goot · February 9, 2008 1:15AM

<< Tampa was smart in dumping Dukes and Delmon Young. Too many off the field problems (and on the field problems) with those two. If Baldelli can get back to what he was; If they can put some offense together for Kazmir, Shields and Garza; if some of the other prospects live up to their potential...they could be a .500 team. Right now I think they'll be okay out of the gate, but come June it'll be over...Just pray they don't sell off any of their young talent. >>

Exactly. By the way, I'm getting a display for the Crawford bat. Thanks again, it's probably one of my favorite things I own!

softparade · February 9, 2008 1:40AM

Well Goot, you did fly off the handle as my entire post was directed at what Peter Gammons was saying. If nothing else it shows your passion for the Devil Rays..... which is a good thing. Good for you. I will refrain from commenting or having the gall to express my opinion again in this Rays love fest thread.

Enjoy and Good Luck

EDITED to say that .... no, I had no idea you were just a 16 year old. My apologies and good luck to your Devil Rays

And Goot, YOU DON'T DISCOUNT championships won in the past. EVER. We have Sox fans around here who mention their 1918 World Series win in a sig. Championships never become absolete and meaningless. You will understand that as you get older and if you ever experience one ... you will never forget and cherish it for as long as you shall live!

80sToyguy · February 9, 2008 2:13AM

I agree that the Rays will be much improved, but .500 is a long shot simply because the Blue Jays "should" be much better than last year, and the Rays have to play the Jays, Yanks and Sox nearly 60 times. That's just too many games against very strong teams. I will say the Rays 1-2 starting pitchers are in the top 3rd in all of baseball, Kazmir is going to be unreal, perhaps as early as this year. As well, BJ Upton is a legit stud in the same vein as a Vlad Guerrero. "IF" Baldelli and Gomes can actually play 140 games each they will be better but again, this is going to be a stronger division than even last year.
No expert can predict who is going to win this division, I don't think anyone is really giving the Jays enough recognition and it's too early to see how the young pitchers on the Yanks staff will perform (although I'm betting if they come out of the gate poorly they'll go after some arms somewhere else). This could be the best division in all of baseball even with the pourous Orioles although again, because the teams have to beat up on each other so much, it's going to be tough to see 4 teams over .500.
Should be fun,
Jay

BobaFett72 · February 9, 2008 2:43AM

lotta injury concerns for Baldelli and Gomes. but they do have good young talent. The aquisition of Garza may pay off... Delmon young was the real deal though. multi-tool talent. Shields and Kazmir are solid pitchers; on a better team Kazmir might win 18 games.

Mercury10c · February 9, 2008 3:34AM

<< The changing of the guard is about to take place. I'm not saying World Series in 08. However, I am saying a .500 record this year and a possible push for the wildcard as early as next year. >>

Estil · February 9, 2008 4:44AM

If I recall correctly, there was a certain other expansion team that was considered a joke for its first seven years (in fact, it finished last or next to last in the league every year), but then in its eighth year won the whole shebang. I'm refering of course to the Mets.

So who knows? In the famous words of Tommy Lasorda, if they can do it, the Rays can maybe do it too. After all, stranger things have happened in sports.

Darin · February 9, 2008 5:02AM

Nice oversize sigline pic battle going between softparade and mercury. How about just hanging those pics on your walls, guys?

perkdog · February 9, 2008 5:30AM

Goot- you gotta understand that you are in the "MENS department" of the Sports talk forums when you sling baseball talk! If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen!!! LOL ( Kinda giving you a hard time here in fun )

I like the Rays, Shields is a great pitcher to go alongside Kazmir and the lineup is a young brash bunch of guys with the sky being the limit-IE: Upton, Crawford ect..Too bad Delmon Young got traded, I think he could be something special if he learns to control his temper.. you guys will make some noise this year but you lack depth in the pitching and I highly doubt Haverhill Mass own Carlos Pena will top his numbers ever again but who knows? You might have another guy with the sky being the limit type ability..

Good luck with your Rays Goot! And have fun here!

bigfische · February 9, 2008 7:43AM

I do think 3rd is attainable. I hope everyone here gives you your props when they are competitive this year.

perkdog · February 9, 2008 9:12AM

<< I do think 3rd is attainable. I hope everyone here gives you your props when they are competitive this year. >>

I will give him props regardless if they finish 1st or 2nd even! As a matter of fact I would LOVE to see them finish second in the division- to the Sox ofcourse!

Goot · October 19, 2008 1:20PM

This guy's a friggin genius.

p.s.- ignore my dumbassness (is it a word?), there's a big difference in the level of maturity of a brand new 17 year old and a more seasoned 17 3/4 year old.

ctsoxfan · October 19, 2008 1:23PM

Wow. Nice job, goot!

stevek · October 19, 2008 1:24PM

Nice call

softparade · October 19, 2008 1:24PM

HELL YEAH GOOT!

I have thouroughly enjoyed being made the fool!

GREAT JOB AND GOOD LUCK IN THE SERIES !!!!!!

softparade · October 19, 2008 1:29PM

Hey Goot,

The last post I made in this thread back in February holds some pretty good material

JackWESQ · October 19, 2008 1:30PM

<< I'm not saying World Series in 08. >>

Apparently, you SHOULD have been saying World Series all along. Congratulations. Goot, I couldn't be happier for you and the Rays. (No seriously, not 1% of sarcasm intended.) I wish the Rays best of luck. And for the first time in years, I will be watching the World Series.

/s/ JackWESQ

Goot · October 19, 2008 1:38PM

<< 

<< The changing of the guard is about to take place. I'm not saying World Series in 08. However, I am saying a .500 record this year and a possible push for the wildcard as early as next year. >>

>>

Right back at ya

Man, this is fun.

(one more for good measure)

Goot · October 19, 2008 1:47PM

Well, I was obviously wrong about maybe challenging for the wilcard this year, but I can live with that.

However, I was correct about:

Longoria being the second coming of Ryan Braun's rookie season.
Pena hitting 30 HRs and 100 RBI (final stats 31,102)
Baldelli being quite good, even though he's a fraction of his former self.
Navarro improving tremendously.
Garza also improving a great deal.
David Price getting called up in September
new fans.......lots of them.

Wrong about:
Crawford having a huge season (fought injury all year)
Upton's power numbers exploding (almost had as many hr's in the playoffs as the regular season)
Jonny Gomes being good.....he sucks.
Brignac being called up for Bartlett......he was called up a few times but couldn't stick.
Joel Guzman being on the team.
Kaz making a run at the CY Young.
Shields moving to the back of the rotation in a few years (however, it's hard to say who will be where with the lineup of Garza, Kaz, Price and Shields)
Al Reyes having any impact at all.

Eh, not bad.

Connecticoin · October 19, 2008 8:49PM

<< Garza also improving a great deal.
>>

Ya think? Garza saved the Ray's ALCS ass!

ziggy29 · October 19, 2008 10:14PM

Reflecting on this thread, I expected the Rays to be considerably improved this year. The team is loaded with young talent and if even a few of them broke out, they would be a pretty decent team. I would have expected maybe 75-78 wins and fourth place -- in that division, and realistically a .500+ team in a different division. I didn't think they had a prayer of .500 in the AL East.

But not only are the Rays the AL champions, no one can call it fluke with a straight face. We can look at the playoffs this year and realize that any team in baseball can beat any other in a short series. Whoever gets the timely hitting and the better pitching can win a 5- to 7-game series. But any team that can play 162 games in THAT loaded division and win it is no fluke. If you can be on top in the AL East after 162 games, you are for real, case closed.

Congrats to the Rays and to Goot for the BMB prediction that almost everyone dismissed... that actually turned out to be an understatement.

bman90278 · October 19, 2008 10:57PM

<< This guy's a friggin genius. >>

No you are not Goot. I didn't see one prediction about David Price.

Just kidding, great Post Goot!

MeteoriteGuy · October 19, 2008 11:36PM

Props to Goot.

StopYurWhining · October 20, 2008 2:57AM

three cheers for GOOT....

"Jonny Gomes being good.....he sucks"

truer words have never been spoken my friend!

Estil · October 20, 2008 2:18PM

I guess it looks like Mr. Goot is getting the last laugh in this one.

"watch out Yankees, we're gonna sweep you and take the division"

I think you had it right the first time.

Estil · October 20, 2008 2:21PM

<< If I recall correctly, there was a certain other expansion team that was considered a joke for its first seven years (in fact, it finished last or next to last in the league every year), but then in its eighth year won the whole shebang. I'm refering of course to the Mets.

So who knows? In the famous words of Tommy Lasorda, if they can do it, the Rays can maybe do it too. After all, stranger things have happened in sports. >>

Wow, am I good or what?

The 2000s are most definetly the Decade of Underdogs.

WinPitcher · October 22, 2008 3:55AM

Goot regardless of what some idiot thinks around here many of us know that you have been following this team
for a few years now.

Good luck in the series to YOUR team.

Signed,

Likes a few teams too.

Steve

joestalin · October 22, 2008 4:33AM

MeteoriteGuy · October 22, 2008 4:45AM

Baseball could use a LOT of band wagons right now.

Tampa Bay Rays Run to 3rd place thread!

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