President Wilson Gold Dollar going up

dalbert

Anyone into medals? Heritage is offering a GOLD "Wilson Dollar" (HK-1031) in the February Long Beach show.

Linky Dink

coindeuce

I'll forecast a $30K hammerIt's likely this Stacks lot recycled


OOPS!! the Stacks lot is NGC-61!! At $85K it's a lot nicer than the NCS lot in Heritage!!



Edited to correct misinformation

DUIGUY

<< <i>I'll forecast a $30K hammer >>

dalbert

<< <i>I'll forecast a $30K hammer >>



Probably so. If I remember correctly, the last one sold at auction almost 16 years ago for $22,000. This one may be damaged, but who cares?!

jonathanb

The last one sold three weeks ago for $80,000, but in nicer condition.

I think the hammer for the Heritage piece will depend on how nasty the "mount removed" part looks in person. Based solely on the online pictures, I wouldn't be surprised if it went for $50,000 or more. I wouldn't even be surprised if it sold for $80,000 to someone who regretted not bidding higher in the Stack's sale...

tmot99

I agree with jonathan. I'd bet it goes over $30,000 even in this condition.

BECOKA

I like the reverse.

Why such a high price tag on these?

DUIGUY

<< <i>I like the reverse.

Why such a high price tag on these? >>




Low Pop.

BECOKA

<< <i>

<< <i>I like the reverse.

Why such a high price tag on these? >>




Low Pop. >>



That does not stop some of the modern commems from demanding a low price.

dalbert

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I like the reverse.

Why such a high price tag on these? >>



Low Pop. >>



That does not stop some of the modern commems from demanding a low price. >>



There were only 5 reported specimens ever struck. I heard of 2 more being trial strikes which look exactly the same though.

53BKid

Wow, great post, dalbert. Never saw one of these before.

Nowhere does it say $1. Also, Wilson was in office when this was minted.
Too bad this coin wasn't distributed.
Considering they released McKinley's in not only '03, but also 16, & 17, issuing one as nice as this for Wilson I'm sure would have been well received.

dalbert

Well, that's why its called the "so-called" dollar. Its technically a medal. Only 5 of these were reported to have been struck, with 1 being given to President Wilson, the other to the secretary of war and a few to other key people in the Philippine government (which was run by American rule anyway).

They did distribute the silver and bronze ones (well, they sold them actually) but never the gold. Heritage is also offering another silver Wilson medal. Try searching with the word "Wilson" for it and read the descriptions of both -- mintage figures are given in the descriptions if i remember correctly

DUIGUY

<< <i>Wow, great post, dalbert. Never saw one of these before.

Nowhere does it say $1. Also, Wilson was in office when this was minted.
Too bad this coin wasn't distributed.
Considering they released McKinley's in not only '03, but also 16, & 17, issuing one as nice as this for Wilson I'm sure would have been well received. >>




This "coin" was produced at the Mannilla mint in silver , WWII saw many dumped in the bay. Even the silver non dumped pieces demand a premium.

keets

it isn't a coin, it's a medal struck to commemorate the opening of the Manila Mint, the only U.S. Mint operated outside of the border of the United States. in that regard it's a fairly significant striking. add to that the fact that it also pays tribute to a sitting U.S. President, the design is rather attractive and there are perhaps five known to exist.

also, it is clearly not a "recycled lot" since they were both listed at the same time.

Scavenger

Mintage numbers- Silver - 2,200

Bronze 38mm plain edge - 3,700

Gold - 5

Wow, If you had one of the gold specimens it would be hard to let go of it. Probably never would get a chance to buy it back.

USAROK

At the monthly meeting of the Colorado Springs Coin Club we have time set aside for all our members to show interesting numismatic items and give a short talk about them. At the last meeting I brought a silver and a copper Wilson "So-called" to share and so I thought the images and and information might be of interest here too.




Here are two examples, HK-449 (Silver) and HK-450 (Copper), of the "So-called" dollar commonly known as the Wilson Dollar or Manila Mint Opening medal. These are United States Mint medals struck at the U.S. Mint in Manila, Philippine Islands on July 15, 1920 to commemorate its opening that day. The Manila Mint is the only U.S. Mint ever established at an overseas location and continued operating into December, 1941.

Clifford Hewitt, who installed the coining equipment at the mint and taught its operation to the Filipino mint staff, designed the medal while George Morgan of the Philadelphia mint prepared the dies.

Mintage of the medal was limited to 2,200 silver and 3,700 copper medals. However, combined NGC and ANACS population reports indicate that the copper version with 51 graded is rarer than the silver version which has had 116 graded. Five medals were reportedly struck in gold of which three are known to exist.
Many of these medals were lost or damaged when they were dumped into Caballo Bay off the island of Corregidor in 1942 to prevent their falling into Japanese hands during the invasion and occupation of the Philippine Islands. Because of this, the Wilson Dollar is much rarer than its mintage figures would indicate.

dalbert

<< <i>
Five medals were reportedly struck in gold of which three are known to exist.
>>



Where did you get this tad of information? Here are the CONFIRMED specimens in existence as far as I know

a) One belongs to Feliciano Belmonte, Jr, former President of the Philippine Numismatic and Antiquarian Society and mayor of Quezon City in the Philippines.
b) One in the Philippine Central Bank museum (saw this one with my own 2 eyes and its still there)
c) This one being offered by Heritage -- I know the owner of this one personally and he is based outside the US. In fact, I saw this one in person and got to hold it before it was sent to NCS. I know this isnt one of the two owned by the "d" entry below
d) Two owned by a private collector, not the same as the one above

*I have heard that there is one in the President Wilson Library or the Smithsonian. Can anyone confirm this? I'm not counting the one in the Stack's auction since I don't know its provenance, but I guarantee you there are more than 3 -- possibly even more than 5. Take note, there were five REPORTED to have been struck. The 1913 Liberty nickel has a reported number of 0 but there are 5 confirmed specimens

coindeuce

Dalbert - thank you for raising my awareness of the provenance and numbers of known examples of the H-K 1031. I believe that some of the misinformation presented here about the gold strikes may simply have resulted from paraphrasing the 1963 edition of H-K. I also happily own a duo of unimpaired unc. silver(H-K 449) and copper(H-K 450) strikes, and I have always believed that the copper examples are far more rare in survival than the silver.

USAROK

dalbert - Thanks for the update on the number of known gold Wilson "So-called" Dollars. I found "That tad of information" in an article titled "The mint of the Philippine Islands" by Gilbert S. Perez published in New York by the American Numismatic Society in 1921. It stated that 5 were reported struck but only three were known to exist at the time. I could not locate any information in more modern liturature regarding more than 3 known specimens so I went with the available information. I've personally only had the oportunity to look at one of the gold medals.

NonCents

If memory serves me correctly, Lyman Allen lists 5 struck with 3 known also. It's nice to hear that maybe all 5 examples are still around though.

dalbert

USAROK/NonCents - Thanks for pointing out the source of the info. Five specimens may have been struck, but like I said, the 1913 Liberty Nickel has 0 reported, but there are 5 specimens known.

I've heard stories that there were as many as 12 in existence. Besides the ones listed in my earlier post (5 of them already), there is the one that Stacks sold 3/4 weeks ago and, according to Heritage, one more that they were in talks with for an NGC MS63 that makes 7 specimens (unless I counted 1 or 2 twice which I doubt since the Central Bank, Belmonte and the private collector all still have theirs as far as I know). I have heard of 1 in the Smithsonian or the President Wilson Library so that could make 8 already if that's true.

I'm pretty confident that there are more than 5 in existence now

denga

USAROK February 02, 2008
These are United States Mint medals struck at the U.S. Mint in Manila, Philippine Islands on July 15, 1920 to commemorate its opening that day. The Manila Mint is the only U.S. Mint ever established at an overseas location and continued operating into December, 1941. Clifford Hewitt, who installed the coining equipment at the mint and taught its operation to the Filipino mint staff, designed the medal while George Morgan of the Philadelphia mint prepared the dies.

The reverse design, except for the coining press, was taken from the 1882 Assay Commission
medal. The obverse portrait is from the regular three-inch presidential medal series struck for
Wilson.The coining press is not on the 1882 medal and perhaps this is where Hewitt had the
most input into the design.

Denga

CaptHenway

Has anybody looked at the Heritage one to see how badly it was damaged, it at all?

dalbert

I saw it raw before it was sent to Heritage. I didn't notice a mount being removed. It did have light brushmarks on both sides by the way

hiijacker

Looks like it did not sell. WHat do you think this should have sold for assuming no reserve?

NonCents

I wonder how many of these are out there? LOL Gold Plated Wilson Dollar