New 8 Reale

ASUtodd

Well I purchases another 8 Reale the other day from my local dealer. I am begining the think that he needs some 8 reale training because I keep getting these cheap from him. I think he believes they are all counterfeits and infact (for those that may remember) he gave me a counterfeit one not too long ago. That one turned out to be a Sheffield Plated COunterfeit 8 Reale from England (actually was used in commerce and has numismatic value as a counterfeit). ANYWAYS.... here is a couple of pics of the new one. Maybe you can help me decide whether or not his one is real or coutnerfeit. I have posted this at another forum where a guy names Swamperbob (some of you may know him) will hopefully let me know his ideas.
This 8 Reale has a nice big chop mark right in the middle and then a small one on the edge. The weight is 25.1 grams (25.2 depending on the scale) and is approximately 39mm. The color of the coin is what concerns me. I know it isn't copper, well doesn't appear to be, but the coloring just looks off to be silver. The edges of the coin had the circle square design on them. The weight is a bit under what a 8 Reale should be but with being worn like it is and with a chunk missing it appears to be right on the mark for weight. The diameter is close to being correct and when I compare it to my known counterfeit I can see a uniformity in the overall thickness that isn't there in the counterfeit. I wish I could get better pics but these will have to do for now. Let me know your thoughts on whether you think this one is counterfeit or not. Either way I am glad to have it in my collection.
Todd

TwoKopeiki

It's a counterfeit But it looks like another contemporary one.

ASUtodd

Any ideas what it is made of? Doesn't appear to be copper and doesn't stick to a magnet.
Todd

TwoKopeiki

Hard to tell without performing specific gravity testing. I would lean towards copper.

coachleonard

looks to me like a very cool contemporary counterfeit-- Carolus seems to be smiling a little too much. I'm thinking it might be silvered brass, and it has that yellow-ish tone. There are brass counterfeits out there of the 2 reales also

ASUtodd

I figured it was counterfeit due to the color but for 10 bucks you can't beat it. I like the counterfeits because they were passed as money just like a real one, plus I can afford these!!! I like them for their history more than anything.
Todd

ASUtodd

UPDATE:
For those that know Swamperbob (another forum) he is a superb source of information on 8 Reale coins. Here is what he wote about my recent find!!!
ASUTodd - That is a Fantastic circulating contemporary counterfeit. It is not one of the cheap (worthless) Chinese coins. It shares a lot of similarities to the Riddell # 50 and it may be a closely related issue - perhaps made by the same group of forgers. There is a very close match with the lions on the reverse and the King has the same "odd" smirk on his face. I can not see clearly but does it read CAROLUS IV? Establishing a confirmed link would make the coin very valuable indeed. The ultimate method is an XRF test to compare impurities in the metal with known examples of the Riddell # 50.

The color is perfect in my opinion for a contemporary counterfeit high in copper content. Many of these locally produced copies were 10-60% silver alloyed with copper. They tend to GREEN with age and that is what I see here. The more copper the more green/yellow it gets

The weight is a bit LOW even with the chop (which is more like a cancellation cut in my opinion) and the wear. There is almost no way a coin in this condition should ever go under 25.5 grams (if it was real). The Riddell #50 was a full weight coin 27.0 grams but was only 0.150 fine silver which means it is very thick when compared to an original. That may be why it "feels" right. That hefty feeling was just what the forgers were shooting for. They also added a decent colonial edge because they knew a plain edge would get caught easily when coins were stacked.

As far as value goes, I would likely bid in the $150 to $200 range for a coin like this if the link to the Riddell # 50 can be established. The Portrait 8Rs listed in Riddell are far scarcer than the Cap and Rays and a new related variety is especially interesting.

Good hunting guy - congratulations on a super find!