Another two for identification - one is medieval

MadMuffin

Here's another two "mystery coins" of mine. Actually the first one isn't that much of a mystery: it's a conder token. I'm just asking for a catalog number and an approximate value for this one. I know that there is a catalog, but I don't have it and neither does my local library.



The second one is medieval and it's a junk box find. I have a hunch that it's French, but I'm not sure. I have made a negative image to help destinguish the details.
On the obverse it has a cross with letters in the angles. The reverse is some kind of animal, probably a bull or a cow with a crown above. I can read the word "PAX" at one o'clock.





As always your help is appreciated.

Marcel

DCH

I don't do medievals, but I think it's French feudal from Bearn late 1400s to early/mid 1500s. Legend may be PAX ET HONOR FORQUIE or some variation.

MadMuffin

Thanks for the tip. The legend is hard to read, but the last four letters could be FORQ. I remember seing coins from Bearn offered on Ebay frequently, so in case noone shows up with a 100% ID I might just keep an eye out for similar coins.

Marcel

coachleonard

I'm thinking the medieval one is actually Italian-- possibly Sicily (crowned bird I believe was used on those coins). Medieval denaros were more likely to be REALLY low-grade silver, virtually copper (much more so than French deniers), and that appears to be the case with this coin. I would date it 1300's-1400'ss

MadMuffin

You're right, it certainly is low grade silver.

But I'm quite sure about the cow / bull. If you look at the negative image the horns are visible. Can't be a bird

Marcel

TwoKopeiki

I don't have any Conder material, but was able to find the first piece on eBay listed as Wither's 781. It sold for under $5. Link

MadMuffin

Thanks. I wasn't expecting any great value, but at least I now have a catalog number

Marcel