Ok ID experts, here are two for you...

MadMuffin

I have a few coins in my collection that I can only partially ID or can't ID at all. I hope that you can help me with these two.

I have a partial ID on the first. I know it's Turkish and from the 1700s (the date appears to be 1187 = 1770AD). However, I don't have a 1700s Krause so what I need is a catalog number and a catalog value. I think the coin is a 2 zolota, in any case the diameter is 45 mm. Can anyone get me any closer?



The second is a small and thin copper coin, just 18mm diameter. I have no idea what it is, but I suspect that it's German. The person on the obverse appears to be a saint and the following can be read: QUOD PAUPERI MIHI. The reverse has some wheat stalks, the denomination ("1") and CENT UPL UM REDDO. For some years I thought that this coin was from the papal states, but it doesn't fit into their monetary system. It's too small and the design is too different. The image of the saint could indicate that it was issued in some Catholic state, perhaps a bishopric. It's quite worn and difficult to read so I have made a negative image as well.





Any help is appreciated!

Marcel

tbirde56

Marcel, the first is regnal year 14 which makes it 1787-88 I believe. AH1187=March 25, 1773 to March 14, 1774.

tbirde56

The second translates to something like 'A Fleet of a Hundred Ships ??? To Repeat' and 'And Poor Me'.

MadMuffin

Thanks Brad, as usual you are the first two answer a post like this

Do you have a catalog value and a KM number on the Turkish coin? It's pretty nice in hand with shiny fields and I don't think that it has circulated much. Probably and XF.

With your translation of the second coin I'm a little wiser. Perhaps it's some kind of token?

Marcel

Blackhawk

Something about the 1 in the second piece looks familiar.

Sapyx

#1: It's definitely Turkish (Constantinople mint), but there's a little problem with pinning this one down. It looks exactly like the pic of the 2 zolota KM# 402 - except that's only listed as being struck from Year 8 up to Year 12. A new design 2 zolota, KM# 403, was issued from Year 11 to Year 16.

The problem is, the pic for #403 doesn't match your coin - it shows a coin with a toughra. Your coin does, however, match this one on zeno.ru. I presume Krause simply got the pic for #403 wrong (you can't read the date on the pictured coin). The description for KM#406 includes a toughra, which the pic for #406 doesn't have, so I'd conclude that the pics for #403 and #406 are back to front. I'm using the Krause 3rd ed. 2002, if it makes any difference.

Assuming I'm correct, the CV for KM# 403 Year 14 is $15 in Fine, $27.50 in VF. By my calculations, 1187 Year 14 equates to AH 1200, or 1785/6 AD.

#2: I Googled "uplum reddo" and found this Google book, a German coin catalogue. The reference appears to be in the chapter on coins of the Archbishopric of Vienna, in Austrian States.

I found this one on CoinArchives, a 12 pfennig in the same series. It's listed as "Armenhausgeld" (poorhouse token), but I don't know if that's what it was issued as or turned into by the "1722" counterstamp.

Your "saint" is actually a portrait of Christ. I assume the reverse is an allusion to the parable of the sower, with the seed yielding a hundredfold return, which dovetails nicely with the poorhouse token theory. The 1700's Krause is predictably silent on the small change of the Archbishopric of Vienna, only listing the thalers and gold ducats, so I can't say for sure whether you've got a coin or token.

MadMuffin

Thank you very much! Sapyx, your information on the small coin sounds very interesting, and I will try to dig further into that. Even if Krause does not mention these coins it is possible that some Austrian book does.

I love this place

Marcel